Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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UnknownHuman
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » Apr 28 2018, 8:25

Here is a idea.

Why not make the Inventory like MM9 ?
Image

Its crude but will work. The only papperdoll will be 2 handed weapons. This way we/us can use ALL armor and such without any issues :)
Just a idea.
Last edited by UnknownHuman on Apr 28 2018, 8:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » Apr 28 2018, 19:39

UnknownHuman wrote:Here is a idea.

Why not make the Inventory like MM9 ?

Its crude but will work. The only papperdoll will be 2 handed weapons. This way we/us can use ALL armor and such without any issues :)
Just a idea.

imho i dont think that will work.
mm9 was in much ways changed compared to mm6-8, redoing worn stuff with a non-mm9 engine sounds pretty much work, before its ever going to happen.
Last edited by justl on Apr 29 2018, 6:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Apr 28 2018, 20:18

I'm still collecting weapons and preparing my suggestions for their adjustment. In the meantime, I've got a few things I'd like to share about the game as of now. It still has the following problems:

- In Enroth (and possibly Antagarich), Town Portal takes you to a random place in the map you want to go to, rather than the fountain. When traveling throughout Enroth the same thing happens, you appear at points completely opposite the one you should enter the land at. Same thing happens when using the Dimension Door - the point of entry is super random.
- Skill balance: yeah, there are some adjustments to be made, definitely. I'll suggest a file and attach it here. These would largely be nerfs, except for some buffs like Cleric staff Normal -> Expert. Unarmed and Dodging should also be added for Jadamean classes.
- Monster balance: The algorithm for monster power scaling should be changed somewhat, since right now the weakest monster of the trio gets buffed first, and it's stronger than its supposedly higher-level cousins. Green type monsters are usually the most numerous too - instead I suggest a scaling method that raises the stats of the entire monster family at the same time, proportionately.
- Monster armor class - it should rise much more slowly, if at all. Having peasants with 7 hp and 108 AC at level 45 is amusing to say the least.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » Apr 28 2018, 21:29

Xfing wrote:- In Enroth (and possibly Antagarich), Town Portal takes you to a random place in the map you want to go to, rather than the fountain. When traveling throughout Enroth the same thing happens, you appear at points completely opposite the one you should enter the land at. Same thing happens when using the Dimension Door - the point of entry is super random.


It's not doing that for me. Town Portal is working perfectly fine for me, taking me to the Fountain.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » Apr 29 2018, 8:12

in the tomb of varn, where you have to key the names of the trekkies for the wells ... the answer is displayed directly under the question
Image
its not a big deal, since you know them from the scrolls, but it takes a bit of the fun away :9

justl
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Apr 29 2018, 9:18

Daedros wrote:
Xfing wrote:- In Enroth (and possibly Antagarich), Town Portal takes you to a random place in the map you want to go to, rather than the fountain. When traveling throughout Enroth the same thing happens, you appear at points completely opposite the one you should enter the land at. Same thing happens when using the Dimension Door - the point of entry is super random.


It's not doing that for me. Town Portal is working perfectly fine for me, taking me to the Fountain.


Well for me it's random and quite haphazard. Sometimes it does take me to the fountain, sometimes not. Dimension Door from Jadame to Antagarich for instance took me to a totally random point on top of the mountain next to Tidewater. Going from Castle Ironfist to Bootleg Bay by foot made me start in the upper left corner of the map, drowning in water. This needs checking I would say :P

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » Apr 29 2018, 11:13

the smallest units in mm6 planetary controlcenter sometimes shoot 2 arrows (mastery bow?) instead of lasers
Last edited by justl on Apr 29 2018, 17:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Azon_PL » Apr 29 2018, 15:25

So... As a Wizard you can leran Expert Repair but upon promotion to Necromancer/Lich you loose this possibility - am I right? This is intended?

Also, small proposition/ask. In Might and Magic VII when we choose dark side we can acquire a baby dragon and place him in the Harmondale castle.
Is it possible to add him to the game as a hireable NPC at the castle? (Maybe even with some uniqe portair - dragons don't need paperdolls).
There is no too many reasons to go dark path and this this dragon quests always seems dissatisfied (you just leve him in the castle). I would love to see more hireling with some backstory in MM6 & MM7.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Apr 29 2018, 17:24

Azon_PL wrote:So... As a Wizard you can leran Expert Repair but upon promotion to Necromancer/Lich you loose this possibility - am I right? This is intended?


