Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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deltaco1023
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby deltaco1023 » Jul 1 2021, 22:11

Ok quick test run I did in MM7, the difference is in the original MM7 it did NOT charge you 5000gp per use (current party has 60,000gp) so if you had Protection of Magic....well you could abuse it :).

So now, could someone point me in the right direction to change this BACK to the original version please. :)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Xfing » Jul 2 2021, 7:12

Ok quick test run I did in MM7, the difference is in the original MM7 it did NOT charge you 5000gp per use (current party has 60,000gp) so if you had Protection of Magic....well you could abuse it :).

So now, could someone point me in the right direction to change this BACK to the original version please. :)
That well was downright cheap if you had GM in body magic, it's probably a good thing it got nerfed some. Pretty sure it didn't cost 5k gold to use, in fact it gave you gold as one of the prizes and allowed to accumulate obscene amounts of it. Haven't tried the well yet in the merge with any party so as to not make things unfair, but with the bolster and no dark magic user in my party it may in fact be more of an equalizer than an unfair advantage.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Eksekk » Jul 2 2021, 7:39

So now, could someone point me in the right direction to change this BACK to the original version please.
I'll repeat my own post: Get out12.lua from decompiled MM7 scripts, delete from file everything not relating to well's event (205), and put it into scripts/maps. From there you can modify its behavior (or modify nothing to restore default behavior).
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 2 2021, 7:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Echo » Jul 2 2021, 9:34

Was something changed in regards to purchasing Fly spell from guilds? I can get it no problem in MM6 Free Haven, but in MM7 Tularean and MM8 Alvar all I get is Invisibility and Implosion (reloaded a fair bunch of times to make sure). Hmm.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby deltaco1023 » Jul 2 2021, 9:56

So now, could someone point me in the right direction to change this BACK to the original version please.
I'll repeat my own post: Get out12.lua from decompiled MM7 scripts, delete from file everything not relating to well's event (205), and put it into scripts/maps. From there you can modify its behavior (or modify nothing to restore default behavior).
Thank you! It worked! :)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby deltaco1023 » Jul 2 2021, 9:58

Was something changed in regards to purchasing Fly spell from guilds? I can get it no problem in MM6 Free Haven, but in MM7 Tularean and MM8 Alvar all I get is Invisibility and Implosion (reloaded a fair bunch of times to make sure). Hmm.
Yes they made it harder to obtain the "last" (based on gp value) Master spell and the Grandmaster spells as well...you won't find in them most shops as easily as before! :)

I'd link the info but I can't remember where I found it, probably in this thread somewhere. I had the same issue as you, took me awhile to track down the info too. Good Luck!
Last edited by deltaco1023 on Jul 2 2021, 10:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby raekuul » Jul 2 2021, 10:47

Your best bet for getting the top spells in each class are to visit the Paramount Guilds in Erathia, though there are a few exceptions...

1) Enroth still has guaranteed books of Lloyd's Beacon/Town Portal in the Tomb of VARN's Biblioteca, as well as the guaranteed Divine Intervention and Dark Containment Souldrinker from the Obelisk Puzzle, and the random Inferno book in the New World Computing offices
2) Erathia still has a guaranteed book of Divine Intervention in The Breeding Zone (I haven't played Evil in a long while, is that book there in vanilla/merge if you go Dark, or only if you go Light?)
3) I think Enroth's Adept Guilds still have the same distribution as in vanilla (e.g. books 1-11, except Path only have 1-10 to encourage the Obelisk Quest)? But their weighting might make it better to shop for spells in Erathia. I usually route through Evenmorn Isles to visit the Paramount Guild of Water once I reach GM Water on who is almost invariably Devlin Arcanus so that I have a good chance to get Lloyd's Beacon before starting Enroth.
Last edited by raekuul on Jul 2 2021, 10:55, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Echo » Jul 2 2021, 11:09

I've gotten Town Portal in Evernmorn with ease, I've also seen Lloyd's Beacon there just couldn't afford it due to price changes I added. It's just the Fly that eluded me, and I was wondering if I accidentally messed something up so I checked a bunch of times in both MM7 and MM8 :D MM6 was completely vanilla indeed, first time opening the guild, Fly was there. MM7/MM8 failed in like 20 reloads.

