Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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GrayFace
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby GrayFace » Jul 12 2018, 9:10

2 Rodril: The new version of MMExt/Editor is pretty much ready. It fixes doors in The Hive in MM6. It can already be downloaded from https://github.com/GrayFace/MMExtension/ not from the Releases yet, but by downloading/cloning the repo and setting things up in ini as described in Readme.md
Last edited by GrayFace on Jul 12 2018, 9:11, edited 1 time in total.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Sytakan » Jul 12 2018, 17:31

equs wrote:
Sytakan wrote:Not hirelings, followers. I understand hirelings are the party members you can recruit.

Are followers from 6 and 7 not available? What if I get a quest follower for a promotion quest or something? What happens then?


A special button will appear, when you get a follower, triggered by a quest. Followers are only possible through quests. You can't hire people like in MM6 or MM7 (until now).



Thank you for the info. I failed to notice the follower who vanished was the prince, because as soon as he joined, I jumped on a boat and he jumped ship.


You mention "until now." Has this just been implemented or something?

(I get the feeling I should just suck it up and read all 35 pages of this thread, because I feel like I'm missing obvious info.)
Last edited by Sytakan on Jul 12 2018, 17:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Vetrinus » Jul 12 2018, 20:21

Crown of Final Dominion's +50 intellect effect is not working :(

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby lightbringer23 » Jul 13 2018, 16:26

Edit:
Probably should have launched the game before asking ... :embarrased:
1. Since initial classes are limited by starting continents, I can just plan promote within the continent, then do other quests for XP. I also see that the ClassExtra.txt tells me what I need to know.
2. Since initial classes are limited by starting continents, we almost have 3 different games here. A group of Enroth Characters who later go to Bolstered other continents is a different game than a bunch of Dark Elves and Vampires that later travel to Enroth. Try all kinds!
3. Bolstering is completely configurable on the fly, by percentage, at any time. I'll just experiment as I wish.

Awesome! Original post preserved below.
--------------

Wow, I'm so glad I found this a couple days ago. Downloaded and can't wait to spend all weekend trying it out! Tremendous accomplishment and attentiveness, Rodril!

I have a couple questions for those who have completed or gotten far in the merge. I went ahead and read through all the posts, and I don't think its been addressed earlier. I may be wrong, as I was up 'till dawn reading them all xD Please forgive if that's the case.

1. Promotions for classes that appear in multiple games
I understand that promotions are native to their continent. A monk can only be promoted in Antagarich, a Dark Elf in Jadame, etc. Clearly I'll have to plan carefully where I start with a given party. My question is for, say, the Knight. In Jadame, I can recover Ebonest for a promotion to Champion. In vanilla MM8, that is the only promotion I get (and need). In Enroth, I can gain a recommendation for promotion to Cavalier, then I can go defeat the Warlord for Champion. If I start in Jadame and find Ebonest, what promotion do I get? Straight to Champion? Or is it just the <first> promotion, in this case Cavalier? Is it a promotion advantage to start out in Jadame, as only one quest is needed for full promotion, instead of 2 on the other continents? If I'm already a Champion in Enroth, can I still receive the quest for Champion in Antagarich?

I think I saw that a Necromancer from Jadame can get promoted to Archmage in Angatarich, and thus receive both light and dark magic (though presumably not GM Dark). Does the Nercro destined for Archmage have to be promoted to Magician first by collecting golem parts? Can a Jadamean Necromancer become a Magician by finding the Well of Magic for Albert Newton in Enroth, then be promoted directly to Archmage in Antagarich at the School of Sorcery?

TL:DR -- What are the promotion requirements and effects for classes that could receive promotions across more than one continent? Can they mix and match?

2. Balance between the continents

I love the idea of bolstered monsters. We all know that the difficulty curve between the continents is quite different, with monster placement and density dramatically different in Enroth than Jadame. There are far more goblins and mages in New Sorpigal than there are pirates in Daggerwound. Don't get me started on the Memory Crystal castles. Given that at some point the monsters become bolstered (level based?), what is a good order to attempt the continents? Is it better to wait till last to tackle Enroth, or is that too much of a slog with bolstering? I'm looking for enjoyable gameplay, but not punishing and tedious. I do not consider any of the vanilla games punishing or tedious, for reference.

TL:DR What's a good order of continents for bolstering balance, given monster density on Enroth?

