Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 06.04.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 6 2018, 16:40

Templayer wrote:
Xfing wrote: a lot of numbers

I've read it, but the amount of numbers is staggering, and I came to see it in this light - As long as it: a) makes logical sense (if an armour looks visually better, it should be better) and b) there is a number divergence between the eras (MM678), I'm fine with it.


Yeah, that's the idea :P

Just put it somewhere in a more easily readable format, like a table or something. :D


That's what I did for all the weapons, and then Rodril overhauled them. I will do that alright, I just need a screenshot or a few with MM6's armors, as I don't really remember those all that well. A little help, anyone? :D

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 6 2018, 17:09

Xfing wrote:Yeah, that's the idea :P

I know. And if that is how it is in the final version, then I am fine with it. Renaming duplicites and such, of course.

Xfing wrote:That's what I did for all the weapons, and then Rodril overhauled them. I will do that alright, I just need a screenshot or a few with MM6's armors, as I don't really remember those all that well. A little help, anyone? :D


Nope. I just tried to google Mandate of Heaven Armours and in the images tab it has shown me Heroes V content. I hate Google. Ever since their algorithms started using popularity as a factor (or Stupidity factor in my opinion) it started to suck, and even with using context commands like "" and - it still does. It took me like half an hour to find out what the pictures represented here in this thread with repainted armours actually were.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 6 2018, 17:14

Ok then, I'll just open MM6, which I should have somewhere and get screenshots of these armors from there. Ehhhh

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby GrayFace » Oct 6 2018, 18:29

Xfing wrote:Well, all those change ideas are really cool, but personally I'm happy this merge has remained as vanilla as can be. If some serious, game-altering changes were to be implemented, it would probably be better if they were a separate, parallel release. Just so us purists can be happy too :P

It hasn't, e.g. it changes weapon damage in a major way and monsters' strength depends on party level. I personally like that it's a different experience, but gotta see how it plays out when I decide to play some more MM.

Templayer wrote:And the dragons in vanilla MM8? They are just broken. I made suggestions on how to fix them properly.

I think making their attack damage depend on skill expertise would be a good step. They're especially powerful before the party gets to GM skills, although they're themselves very fast at acquiring GM, because they have only 1 important skill. Reducing health would be right too. And I like your suggestions for a full makeover of them.
MM8 has too many shortcuts - dragons, lvl 50 hirelings (and that lvl 15 necromancer that gives you Town Portal ability immediately), artifacts in hidden chests.

Templayer wrote:For Rodril and Grayface - please give me your Google account names, so I can add you as editors.

Mine is sergroj, I've sent a request. Good job!

Templayer wrote:Or for bug tracking - tell me about the bug and I will write it down there. I have read every single post in this thread and from now on, I will track the reported bugs into the tracker, actively. I will however not go back the thread / remember stuff already reported, so it's going to be from now on.

For bug tracking a document isn't right. Making a GitHub page for the project is the way to go.

Templayer wrote:Anyway, there are three paperdoll types in MM8, correct? Normal, Minotaur, Troll? Or are there more?

Male, female, minotaur, troll.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 6 2018, 18:46

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:And the dragons in vanilla MM8? They are just broken. I made suggestions on how to fix them properly.

I think making their attack damage depend on skill expertise would be a good step. They're especially powerful before the party gets to GM skills, although they're themselves very fast at acquiring GM, because they have only 1 important skill. Reducing health would be right too. And I like your suggestions for a full makeover of them.
MM8 has too many shortcuts - dragons, lvl 50 hirelings (and that lvl 15 necromancer that gives you Town Portal ability immediately), artifacts in hidden chests.

Templayer wrote:For Rodril and Grayface - please give me your Google account names, so I can add you as editors.

Mine is sergroj, I've sent a request. Good job!

Templayer wrote:Or for bug tracking - tell me about the bug and I will write it down there. I have read every single post in this thread and from now on, I will track the reported bugs into the tracker, actively. I will however not go back the thread / remember stuff already reported, so it's going to be from now on.

For bug tracking a document isn't right. Making a GitHub page for the project is the way to go.