It's fine, I was mostly wondering if I broke something when I fiddled with the files, but good to know I have not :P

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby cthscr » Jul 2 2021, 11:47

Except that in Unmodded MM7 the guards do become hostile if you attack their civilians (even in Nighon, where the guards would randomly kill their own civilians). Guard Hostility was not linked to your reputation so much as to your conduct.
Oh, the latter is obviously a bug. But I don't think I did something to bring it, and it's present in Base Merge as well.
Actually, guard do become hostile in Merge if you attack their civilans. It's just that their civilans are only one kind of peasants (and that is the exact bug).
Function 0x4386A3 (I'd call it AreMonstersAllies [params: ecx,edx - map monsters pointers]) is just stupid... Well, it's MM7 legacy changed the laziest way possible. Fun fact: map monsters are allies if they are of the same monster kind unless their Ally field is different.
Maybe I should make negative Ally to check for monster Group instead of kind.
Re-hardcoding monster types relations for Antagarich and Enroth. Emerald Island works similar to MM7 (other places [and races] have to be checked). Guards in Enroth don't have Ally set, so they won't react to anything related to peasants. There are four monster types in MM6 for peasants but only two were used. I've hardcoded all four.

Code: Select all

-- Monster Allies -- Support groups as negatives (1) mem.asmpatch(0x4386B6, [[ jns @std test edi, edi js absolute 0x4386D8 mov edi, dword ptr [ebx+0x34C] neg edi jmp absolute 0x4386D8 @std: jnz absolute 0x4386C6 movsx eax, word ptr [ecx+0x6A] ]]) -- Support groups as negatives (2) mem.asmpatch(0x4386C8, [[ jns @std mov esi, dword ptr [ecx+0x34C] neg esi jmp absolute 0x4386D8 @std: jnz absolute 0x4386D8 movsx eax, word ptr [ebx+0x6A] ]]) -- Use sane comparison first mem.asmpatch(0x4386DB, [[ cmp esi, edi jz short 0x43874D - 0x4386DB push 0x80 pop edx ]], 12) -- MM7 human, dwarf, elf peasants mem.asmpatch(0x4386FB, [[ push 0x75 pop ecx cmp esi, ecx jl @opt1 cmp esi, edx jg @end cmp edi, ecx jl @end cmp edi, edx jg @end jmp short 0x43874D - 0x4386FB @opt1: push 0x69 pop ecx push 0x6E pop edx cmp esi, ecx jl @end cmp esi, edx jg @opt2 cmp edi, ecx jl @end cmp edi, edx jg @end jmp short 0x43874D - 0x4386FB @opt2: push 0x74 pop edx cmp edi, edx jle short 0x43874D - 0x4386FB @end: ]], 0x438737 - 0x4386FB) -- MM7 goblin peasants, MM6 peasants mem.asmpatch(0x43872F, [[ push 0x90 pop ecx push 0x95 pop edx cmp esi, ecx jl @end cmp esi, edx jg @opt1 cmp edi, ecx jl @end cmp edi, edx jg @end jmp absolute 0x43874D @opt1: push 0xC1 pop ecx push 0xCB pop edx cmp esi, ecx jl @end cmp esi, edx jg @end cmp edi, ecx jl @end cmp edi, edx jl @end push 0xC2 pop ecx push 0xC6 pop edx cmp esi, ecx jl @opt2 cmp esi, edx jg @opt2 cmp edi, ecx jl @opt2 cmp edi, edx jg @opt2 jmp @end @opt2: push 0xC9 pop ecx push 0xCA pop edx cmp esi, ecx jl @ok cmp esi,edx jg @ok cmp edi, ecx jl @ok cmp edi, edx jg @ok jmp @end @ok: jmp absolute 0x43874D @end: ]])

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Xfing » Jul 2 2021, 11:48

MM8:
Top elemental spells: Regna
Top self spells: Balthazar Lair

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby justl » Jul 2 2021, 18:17

hi,

another predetermined/-positioned wand with no charges found - this time in the land of giants
position is a bit north of colony zod

justl
hi,

there also is a second wand relativly in the vincinity of the first - but you can only get it via telekineses, since its out of the map boundaries.
long story short, its also chargeless.

justl

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby raekuul » Jul 2 2021, 19:16

I've gotten Town Portal in Evernmorn with ease, I've also seen Lloyd's Beacon there just couldn't afford it due to price changes I added. It's just the Fly that eluded me, and I was wondering if I accidentally messed something up so I checked a bunch of times in both MM7 and MM8 :D MM6 was completely vanilla indeed, first time opening the guild, Fly was there. MM7/MM8 failed in like 20 reloads.