3. Might versus Magic balance with bolstered monsters

With high levels and bolstered monsters, does the game favor melee attackers or magic? For example, my hands-down favorite party in MM6 is 4 druids. I loved having 4 water masters, 4 fireballers, 4 inferno, 4 power cure, 4 rock blast, etc. Blast blast blast, heal heal heal, TP, rinse, repeat. Rough start, amazing finish. Skill diversity in MM7-8 made that no longer an option, and made diverse parties for those games.

When I tried the (wonderful) Chaos Conspiracy mod for MM6, I discovered that the game was balanced toward melee with artifact weapons. Endgame monsters had HP levels far beyond vanilla, and were readily mowed down by souped up weapon drops. However, my usual strategy of rock blasts was much less effective. I still did the same 1d8/lvl as I did in vanilla, but the monsters had triple the HP. A later party that emphasized melee had a much easier time of the late game. Should I expect similar balancing with Merge bolstered monsters? Or should I plan on putting 20-30 points in elemental magics to boost my damaging spells high enough? It sounds crazy, but I suppose when you have 150+ levels to play with, it's what you get.
In other mods, weapons are boosted way up to deal with tough monsters (I have fond memories of mundane 9d12 throwing javelins from Rev4Mod). Do artifacts receive a boost here to deal with 400hp goblins? Finding an "artifact" with an extra +2 to hit and damage isn't very exciting when monsters are bolstered super high ...

TL:DR With boosted monsters, will spells still be effective enough, or do I need to boost my spell skills to crazy levels to compensate? What about weapons? Is it all supposed to be skill based?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply :D
Last edited by lightbringer23 on Jul 13 2018, 20:19, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby lightbringer23 » Jul 13 2018, 21:31

Another thing I noticed is that characters that should have Grandmastery available after promotion do not show it as such -- except for classes native to vanilla MM8.

For example, when I create a knight in Enroth or Antagonich, Grandmaster Sword is red, not yellow. When I create a knight in Jadame, it is yellow. Ditto for Bows for Archer vs Dark Elf, and Self Magics for Clerics.

I'm hoping that it's just an in game artifact of the merge, and that I"ll be able to train and pay for Grandmastery normally. I double checked in ClassSkills.txt and everything looked correct.

Of course, while I was in there, I did my own tinkering to craft the classes I like :)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Rodril » Jul 15 2018, 9:43

Hello, patch link have been updated, only minor fixes this time (Shrine of the Gods, Bounty hunt in indoor maps and few other).

FfuzzyLogik wrote:If you need help to rework positions or things like that, I think I'll remake item list for having something "going together"...

Not necessary to rework positions in Item list, position does not affect items anyhow now. Also it will bring some problems with old savegames and quests (all of these operate with item's index and after repositioning totally diffrent items will have dedicated indexes). At the moment all mm7 items and mm6 items appended to mm8 items in Items.txt, it means mm7 tems starts at index 804, mm6 - 1604, in same order as in original games.
Most of mm7/6 armors should not be accessible as treasures or any other way, they don't have repainted pictures and their effects have not been rescripted as well.

majaczek wrote:here is save with exp-bug

Thanks for the file. Unfortunately, numbers just got overflowed because of previously bugged summons. I don't know way to restore your actual amount of exp, except bringing it to last level's breakpoint. While in game, use f4 to switch to windowed mode, use ctrl+f1 button to open debug console, copy this code there and press ctrl+enter to execute it.

Code: Select all

for i,v in Party do
   v.Experience = v.LevelBase * (v.LevelBase-1) * 500
end


majaczek wrote:I suggest adding additional promotions at late phase of the game (let say Regna for Jadame) or after finishing one of the stories (i.e. beating escaton on Jadame).

Technically it is possible - just add new rows/columns to all Class-related tables. Only problem is screenplays for new quests.

GrayFace wrote:- Data\00 patch.bitmaps.lod is the LOD archive of my patch and it will happily replace it on installation. Use a different name.

Problem is this file contain mm8 hardware water texture with diffrent palette's index (i had to change original), what leads to water-drawing glitch.
GrayFace wrote:2 Rodril: The new version of MMExt/Editor is pretty much ready. It fixes doors in The Hive in MM6. It can already be downloaded from https://github.com/GrayFace/MMExtension/ not from the Releases yet, but by downloading/cloning the repo and setting things up in ini as described in Readme.md

Thank you, i'll check for any incompatibilities in my scripts a bit later.