Templayer wrote:Anyway, there are three paperdoll types in MM8, correct? Normal, Minotaur, Troll? Or are there more?

Male, female, minotaur, troll.

Yay, Grayface-senpai noticed me! :oex: :hug:

Request accepted, some notes sent to the email (i.e. if you were to delete sections please tell me. I agree with the bug tracker section, though. I just want the situation when a person (was it xfing?) told me to delete the minotaur paperdoll sections for boots and helmets, even though the annotation there clearly states that if dwarves are fitted into the minotaur type of paperdolls... )

Well, since Google Docs only allows triple columns, we may have to simply put both female and male ones under normal. The formatting will screw up if it gets too long anyway, or over a page break, so...

Once a section starts to become full, please start using the red color on stuff that isn't done yet, so that people that want to repaint them will know immediately which ones are not.

I spent a whole goddamn day (I'm sick currently) making that Doc, formatting, going through the thread, googling up,... please be gentle. I do have multiple backups, though.

I also find it important for eventual painters to see the work that has been done, so that they would know what is expected from them to be done and to inspire them.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby GrayFace » Oct 6 2018, 19:29

dirty_nightmare wrote:and btw if anyone have problem with Init - Failed to create D3D device.
i found away to fix it

Press Win+R, type Regedit, locate the following key in it:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHNE/Software/New World Computing/Might and Magic Day of the Destroyer/1.0
Or on 64-bit versions of Windows:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHNE/Wow6432Node/New World Computing/Might and Magic Day of the Destroyer/1.0

and set use D3D to 0

That's the opposite of a fix. A fix is to set compatibility mode for mm8setup.exe to XP, then run the setup and choose Hardware 3D. If that doesn't work, download and install https://download.microsoft.com/download ... redist.exe
Compatibility mode for mm8.exe might also be required - either Windows 8 or Windows 7.

Templayer wrote:Dwarfs will be added eventually, as soon as somebody paints them to fit on one of the paperdoll types in MM8 (which is used as a base for the mod)

I though maybe minotaur paperdoll would be ok for them, but probably not and also they're male only.

Here's how you can do screenshots with any item: (after pressing Ctrl+F1 to open the console)

Code: Select all

evt[0].Add("Inventory", 2026)

Here 2026 is the item number. Converted armors are 1306,1307,1318,1335,2026,2027,2041,2042.

Rodril wrote:
GrayFace wrote:Indeed. Gray hair stops us from makings them black knights either.

All black knights I've seen in heroes series were people with long backstory about desire to power/eternal life/preserving beauty outfit, don't remember any who "was just reanimated and started to lead armies at his own", except Lord Haart, who rather exception.

No, I'm talking about a Death Knight class to choose from the start that would use Zombie paperdolls, but they'd require modifications. (thanks Xfing for correction about Death Knight rather than Black Knight)

Rodril wrote:It is not that important anyway, if someone will repaint zombie paperdolls they could be used to bring back mm7 alike-behavior of reanimation spell and dark temples.

Wow, never knew you could get zombies from Reanimate spell! Never used it on party members and only used it on monsters for fun a few times.
Last edited by GrayFace on Oct 6 2018, 19:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 6 2018, 19:38

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:Dwarfs will be added eventually, as soon as somebody paints them to fit on one of the paperdoll types in MM8 (which is used as a base for the mod)

I though maybe minotaur paperdoll would be ok for them, but probably not and also they're male only.

Here's how you can do screenshots with any item:

Code: Select all

evt[0].Add("Inventory", 2026)

Here 2026 is the item number. Converted armors are 1306,1307,1318,1335,2026,2027,2041,2042.


I totally forgot that you can make female dwarves. :D
Well, crud. Is it possible to add paperdoll types? Even if it was a duplicite one from existing?
If you could do that, then you could dupe the minotaur paperdoll, repaint dwarves to fit in it, both male and female, and have two sets of armour sprites - male that would be connected with the standard minotaur one and female that would be connected to the duped one. As you can see from the tracker, there is a dwarf section of somebody fitting a dwarven head and dwarven legs together with minotaur torso and arms. If it wasn't so hairy, it would be usable straight away.