It's a byproduct of unifnished class balancing for MM8. I'm sure Rodril will get around to fixing it someday, if not I might put forward my own suggestions for changes. First I'm going to suggest updated weapon balance though. I'm quite far along in terms of collecting weapons for the trial, so I should post my suggestions pretty soon :)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » Apr 29 2018, 21:12

Azon_PL wrote:So... As a Wizard you can leran Expert Repair but upon promotion to Necromancer/Lich you loose this possibility - am I right? This is intended?

Also, small proposition/ask. In Might and Magic VII when we choose dark side we can acquire a baby dragon and place him in the Harmondale castle.
Is it possible to add him to the game as a hireable NPC at the castle? (Maybe even with some uniqe portair - dragons don't need paperdolls).
There is no too many reasons to go dark path and this this dragon quests always seems dissatisfied (you just leve him in the castle). I would love to see more hireling with some backstory in MM6 & MM7.

It's the Golem that gets left in Castle Harmondale, not the Baby Dragon. The Baby Dragon sticks in your "Hirelings" bar forever, and you can click on on to "talk" to him. He just says "Growf!"
The "Web Station Beta 5" suggestion that i made on Page 24, would be an incentive to choose the Light Path. Very convenient teleportation around Enroth, Antagarich and Jadame. On the flip side, choosing the Dark path would provide you with "infinite" Blaster Rifles (if you had the Stalt Ore), in that same suggestion.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Apr 29 2018, 21:26

Daedros wrote:
Azon_PL wrote:So... As a Wizard you can leran Expert Repair but upon promotion to Necromancer/Lich you loose this possibility - am I right? This is intended?

Also, small proposition/ask. In Might and Magic VII when we choose dark side we can acquire a baby dragon and place him in the Harmondale castle.
Is it possible to add him to the game as a hireable NPC at the castle? (Maybe even with some uniqe portair - dragons don't need paperdolls).
There is no too many reasons to go dark path and this this dragon quests always seems dissatisfied (you just leve him in the castle). I would love to see more hireling with some backstory in MM6 & MM7.

It's the Golem that gets left in Castle Harmondale, not the Baby Dragon. The Baby Dragon sticks in your "Hirelings" bar forever, and you can click on on to "talk" to him. He just says "Growf!"
The "Web Station Beta 5" suggestion that i made on Page 24, would be an incentive to choose the Light Path. Very convenient teleportation around Enroth, Antagarich and Jadame. On the flip side, choosing the Dark path would provide you with "infinite" Blaster Rifles (if you had the Stalt Ore), in that same suggestion.


That is not a bad suggestion at all. Though I think fixing the existing stuff should take priority, this game still has a ways to go before its state is perfect :P

Like for example this another issue that I've noticed when playing today - the Adventurer's Inns in the three continents are not synced properly and the random hirelings tend to disappear permanently while transitioning between continents. I think hiring actual Jadamean heroes also has something to do with pushing the random ones off the list. This should get looked at. I really enjoyed having access to Dark-promoted classes for flavor, but all of the heroes of this variety disappeared on me :(

Speaking of which, why are Nelix Uriel, Tempus and Blazen Stromlance listed as Black Knights? I would even understand Nelix and Tempus as they're kinda jerks, but Blazen needs to be a Champion, he's a good guy and wants to slay all the Skeletal Dragons and so on :D
Last edited by Xfing on Apr 29 2018, 21:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » Apr 30 2018, 15:56

Xfing wrote:
Daedros wrote:
Azon_PL wrote:So... As a Wizard you can leran Expert Repair but upon promotion to Necromancer/Lich you loose this possibility - am I right? This is intended?

Also, small proposition/ask. In Might and Magic VII when we choose dark side we can acquire a baby dragon and place him in the Harmondale castle.
Is it possible to add him to the game as a hireable NPC at the castle? (Maybe even with some uniqe portair - dragons don't need paperdolls).
There is no too many reasons to go dark path and this this dragon quests always seems dissatisfied (you just leve him in the castle). I would love to see more hireling with some backstory in MM6 & MM7.

