Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Ossie
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Aug 31 2021, 1:47

HI all, couple of qns:

* once you get the ability to change worlds, can you jump between worlds to complete quests etc as you see fit, and come back to previous/starting worlds to continue when you want, or do you essentially have to complete one game (or at least certain parts) before jumping to another world?
* are trainers able to continue from previous skill levels earned in other worlds - ie if I train Sword to Master level on Enroth, will the GM teacher on Anagarich/Jadame train me as soon as I walk in, without having to go via the Expert/Master teachers in the same world (and potentially complete any quests necessary to unlock those levels again in the "new" world)?
Last edited by Ossie on Aug 31 2021, 1:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby raekuul » Aug 31 2021, 10:35

You can hop continents at basically any time. Most players appear to prefer completing continent-to-continent, however.

The quests given by Verdant assume you will be hopping continents at-will, but start in the order of Jadame-Antagarich-Enroth. Wait to do these until you're ready to raid Regna for the first one (for ability reasons), and have rescued the petrified dwarves for the second one (for political reasons).

The skill system does not distinguish between where you learned a skill, all it cares about is if you meet the requirements. It does not matter who trained you as an Expert Merchant. With that said, the requirements are still as they were originally - you will not be able to learn Master Air Magic in Enroth without retrieving the Crystal of Terrax.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 1 2021, 6:52

Potential bug: not sure if intended behaviour or not: Knight started in MM6, already promoted to Cavalier & then jumped to MM8, cannot learn Expert Disarm Trap in MM8 as this is only available to "Knight". If started as Knight in MM8 would be able to learn to Expert

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby justl » Sep 2 2021, 4:55

Ossie wrote:Potential bug: not sure if intended behaviour or not: Knight started in MM6, already promoted to Cavalier & then jumped to MM8, cannot learn Expert Disarm Trap in MM8 as this is only available to "Knight". If started as Knight in MM8 would be able to learn to Expert
not a bug, but in the "class skills.txt" its probably not activated
you can do it manually via excel or notepad++
Last edited by justl on Sep 2 2021, 4:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby zealot » Sep 2 2021, 21:45

Another bug - if you recover the book of the divine intervention from the breading zone and you use it to learn the spell, you can't complete the quest for the Wizard.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby justl » Sep 3 2021, 5:14

zealot wrote:Another bug - if you recover the book of the divine intervention from the breading zone and you use it to learn the spell, you can't complete the quest for the Wizard.
with this, after going through the breading zone, try to get this book on mm6 and see if you can complete the quest then.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby zealot » Sep 3 2021, 22:09

justl wrote:
zealot wrote:Another bug - if you recover the book of the divine intervention from the breading zone and you use it to learn the spell, you can't complete the quest for the Wizard.
with this, after going through the breading zone, try to get this book on mm6 and see if you can complete the quest then.
thank you, it worked, I used the book found in the obelisk chest :)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 4 2021, 9:28

justl wrote:not a bug, but in the "class skills.txt" its probably not activated
you can do it manually via excel or notepad++
Apologies, cannot make this work. Notepad++ does not open in a way which makes it clear which value to change. Any further help please?

And with respect, how is this not a bug if intended behaviour is for skill to be available?

Addition in same vein- GM Sorcerer in MM6 trained to Lich in MM8 cannot learn GM Alchemy - "cannot be learned by Lich class" - clearly incorrect
Last edited by Ossie on Sep 4 2021, 13:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby justl » Sep 5 2021, 6:47

Ossie wrote:
justl wrote:not a bug, but in the "class skills.txt" its probably not activated
you can do it manually via excel or notepad++
Apologies, cannot make this work. Notepad++ does not open in a way which makes it clear which value to change. Any further help please?

And with respect, how is this not a bug if intended behaviour is for skill to be available?

Addition in same vein- GM Sorcerer in MM6 trained to Lich in MM8 cannot learn GM Alchemy - "cannot be learned by Lich class" - clearly incorrect
then try load it via excel - there you see that the values displayed correclty to their rows/colums

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Maslyonok » Sep 5 2021, 7:23

Ossie wrote:
justl wrote:not a bug, but in the "class skills.txt" its probably not activated
you can do it manually via excel or notepad++
Apologies, cannot make this work. Notepad++ does not open in a way which makes it clear which value to change. Any further help please?

And with respect, how is this not a bug if intended behaviour is for skill to be available?

Addition in same vein- GM Sorcerer in MM6 trained to Lich in MM8 cannot learn GM Alchemy - "cannot be learned by Lich class" - clearly incorrect
Try this tool
Russian localization (patch 06.03):
Basic
Not compatible with community edition.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 6 2021, 1:20

Maslyonok wrote:
Ossie wrote:
justl wrote:not a bug, but in the "class skills.txt" its probably not activated
you can do it manually via excel or notepad++
Apologies, cannot make this work. Notepad++ does not open in a way which makes it clear which value to change. Any further help please?