Giant008 wrote:

Code: Select all

-- Lightning crossbow
WearItemConditions[532] = function(PlayerId)
return Game.CharacterPortraits[Party[PlayerId].Face].Race == const.Race.DarkElf
end

It is hardcoded, but defined function overriding hardcoded behaivor, so it is not enough to remove it, replace it with:

Code: Select all

-- Lightning crossbow
WearItemConditions[532] = function(PlayerId)
return true
end

Giant008 wrote:...also, I would like to add more types of elemental damage

I'm afraid i don't know. I think weapon can have only one kind of additional damage. But in this function you have direct access to monster being hit, should be possible to count additional damage manually, look at examples of "OnHitEffects", where "Special" field used.

Tripleight wrote:I still don't understand, are there fundamental differences between a necromancer and sorcerer? Currently it seems that you are only penalized for playing a sorcerer, because there are artifacts that you can't use and a necromancer starts with dark magic, which is a great bonus, difficult to undervalue.

There are no fundamental differences, except necromancers can not become archmages (sorcerers and wizrads can become necromancers in Shadowspire). It is easier to start at mm8 in all terms: most of classes have only two promotions, and their base class equal to first promotion of mm6/7 classes. It does not seem fair, but that way it worked in original games, i would like to leave it as it is.
Tripleight wrote:Artifact Wallace, sword, Armsmaster +10, stacks with armor armsmaster bonuses, my knight currently has +27, is this intended? Same with Ruler's Ring, Of Dark Magic. Probably other artifacts and bonuses work like this.

Yes, it is intended. You can stack 1 common item + unlimited number of artifacts. It works this way for now.
Where have you found "Arthur"?

Vetrinus wrote:I have a question about the V-storyline. I have retrieved the rod from the DDC, so where can I find V now? Do I need to beat all three games for V to pop up? If not then where is she?

Have you traveled to other continents yet? V. should give you special item for communication.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » Jul 15 2018, 17:35

Rodril wrote:
Vetrinus wrote:I have a question about the V-storyline. I have retrieved the rod from the DDC, so where can I find V now? Do I need to beat all three games for V to pop up? If not then where is she?

Have you traveled to other continents yet? V. should give you special item for communication.


@vetrinus: it is that black pearl, you get it, when you first switch continents. when you use it, a dialog-window opens

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » Jul 15 2018, 17:36

accidently doubleposting
Last edited by justl on Jul 15 2018, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby equs » Jul 16 2018, 10:56

Sytakan wrote:...You mention "until now." Has this just been implemented or something?...


Yes there will be a new custom button to open up a popup menu where all your followers will appear, as long, as you have some.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby FfuzzyLogik » Jul 16 2018, 21:16

Good evening,

For items I thought you wanna add MM6 and 7 armors and wait graphics design when they are equipped. With some work it can be done. Just one reflexion before... I find MM8 has the uglyest position for heroes : the position look not natural (chest behind, not really difference when items are one and thwo handed) ; many items can't be well placed because they are "too big" to be on screen when equipped... I've never seen that in previous MM... So I'd like to rework some items and maybe heroes...
If MM6-7 armors are added, you'll have many items to "get" and so finding "the best items" shall be harder and it will probably increase intrest of game. When you have "the best items" game is less intresting.
I made full list of items reworking MM6. I have for now not enough items for MM7-8 too. But it can be done. Bad items are smaller (like pots who are 1 "square space" insteand of two, same for scrolls ; I also made many items smaller for they take less space).

I was thinking about using old spells (with spell scrolls of MM6 and 7 ?). So enchant item shall be found and used.
I also made new look for keys, books, scrolls, added many staff (as they were only 3) re-using some space in inventory...

Just some thoughts and if you wish my items, I'm ready to share.

Good night,

Sytakan
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Sytakan » Jul 16 2018, 23:54

Verdant wont leave me alone. She talks to me almost every minute now. I get that she likes heroes, but geez.

Edit: Nevermind, this fixed when I fully quit out the game.
Last edited by Sytakan on Jul 17 2018, 0:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby nevilspealer » Jul 17 2018, 3:44

So I'm running a dark side party and I decide I'm going to fight my way through the pit and castle gloaming, then go to VARN and the end of MM6 and come back after the pit's respawned to finish the colony zod and lincoln stuff. When the area respawned everything was still hostile. I cannot report for the colony zod quest 'Strike the Devils' and therefore cannot finish the main plot.
I'd just reload but that's before Varn, the control center, the hive, and the colony zod.
Normally the respawn should make the throne room accessible again. This problem might also occur on light side, or even with Stone City/ Castle Gryphonheart/ Castle Navan. Stone City could also potentially be game breaking.