It's the Golem that gets left in Castle Harmondale, not the Baby Dragon. The Baby Dragon sticks in your "Hirelings" bar forever, and you can click on on to "talk" to him. He just says "Growf!"
The "Web Station Beta 5" suggestion that i made on Page 24, would be an incentive to choose the Light Path. Very convenient teleportation around Enroth, Antagarich and Jadame. On the flip side, choosing the Dark path would provide you with "infinite" Blaster Rifles (if you had the Stalt Ore), in that same suggestion.


That is not a bad suggestion at all. Though I think fixing the existing stuff should take priority, this game still has a ways to go before its state is perfect :P

Like for example this another issue that I've noticed when playing today - the Adventurer's Inns in the three continents are not synced properly and the random hirelings tend to disappear permanently while transitioning between continents. I think hiring actual Jadamean heroes also has something to do with pushing the random ones off the list. This should get looked at. I really enjoyed having access to Dark-promoted classes for flavor, but all of the heroes of this variety disappeared on me :(

Speaking of which, why are Nelix Uriel, Tempus and Blazen Stromlance listed as Black Knights? I would even understand Nelix and Tempus as they're kinda jerks, but Blazen needs to be a Champion, he's a good guy and wants to slay all the Skeletal Dragons and so on :D

The change that makes Kastore hand out Blaster Rifles in exchange for Stalt Ore would probably be fairly simple to add i'd think. Just add a new conversation topic to Kastore that when clicked, removes 1 Stalt Ore from party inventory and adds 1 Blaster Rifle. The Web Station Beta 5 would be a little more complex. Could just make a big circular room out of the same tiles that are used in the M&M6 Hive dungeon, and have Portal Gates (that look like the Elemental Plane portals in M&M8) lead to all the overland areas of Enroth, Antagarich and Jadame. But yeah, i'd prefer the bug fixes take priority (especially considering the M&M 7 Dark ending is currently bugged).

You could rationalize Blazen Stormlance as a Black Knight, because he had been cursed (which you had to use the Gem of Restoration to restore his "life"), and that curse left a dark taint on him. Although normally, Nelix, Tempus and Blazen start off as Champions already.
Last edited by Daedros on Apr 30 2018, 16:01, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Rodril » Apr 30 2018, 16:09

Patch link have been updated. Chest in "The Mists" have been fixed, for sure now. I thought challenges beacons supposed to reset each two years, disabled it. Monster scaling have been tweaked a lot: monster kinds now scaled at once, monsters properly gain bonuses to speed movement, AC bonus reduced, chance to hit player now affected by bolster too. Thanks.
Boats do not ship to other continents anymore.
Xfing wrote:EDIT: What's wrong with not finding Armageddon books in Shadowspire's dark magic shop? I understand it could be used early on to clear out maps and rack up tons of exp, but it's actually quite tough to say goodbye to it ;P

GM level Light/Dark books available only in Celeste/Pit or as treasures.
Xfing wrote:Longswords (15): 3d3
Tier 1: -2/-2; -1/-1; 0/0;
Tier 2: 2/2; 3/3; 4/4;
Tier 3: 6/6; 7/7; 8/8;
Tier 4: 10/10; 10/11; 11/11;
Tier 5: 13/13; 13/14;
Tier 6: 14/14

Sorry, i have not quiet understand what these numbers mean: -2/-2 - is it modifier to dice values? So new longsword of tier 1.1 should have 1d1 damage? Is not 14/14 too many then? Or is it attack bonus modifier? Unfortunately, engine does not support negative numbers as attack bonuses.
UnknownHuman wrote:Why not make the Inventory like MM9 ?

I've always considered MM's 2D paperdolls as one of the features, i wouldn't exchange it for convenience of adding new armors.
Xfing wrote:- In Enroth (and possibly Antagarich), Town Portal takes you to a random place in the map you want to go to, rather than the fountain. When traveling throughout Enroth the same thing happens, you appear at points completely opposite the one you should enter the land at. Same thing happens when using the Dimension Door - the point of entry is super random.