About the screenshots - I'm afraid that I do not have a working game currently. I'm basically waiting for a fully finished mod to do it. (as I always do nowadays,.... I blame the industry)
Well, but you do, since you had the time to repaint them, and you do have the mod installed, it should be trivial to screenshot them for you. And since you also have editing privileges....
... if you don't want to spent time on it, I'm sure I can ask xfing or someone to do it, just somebody send me the pictures if you do not have editing privileges. Or go one step beyond and put the pictures into the tracker, you should have "suggested edits" privileges on the tracker I think, so anybody should be able to make personal edits and then suggest them through the API to me to accept or refuse them!
Last edited by Templayer on Oct 6 2018, 20:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 6 2018, 19:42

GrayFace wrote:
Rodril wrote:It is not that important anyway, if someone will repaint zombie paperdolls they could be used to bring back mm7 alike-behavior of reanimation spell and dark temples.

Wow, never knew you could get zombies from Reanimation spell! Never used it on party members and only used it on monsters for fun a few times.

As a kid in MM8 I've sided with the Necromancers, and then after killing all the clerics, I have raised them from the dead. "Hey guys, it is all a ruse to get the Necros join our efforts!".
Of course after a year of in-game time they actually turned hostile, so I had to ... "pacify" them again. :D :tongue:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 6 2018, 20:01

Using Reanimate on dead party members to create zombies was a MM7 gimmick, it did work in addition to evil-aligned temples. Funnily enough, it gave Dwarves a full human height, due to the lack of zombified dwarf paperdolls.

As for paperdolls for dwarves - in MM7 dwarven paperdolls were a lot like normal ones in terms of behavior - all the items went in the same places for dwarves if I remember correctly. If I were making decisions here, I'd go with adjusting the regular, full-sized male human model by making them shorter, but keep the torso's size the same to enable the model to use all gear in the same variant as the male MM8 characters. Anyway, it's going to take quite a while I'm sure.

As for a new class using zombie paperdolls right off the bat - the problem is that Zombie is a condition in MM7, one that severely alters your stats. The characters remaining zombies permanently after a party death while in zombie state was a bug (an exploitable one though), but knowing that I think it would somewhat break the lore. Unless you were to keep negative healing, severely diminished stats and revivability only via Reanimate. I believe that would be too much of a hassle and require a ton of compromises to introduce this. Zombie as a condition would be super cool though, but again, kinda sucks that it would require drawing trollish, minotaur and dragon paperdolls. That's fortunately a minor problem, as you wouldn't need to alter the baseline in any way, and dragons don't wear any visible equipment anyway.

As for dragons, like I said - the least invasive way to go about it would be to set their breath weapon to be fire based and give them a melee attack based on Dragon Ability. Everyone should be happy then :P

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 6 2018, 20:08

Xfing wrote:As for dragons, like I said - the least invasive way to go about it would be to set their breath weapon to be fire based and give them a melee attack based on Dragon Ability. Everyone should be happy then :P


I wouldn't. Those should synergize with the Unarmed skill (while being based on Dragon Abilities).
Even though a Dragon Monk would be quite lethal then. :D

To set it to fire and remove engine quirks, you would have to convert it to a bow and change the projectile to the correct one. And to add proper melee attack,... basically doing exactly what I have typed once before already and what is written on the tracker. To do what you have said you would have to do the things that I have said.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 6 2018, 20:26

But combining dragons with classes? That's far-fetched. Just leave them as what they are now, seriously...

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 6 2018, 20:31

Xfing wrote:But combining dragons with classes? That's far-fetched. Just leave them as what they are now, seriously...


Why? Why not Dragon Necromancers? :D
Also you can do that in-game. Won't be able to use dragon abilities or equipment, though.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 6 2018, 21:32

Oh, and BTW, I've noticed that some weapons were recently arbitrarily replaced with different graphics. Particularly some 1h and 2h longswords from MM6 and MM7. Why is that? Is that to make weapons like Elfbane and Villain's Blade have unique sprites?