And with respect, how is this not a bug if intended behaviour is for skill to be available?

Addition in same vein- GM Sorcerer in MM6 trained to Lich in MM8 cannot learn GM Alchemy - "cannot be learned by Lich class" - clearly incorrect
Try this tool
Thanks - Excel also didn't work but that tool did - appreciate the response. However I've changed the values in Class Skills.txt & no change to in-game behaviour - skills still appear red & trainers do not allow training. File path was <game>/Extra/CommunityDefault/Data/Tables/. Anything else I need to do, like making all previous promo paths also consistent? I just changed Champion entries to E for Disarm, and Lich entries to G for Alchemy.

Final question to clarify the various Classes listed: my Knight has been fully promoted to Champion in MM6 and completed the first promo in MM7 (which would normally be "Cavalier" in vanilla MM7, but still shows as a "Champion" due to MM6). Class options in Class Skills.txt are Knight, Cavalier, Knight2, Knight3, Champion, Champion3, BlackKnight, BlackKnight3. Similarly, to give a Lich GM Alchemy in MM8 after being fully promoted in MM6, options are Sorceror, Wizard, SorcerorLight, WizardLight, SorcerorDark, Necromancer, MasterWizard, MasterWizard3, ArchMage, ArchMage3, Lich, Lich3.

What is the naming convention that has been used in that file to know which class relates to which game, promo status etc? I could just go and change everything now across the entire Class pathway, obviously, but keen to know (and not to mess with more than necessary)
Last edited by Ossie on Sep 6 2021, 6:01, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby cthscr » Sep 6 2021, 16:48

Ossie wrote: File path was <game>/Extra/CommunityDefault/Data/Tables/
Files in Extra have no effect, only those that are in <game>/Data/Tables/ have.
Though the whole topic is probably about non-updated [hardcoded] event rather than class skills distribution.
Upd: yes, unlike in MM8, Knight shouldn't be able to learn Expert Disarm.
Last edited by cthscr on Sep 6 2021, 17:03, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby cthscr » Sep 6 2021, 17:07

tomchen1989 wrote:
cthscr wrote: Gold is mon.Items[3] with mon.Items[3].Bonus2 being an amount. See also events PickCorpse and CastTelepathy.
Do you know how to use events.PickCorpse?

Let's say we want to pick all corpses in the current map, obviously, the code will be like:

Code: Select all

for _, mon in Map.Monsters do
  if mon.HP == 0 then
    [...]
  end
end
What should be the code in [...]?

I tried to assign mon as argument Monster of events.PickCorpse(), or somehow obtain MonsterIndex, but no success
See Fixed Monster Treasure script at grayface's site.
PickCorpse better be called GenerateDeadMonsterLoot. CastTelepathy - GenerateAliveMonsterLoot. All their purpose is loot generation/modification.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 6 2021, 21:46

cthscr wrote:
Ossie wrote: File path was <game>/Extra/CommunityDefault/Data/Tables/
Files in Extra have no effect, only those that are in <game>/Data/Tables/ have.
Though the whole topic is probably about non-updated [hardcoded] event rather than class skills distribution.
Upd: yes, unlike in MM8, Knight shouldn't be able to learn Expert Disarm.
Thanks - to clarify:
* editing "Class Skills.txt" in the folder path <game>/Data/Tables/ *will* change availability of skills in-game?
* intended behaviour for merge mod overall is that Knight (and all promotion paths) can not learn Expert Disarm, despite this being available in MM8 vanilla?
* intended behaviour for merge mod overall is that Lich can not learn GM Alchemy, despite this being available in MM8 vanilla?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby raekuul » Sep 7 2021, 10:53

Changes to skills are generally deliberate, in order to allow other classes to stand out. Lich lost GM Alchemy in order to encourage using Druids for that.

With that said, the changes to skills are a bit more complex than just shuffling around what classes get what skills. In order to accommodate the Race/Class unlocker, a new "Racial Skills" method was added - among other things, this allows Dragon Knights to still learn their Dragon abilities.

Where this becomes complex is that the current version of Community Branch, if you follow the setup instructions to the letter, grants humans a higher cap to miscellaneous skills - a Human Archmage will reach a higher level of Alchemy than an Elf Archmage would.
Last edited by raekuul on Sep 7 2021, 10:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 7 2021, 11:04

raekuul wrote:Changes to skills are generally deliberate, in order to allow other classes to stand out. Lich lost GM Alchemy in order to encourage using Druids for that.

With that said, the changes to skills are a bit more complex than just shuffling around what classes get what skills. In order to accommodate the Race/Class unlocker, a new "Racial Skills" method was added - among other things, this allows Dragon Knights to still learn their Dragon abilities.