P.S. Thanks for looking into the glitchy summons. It's really cool that you fix things so quickly. I had a few more weird encounters with summons, but I don't know if that was before I patched. There were some hydras in the pit with hit points so high it broke and they died in one hit, and air elementals in varn that reset back down to reasonable strength when I reloaded for some reason.

EDIT: I also found out that the Staff of the Elements gives its bonus to skills when it's broken. Maybe all artifacts do?
Last edited by nevilspealer on Jul 17 2018, 3:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Jul 17 2018, 13:25

Oh, I'd like to remind you about the simple to fix thing I mentioned a while ago - the male lich spellcasting sprite - it's still using the MM8 one, while the MM7 one looks the same, but also has his eyes glow. I think it's better and it would be nice to have it restored.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Vetrinus » Jul 17 2018, 20:42

I have completed the "save the goobers" quest and obtained the telelocator. I read here of a "runaway chaos" and a basement with infinite monsters. Where is all this? How can I activate it?

The Crown of Final Dominion issue has thankfully been fixed. However, there seems to be something wonky going on with Mekorig's Hammer. My Priest of the Dark has both the hammer and the shield Eclipse equipped, both items having an "of Spirit" effect. When both are equipped, neither effect works. Unequipping one causes the other's effect to work properly. My Hero also has the hammer equipped along with Terminus. If I equip Terminus along with Mekorig's Hammer the total damage decreases (attack bonus functions properly). The hammer alone is doing more damage than the two weapons combined. :confused:
Last edited by Vetrinus on Jul 19 2018, 0:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby giant008 » Jul 19 2018, 5:04

Dear Rodril,

I have a minor bug to report: found the Supreme Plate artifact that has the "swift" property...works for the melee weapons but does not for the bow...

The Herald's Boots, on the other hand work great with melle and bows as well....

Thanx

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby giant008 » Jul 19 2018, 7:10

Dear Rodril,

could you pls post a short script/command how to change the whole in-game description of an artifact? (or any other item)

Thanx a lot.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Jul 20 2018, 6:52

Vetrinus wrote:I have completed the "save the goobers" quest and obtained the telelocator. I read here of a "runaway chaos" and a basement with infinite monsters. Where is all this? How can I activate it?

The Crown of Final Dominion issue has thankfully been fixed. However, there seems to be something wonky going on with Mekorig's Hammer. My Priest of the Dark has both the hammer and the shield Eclipse equipped, both items having an "of Spirit" effect. When both are equipped, neither effect works. Unequipping one causes the other's effect to work properly. My Hero also has the hammer equipped along with Terminus. If I equip Terminus along with Mekorig's Hammer the total damage decreases (attack bonus functions properly). The hammer alone is doing more damage than the two weapons combined. :confused:


This is true, I've also noticed it. Relics are supposed to stack indefinitely, but it doesn't work. I remember using 2 artifacts of Dark Magic + a regular ring, and my bonus went from +30 to like - 15 something. Guess it just rolled over.

As for the skill cap display - these are indeed just artifacts. After the classes are promoted, they can achieve proper levels of grand mastery.
Last edited by Xfing on Jul 20 2018, 7:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Jul 20 2018, 7:04

Oh, and the most important thing, Rodril - could you incorporate the latest versions of GrayFace's patches for MM6, 7 and 8 into the files? These patches bring some very important and long-awaited bug fixes, not to mention new features!

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby majaczek » Jul 21 2018, 14:27

thanks Rodril
as for new Promotions, The Verdant Could give them :)
as you already put she waiting on Regna she is in good place on Jadame (IDK about Antagrich and Enroth)

Could you make to be able to move Blaster to left hand if it is on Master or Grandmaster?
also I have only 2 blasters... (one from assasination quest and one from entering to Giants Isle), should be it this way?

Also if I have to got more of them it is more general bug - in other quests where I should get a few items at once I got only one (troll's elxirs of fire resistance, and body to flesh on murmurwoods etc.)
Last edited by majaczek on Jul 21 2018, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.


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