Fixed it in today's update, should not happen again.
Xfing wrote:Like for example this another issue that I've noticed when playing today - the Adventurer's Inns in the three continents are not synced properly and the random hirelings tend to disappear permanently while transitioning between continents. I think hiring actual Jadamean heroes also has something to do with pushing the random ones off the list. This should get looked at. I really enjoyed having access to Dark-promoted classes for flavor, but all of the heroes of this variety disappeared on me :(

I did mistake in previous update. Random mercenaries should disappear only if total value of their items less than 5000 and they are dead/eradicated for few days. Also note: Adventurer's Inns at diffrent continents are independent: if you dismissed someone at Antagarich, you won't find him neither at Jadame nor Enroth.
I've fixed knights, but changes will take place only in new games.
justl wrote:its not a big deal, since you know them from the scrolls, but it takes a bit of the fun away :9

Answers won't be shown again, thanks. But what's with textures? Do colors looks like that all time?
Azon_PL wrote:Also, small proposition/ask. In Might and Magic VII when we choose dark side we can acquire a baby dragon and place him in the Harmondale castle. Is it possible to add him to the game as a hireable NPC at the castle?

I had it in mind all time during correcting promotion quests, but did not add it because of few unconvenient moments and one real problem.
Problem is, i could not find any good picture to fit new dragon, and i don't want to use one of existing (we already have at least two characters per one portrait). Note, it is not enough to find paperdoll picture, also face animations are required.
Unconvenient moments: no way to promote or teach dragon in Antagarich; having dragon as reward seems a lot more valuable in comparison with druid's reward for promotion.
Azon_PL wrote:As a Wizard you can leran Expert Repair but upon promotion to Necromancer/Lich you loose this possibility - am I right? This is intended?
Yes, you will get your skillpoints back. Right now - yes.
Daedros wrote:The "Web Station Beta 5" suggestion that i made on Page 24, would be an incentive to choose the Light Path. Very convenient teleportation around Enroth, Antagarich and Jadame. On the flip side, choosing the Dark path would provide you with "infinite" Blaster Rifles (if you had the Stalt Ore), in that same suggestion.

"Web Station" is good idea, but i would not let it work this way, because game already have story-driven way to travel between continents: you travel through time, not just space. Traveling through station does not imply time-jumps. Other point, i told it somewhere before, i'm afraid to touch sci-fi elements, especially this station, - it can not be just room with three exits, it require some lore-based details, which do not exist in fact (at least i don't know enough of sci-fi side of MM), and i would not invent it myself, some things look a lot more interesting, when they stays unrevealed.
UnknownHuman wrote:I would like to request if possible to spawn indoors like outdoors if possible :).

Does not the script allow you to do this? Also, replace it with one from today's update, calculating recovery time in turn based mode was violated in previous version.
Last edited by Rodril on Apr 30 2018, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Apr 30 2018, 16:23

Rodril wrote:
Xfing wrote:Longswords (15): 3d3
Tier 1: -2/-2; -1/-1; 0/0;
Tier 2: 2/2; 3/3; 4/4;
Tier 3: 6/6; 7/7; 8/8;
Tier 4: 10/10; 10/11; 11/11;
Tier 5: 13/13; 13/14;
Tier 6: 14/14

Sorry, i have not quiet understand what these numbers mean: -2/-2 - is it modifier to dice values? So new longsword of tier 1.1 should have 1d1 damage? Is not 14/14 too many then? Or is it attack bonus modifier? Unfortunately, engine does not support negative numbers as attack bonuses.


I meant like for example a regular longsword is 3d3 + 0, the first one on my list would be 3d3 - 2, so 3-9 - 2 = 1-7, and so on. The best sword would have 3d3 +14 going by the list above. If you're saying that there can be no negative values for weapon attack and damage in the engine, then we'll have to start with 0, which is quite unfortunate. I'll put forward my proposals for weapon tweaks taking this fact into account once I've collected all the weapons. I've only got a few missing right now.

So while it's not possible to have negative attack/damage stats on weapons - is it possible to set attack and damage separately? For example a weapon that has attack +1 but damage +0? That would make it a lot easier to plot new weapon values.
Last edited by Xfing on Apr 30 2018, 16:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Rodril » Apr 30 2018, 16:28

Xfing wrote:So while it's not possible to have negative attack/damage stats on weapons - is it possible to set attack and damage separately? For example a weapon that has attack +1 but damage +0? That would make it a lot easier to plot new weapon values.