Where this becomes complex is that the current version of Community Branch, if you follow the setup instructions to the letter, grants humans a higher cap to miscellaneous skills - a Human Archmage will reach a higher level of Alchemy than an Elf Archmage would.
Interesting - FWIW I would have also chosen GM Alchemy for Ranger - seems to fit role play and class progression, for a Class that otherwise doesn't offer much in terms of min/max. Good info - thanks!
Last edited by Ossie on Sep 7 2021, 11:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 7 2021, 12:11

Checking:

* when I first ported into MM8 (from MM6) I encountered someone while flying around Dagger Wound Islands (presumably whoever the Merge Mod maguffin is - maybe the mysterious "V"?) who I'm sure told me to visit Daedross, but Daedross didn't provide any dialogue options, and I haven't found any Merge Mod dialogue options since landing in MM8 - what is the intended path for Merge Mod progression on arriving in MM8 from other worlds?

* My Clerics and Sorcerers have already picked Light and Dark path options before arriving in MM7, and fully promoted: ie already a Cleric Of Light and Lich (via Archmage on Dark path in MM6 and promoted in MM8) in same party. How does this affect the Arbiter choice - ie Liches in a party who choose Light and Clerics Of Light in a party who choose Dark?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby raekuul » Sep 7 2021, 20:02

Ossie wrote:Checking:

* when I first ported into MM8 (from MM6) I encountered someone while flying around Dagger Wound Islands (presumably whoever the Merge Mod maguffin is - maybe the mysterious "V"?) who I'm sure told me to visit Daedross, but Daedross didn't provide any dialogue options, and I haven't found any Merge Mod dialogue options since landing in MM8 - what is the intended path for Merge Mod progression on arriving in MM8 from other worlds?

* My Clerics and Sorcerers have already picked Light and Dark path options before arriving in MM7, and fully promoted: ie already a Cleric Of Light and Lich (via Archmage on Dark path in MM6 and promoted in MM8) in same party. How does this affect the Arbiter choice - ie Liches in a party who choose Light and Clerics Of Light in a party who choose Dark?
In general, story progression for each continent matches the originating games. You need to deliver The Letter to Wilbur Humphrey in Enroth, you need to finish the Scavenger Hunt in Erathia, you need to deliver Dadeross's Report in Jadame. Dadeross is a minotaur NPC in one of the central buildings on Dagger Wound Island's main island. He's the one who tasks you with delivering a report to Edgar Fellmoon in Ravenshore. That NPC that "found you" is the same one that finds you in vanilla MM8, and I believe it's a timed map event rather than an actual NPC event.

The Arbiter Choice is independent of MM6/MM8 activities, and there is no *real* penalty for cross-promoting (meaning you don't get inordinately penalized if you choose Dark and then opt for a Cleric of the Light, or choose Light and then opt for a Villain - these normally don't come up in MM7 since the quests are "off limits" if you're the wrong Alignment but there are other ways to get them in Merge), though I never actually checked how the promotion quests in MM7 themselves are affected.
Last edited by raekuul on Sep 7 2021, 20:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 8 2021, 0:54

raekuul wrote:you need to deliver Dadeross's Report in Jadame. Dadeross is a minotaur NPC in one of the central buildings on Dagger Wound Island's main island. He's the one who tasks you with delivering a report to Edgar Fellmoon in Ravenshore. That NPC that "found you" is the same one that finds you in vanilla MM8, and I believe it's a timed map event rather than an actual NPC event.
You know, in (guessing) 10 playthroughs of MM8 I don't remember ever seeing that NPC before, which is why I thought she was linked to the merge mod. So other than the ability to change worlds in the first place, is it correct that there are no merge-mod-specific quests or story progressions, given by V or anyone else?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

Postby Ossie » Sep 8 2021, 1:12

Ossie wrote:
raekuul wrote:you need to deliver Dadeross's Report in Jadame. Dadeross is a minotaur NPC in one of the central buildings on Dagger Wound Island's main island. He's the one who tasks you with delivering a report to Edgar Fellmoon in Ravenshore. That NPC that "found you" is the same one that finds you in vanilla MM8, and I believe it's a timed map event rather than an actual NPC event.
You know, in (guessing) 10 playthroughs of MM8 I don't remember ever seeing that NPC before, which is why I thought she was linked to the merge mod. So other than the ability to change worlds in the first place, is it correct that there are no merge-mod-specific quests or story progressions, given by V or anyone else? I have yet to find her, and only have the note she gives you in MM6 about meeting in Dragonsand - she wasn't there but I did get the game message about the pedestal being a "high magic area", and casting TP allowed me to jump worlds.


EDIT: remembering that I did actually encounter someone in New Sorpigal who talked about time travel and gave me the Charged Connector Stone - didn't think to look but I assume this was V, and the Stone is what allows the world-jumping? Haven't seen her since though, at Dragonsand or anywhere else in any of the 3 worlds


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