It's fine, I was mostly wondering if I broke something when I fiddled with the files, but good to know I have not :P
Honestly, Fly is kind of redundant in MMMerge
1) You can recruit dragons, who automatically get Fly on attaining Master rank in Dragon Ability
2) I think the Warlock promotion awards a Dragon NPC if you're on the Community branch?
3) Cauri Blackthorne comes with the Fly spell
4) You only explicitly need Flight to access a handful of bonus chests (granted, you move faster while flying on top of being able to ignore 90% of the terrain while airborne)

Still, it's useful to know the shop distributions in case you want to skip Cauri/Dragon NPCs. I want to say Fly is specifically removed from the Master Guild of Air in Erathia and will only show up in the Paramount guild? I remember something to that effect, at least.
Last edited by raekuul on Jul 2 2021, 19:51, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Echo » Jul 2 2021, 19:48

I've gotten Town Portal in Evernmorn with ease, I've also seen Lloyd's Beacon there just couldn't afford it due to price changes I added. It's just the Fly that eluded me, and I was wondering if I accidentally messed something up so I checked a bunch of times in both MM7 and MM8 :D MM6 was completely vanilla indeed, first time opening the guild, Fly was there. MM7/MM8 failed in like 20 reloads.

It's fine, I was mostly wondering if I broke something when I fiddled with the files, but good to know I have not :P
Honestly, Fly is kind of redundant in MMMerge
1) You can recruit dragons, who automatically get Fly on attaining Master rank in Dragon Ability
2) I think the Warlock promotion awards a Dragon NPC if you're on the Community branch?
3) Cauri Blackthorne comes with the Fly spell

Still, it's useful to know the shop distributions in case you want to skip Cauri/Dragon NPCs. I want to say Fly is specifically removed from the Master Guild of Air in Erathia and will only show up in the Paramount guild? I remember something to that effect, at least.
I absolutely do not agree with any of this :tongue:

First, I never recruit dragons. I think they're too strong, and I don't like the fact they don't need gear. Even if their breath is nerfed to do fire damage, I'm still not interested.

Second, I never recruit Cauri. Getting a level 50 NPC when my team is below that feels very cheap and reduces any possible challenge. If I want a Dark Elf, I make my own. Before that - I just got Rohani :)

Making my own team of 5 from the start is much more fun and rewarding to me than getting NPCs to join. Not only do they get no free skills/experience, but I also get to keep them from start to finish :tongue:

So yeah, getting Fly in a guild is vital! :hoo:

Not to mention for people who don't play by set routes/gameplan/team plan and just go around poking at random places, jumping around, embracing the chaos the Merge allows. They won't be beelining it for specific NPCs/quests either :creative:

Whenever I played M&M games, I always had some different idea for what I wanted to do, never just repeat my steps. Once I ran out of ideas, I stopped playing them. That's why Merge is so exciting, it allows for more mix-and-matching. Play with bolster once, once without, play with or without magic, start in 6, or 7, or 8. Finish continents one-by-one or hop around. Many new options!
Last edited by Echo on Jul 2 2021, 19:53, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby raekuul » Jul 2 2021, 19:56

In fairness, I beeline towards the Jadame story quests because I'm required to recruit Overdune Snapfinger and Dyson Leland in order to complete the MM8 storyline, and they both benefit greatly from the various shrines/pilgrimages on the other continents (Dyson moreso than Overdune, since he has to be both alive and conscious in order to complete either side of the Murmurwoods/Shadowspire alliance quest - Overdune is basically a glorified escort mission)

It's actually possible to complete almost everything without flight, though you have to get creative with your routing at times (particularly if you're going for the dragon egg in Nighon). On the converse side of things, even without dragons you're getting the original O.P. Weapons as a matter of plot during MM6 and MM7 (especially if the Reactor Core is properly immune to anything that isn't Energy Damage)
Last edited by raekuul on Jul 2 2021, 20:02, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Echo » Jul 2 2021, 20:46

When I played MM8 I only took Overdune for his errand and booted him right away. Dyson was a pain cause he was always underleveled compared to my party so he spent most of the time knocked out and I got him back up for the moments he needed to be up, otherwise just handling the quest with the rest of my team and ignoring his existence :P I sure am not gonna ferry them around any shrines! They're getting the boot as soon as their butts are no longer necessary, shrines are for my actual team members, whoever they may be :D