We can edit any value A d B + C, also 3d3 is not binded to weapon type, each longsword can have diffrent A, B and C values.
Last edited by Rodril on Apr 30 2018, 16:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » Apr 30 2018, 16:59

Rodril wrote:
justl wrote:its not a big deal, since you know them from the scrolls, but it takes a bit of the fun away :9

Answers won't be shown again, thanks. But what's with textures? Do colors looks like that all time?

nope, i use the dgvoodoo2 patch too (so no crappy 800x600 textures, but hi res ones in mm6), this happens, when switching with f4 between window and full view (else i couldnt have made the screen)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Apr 30 2018, 18:42

Rodril wrote:
Xfing wrote:So while it's not possible to have negative attack/damage stats on weapons - is it possible to set attack and damage separately? For example a weapon that has attack +1 but damage +0? That would make it a lot easier to plot new weapon values.

We can edit any value A d B + C, also 3d3 is not binded to weapon type, each longsword can have diffrent A, B and C values.


Ok then, I'll take that into account while plotting weapon values. Shame we can't get either negative values or differing ones, but that'll do :P I'm almost done with gathering weapons, all I need to complete is 1h axes, tridents and halberds, and I need only one or two more items of each class to finish. I'll put forward a Word file that describes my suggestions for changes. Kinda sucks that it's not possible to split C into two separate categories, because now we won't be able to make each dagger stronger than another without it being 2d2+15, lol! Though frankly, playing around with A and B could be fun too. Guess I'll do it. I would also suggest including the durability stat of the weapons (i.e. the resistance to breaking) in the equation, but that stat's hidden and only someone who tinkers in the code can see it, but that's probably something you can take into account too.

On an unrelated note, I've noticed a mildly annoying issue you could probably look at - whenever you change continent or load the game, the "always run" settings are reset, and I have to press "u", the default "always run" key to restore it. I don't remember this being an issue in the original game, where you usually just had to press the toggle once and you were set.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Mortis » Apr 30 2018, 21:22

Hello everyone:) Very nice job with this mod Rodril, congratulations.
I have question for you - is it possible to change skill effects or switch them with others?
For example, I like dual wielding warriors but why only daggers and swords can be used in the second hand? I would like to see troll/palladin using two maces in both hands or axe in right and mace/club/hammer in left hand. It could be done by changing Master skill effect of maces. Present one provides stun possibility, but in my opinion stun is very similar to paralyze, so can be changed to enable using maces in left hand.

Another aspect of skill's effect change is connected to monks. I always love this class in many games including MM7, but in my opinion monks here deserve some changes. I think that players should have two options of possible monk.
First, lets call this "armed" monk- you wear leather armor and fight with Staff, boosted by armaster skill.
Second is "pure" monk- without any weapon or armor. You can use only Unarmed and Dodge skills which in this case should be changed to fit this new class option.
At the beginning -GM effect of Unarmed should be changed to be GM effect of Dodge. Its more logical to me that if you have dodge ability you are able to evade incoming attacks. Then, instead of evading chance, GM Unarmed may have tripple or even quintiple bonus to attack and damage.
Why that? Becouse comparison of pure damage from Unarmed skill with possible damage from any weapons shows us that without any boost from other items(jewelery for exemple) increasing Unarmed skill, unarmed damages are very weak.
Monks who dont use weapons lose many possible effects like vampirism or additional elemental damage(i dont include hammerhands spell, becouse it is spell, no effect). To balance this, you could change Hands of the master artifact, adding some elemental or ligh/dark damage to each attack.
Reasuming- unarmed and dogde cant be more combined with any weapon or armor. Each player should have free way to choose if he want to play armed(Staff,sword whatever) or unarmed monk.
Let me know please if such modification of skills is technically possible

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Apr 30 2018, 22:00

Can the value of the B variable you mentioned be 1? For example "2d1". I know a die can't technically have 1 side, but it really helps me in balancing the daggers :P If I can't have 2d1, then it'll get a bit troublesome making the daggers not too strong :P

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby waltc » Apr 30 2018, 22:34

justl wrote:in the tomb of varn, where you have to key the names of the trekkies for the wells ... the answer is displayed directly under the question
Image
its not a big deal, since you know them from the scrolls, but it takes a bit of the fun away :9

justl


IIRC, if you do not have the necessary scrolls for the appropriate Ship's Officer, the space below the questions remains blank...if you have the scroll then the answer is automatically placed--much more "fun" than trying to laboriously open the scroll and type it in while radiation is eating you alive, imo. Still have to have the scrolls to get in.
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