EDIT: Nope, Eflbane's sprite was replaced also. As was Iron Feather's.

Please roll back this change, these replaced images are ugly!
Last edited by Xfing on Oct 6 2018, 21:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Mommyiamnotacow » Oct 7 2018, 6:33

Hello! Can y help me with some questions?
I play Merge with challenge "dead is dead" when i dismiss killed party members. And at some point (treveling to next mm part) i got a bug, 80% peasants have broken inventory. Thay dont have base loot, and the main problem they cant handl the items. With empty inventiry the character says "inventory is full". How can i fix this? Is there a console script to generate hired peasant to test?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 8:54

Mommyiamnotacow wrote:Hello! Can y help me with some questions?
I play Merge with challenge "dead is dead" when i dismiss killed party members. And at some point (treveling to next mm part) i got a bug, 80% peasants have broken inventory. Thay dont have base loot, and the main problem they cant handl the items. With empty inventiry the character says "inventory is full". How can i fix this? Is there a console script to generate hired peasant to test?


Added to temporary bugtracker.

But I don't really remember anyone else having that problem, except for the early phases of this thread.
Last edited by Templayer on Oct 7 2018, 8:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2018, 8:59

As for the altered swords, here they are:

Image

I'm not sure about that last two-handed one, but I included it to be on the safe side too - it displays a thick black border when given a character to wield. As far as one-handed swords go, the Duelist Blade and the MM6 wavy sword (don't remember the name) were changed, and from two-handed ones the dark, wavy one from MM6 was, as were both versions of the Heroic Sword from MM6 and MM7.

I don't remember these changes being discussed anywhere, and the swords all look worse than their vanilla versions, so it's either a bug, or someone has been sneaking in undiscussed and arbitrary changes to the merge. Just in case: please don't do this, it really affects the pleasure of playing.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Mommyiamnotacow » Oct 7 2018, 9:13

Templayer wrote:
Mommyiamnotacow wrote:Hello! Can y help me with some questions?
I play Merge with challenge "dead is dead" when i dismiss killed party members. And at some point (treveling to next mm part) i got a bug, 80% peasants have broken inventory. Thay dont have base loot, and the main problem they cant handl the items. With empty inventiry the character says "inventory is full". How can i fix this? Is there a console script to generate hired peasant to test?


Added to temporary bugtracker.

But I don't really remember anyone else having that problem, except for the early phases of this thread.

Thank you. I have a game with 30.09 update. The game was fully reinstalled with first start script compilied, not just patched.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 9:35

Mommyiamnotacow wrote:
Templayer wrote:Added to temporary bugtracker.

But I don't really remember anyone else having that problem, except for the early phases of this thread.

Thank you. I have a game with 30.09 update. The game was fully reinstalled with first start script compilied, not just patched.

Additional info added to the bug tracker.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby dominatorek1 » Oct 7 2018, 10:01

I got bsod video scheduel internal error by playing mm8 and i cant still fix it i have up to date graphics card
everything is installed i dont know how to fix.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 11:03

dominatorek1 wrote:I got bsod video scheduel internal error by playing mm8 and i cant still fix it i have up to date graphics card
everything is installed i dont know how to fix.


Added to the bug tracker.
However this sounds way more like a driver / card malfunction error, than a game error.
If you have another graphics card (I always have a backup, for the past 10 years, it seems), try switching it, if it continues, it wasn't the problem, if not, either there is something wrong with the driver, or the card itself is screwed.
Also could very well be a RAM problem (especially if your graphics card doesn't have its own RAM, using system RAM instead).
It could be anything at this point, try googling up the BSOD error and CHECK PC events (Control panel - Administrative Tools - Event Viewer, find the time the BSOD occured to see what was happening at that point).

EDIT: Also telling us what you were doing in-game at the point of the BSOD might be helpful. Especially if you were entering a cutscene / entering a building, etc. Or at start? Or is it random? Entering the game and loading?
Last edited by Templayer on Oct 7 2018, 11:05, edited 1 time in total.
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