Of course it's possible to complete it without flight. It's also possible to complete with a solo knight, no hirelings, and everyone else dead (or not hired, in case of MM8). But whether it's fun/fits the playthrough idea, is a whole other thing! :tongue:

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby raekuul » Jul 2 2021, 21:05

Dyson being underlevelled is mostly just because you almost have to overlevel to get through the "Deposit Vilebite's Ashes" quest since the Gogs still explode on death and this time you're fighting them in close quarters (you can get through it without fighting if you get there quickly enough, but odds are good you'd have to break invisibility at the deepest tomb). The target levels for all three of the Alliance Quests is 15, it's just Jadame is ridiculously open compared to Antagarich and you really want to pull the promotion quests as early as possible to get the GM skills, so you're almost never still level 15 when you grab Dyson.

Dyson's actual problem is that on either side of the war, everything deals twenties of damage and Dyson has virtually no Endurance to work with, so if he falls unconscious he's dead soon after, especially if you side with Murmurwoods as half of the enemies inside the Necromancer's Guild HQ have AoE attacks. And that's in Vanilla, long before Bolster comes into play.

On the matter of keeping/not keeping Overdune and Dyson: I prefer to incorporate required things into my party, rather than trying to eject them at the earliest opportunity. If I'm building a MMMerge party from scratch, sure, I'm playing with three characters for a fair chunk, but Overdune is a fairly strong Melee fighter if you invest time in him (and there's a fair chunk of Melee combat to be done, especially in Merge) while Dyson is a member of the all-important Cleric family - and if you forego the GM-level Light Magic spells/effects, having another Shrapmetal caster is always a good thing - it's just his Endurance is abysmal so you basically have to devote an entire round of altars/pilgrimages to bring him up to par.
Last edited by raekuul on Jul 2 2021, 21:42, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Echo » Jul 2 2021, 22:51

We have wildly different approaches to this game :D I'd never take a troll into my party permanently, cause I don't like the race. They could be the best fighters by 10 miles and I still wouldn't care, I don't need a fighter to complete anything in M&M, and if I want one (or two, or four :9), I can just take a Knight or Vampire. And I never saw any reason to leave spots for the forced NPCs since I'll only be forced to keep them for one quest - that's nothing, I just have one of my guys wait in the tavern for a day and then forget Dyson/Overdone ever existed.

Dyson only gave me issues during my very first playthrough when I was new at the game and having a lvl 15 character for the Necromancer keep storming was problematic, but nowadays it's completely irrelevant. I can bring potions, or have another Cleric to pick him up when he has to "participate". Other than that just keep him unconscious so he doesn't draw attention and doesn't kick the bucket :D

I pick my teams based on "what playstyle am I feeling right now? " or "what looks best in this cool armor?" :tongue: I never powergame in M&M and adjust my teams based on objective strength, it's just not necessary - though I understand to some people powergaming is the fun part, all power to them! Same way I have the most fun building a party of lvl 1 scrubs and taking them all the way to the end.

I'd really like to have an option to have all the monsters bolstered from the get-go, but only with all the new attacks. Damage sponges are bleh, but having them start with the new skills might throw another wrench into any kind of habitual pathing. More challenge!

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Xfing » Jul 3 2021, 13:13

Nah I usually just take Overdune and Dyson and complete the quests with them, then go back to my previously established party. Nothing against the troll class at all (might have another troll in the party in fact), but by that point you might simply already have better guys in the party, simple as taht

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Eksekk » Jul 3 2021, 13:46

Idk how it's with clerics, but when siding with necromancers you only have to take Dyson to hit the hidden switch on the wall, then as soon as it's done town portal to ravenshore (the altar will stay activated), boot him and hire your missing party member, then enter temple and complete quest as usual. So all needed fighting can be done as your preferred party.

Overdune is another story, as he needs to be in party when quest is completed and that way your missing party member misses out on some XP (which I consider an oversight). I might make a simple script to fix that, which will require only completing Overdune's quest, without carrying him around (illogical, especially considering the movie that plays, but very QoL).
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 3 2021, 13:49, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 03.06.2021]

Postby Xfing » Jul 3 2021, 15:56

Really, all that's really needed is to initially recruit Overdune and Dyson as "follower" NPCs like the seven dwarves etc, with having the option of adding them to your main party whenever you want. Or dismissing them straight to the Adventurer's Inn.


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