Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 4 2019, 17:18

ZOMBIE VARIATIONS VOICE SETS ARE DONE.
Here's the video showcasting the result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWP8J_RF1jM

Contains: Classic Zombie Remaster (purely optional), Ghost Dragons (Dragon Zombies internally), Minotaur Zombies and Troll Zombies

And here are the files -
Direct download: http://www.templayer.cz/storage/MMMerge%20-%20New%20Voicesets%20%3b%20Remasters%20-%20Zombie%20Variations%20(Templayer).7z
Direct download originals for comparison: http://www.templayer.cz/storage/MMMerge%20-%20New%20Voicesets%20%3b%20Remasters%20-%20Originals%20for%20Comparison%20(Templayer).7z
Ulož.to download: https://www.ulozto.net/!8dAIMJkgfcOx/mmmerge-new-voicesets-remasters-zombie-variations-templayer-7z
Ulož.to download originals for comparison: https://www.ulozto.net/!dV1EM33diruO/mmmerge-new-voicesets-remasters-originals-for-comparison-templayer-7z

Those are "Source" files, i.e. not yet compressed enough for the game. Adding them to the game will need some coding.

I also did remaster the original Zombie voices, that should be purely optional, even for people that want everything else (i.e. want to have human/elf/dwarf/goblin zombies keep their Zombie voice and only add additional ones)
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 4 2019, 17:27

Xfing wrote:Oh, and as for zombies turning into liches - that's kind of a weird notion IMO. Turning into a lich is all about preservation of intelligence, while a zombie has none left from when it was alive. Vampires are fine, but zombies were always more of an undesirable state than a full-fledged race with potential for growth and development. Just my 2 cents tho

And yet if you download the file with the original voiceset - zombies in MM7 are smarter and better speaking than Trolls in MM8.... (their sentences are more complex, etc.)

So that is MM lore for you. Not Heroes lore, mind you - unless there is a zombie hero somewhere there (some of them DO sorta look like a zombie to me).

Maybe creating a Lich from a zombie gives back the ability to develop intellect and learn.

Lore-wise, Liches in MM have been skeletons with preserved intellect. In DnD, there are zombie-based liches too. I mean it is the only way to have a half functioning pennis, after all. Vampires do not have a pulse, thus there is no pressure. That means no erection! :D :D :D :D
Ehm. I digress.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 4 2019, 17:59

Xfing wrote:That's a compromise for gameplay more than a lore break IMO. Heroes always did plenty of that. Like having an army of potentially tens of thousands represented on the map by one guy on a horse for example. Necessary limitations brought on by the mechanics.

Exactly, thus the entire "trees-forest" comparison. Gameplay compromise does make for some messy lore nonetheless, but hey, messy lore is always more fun than neat one for obvious reasons. :D

Xfing wrote: Look i'm not fundamentally opposed to what you guys are doing, but I just feel the order of doing things is a bit off. The game is still missing some integration features, mostly repaints of armor and other gear. I'd do that myself if I knew two **** about photoshop, you can trust me on that. Also, call me weird but playing dress-up with all the stuff available in all 3 games would be replay value in and of itself. For example the red cloak feom MM6 would look absolutely kickass on Clerics dressed in all gold (classic mm8 look). So yeah, I'd even be willing to pay someone to finish up all that stuff. That way I could start properly enjoying the optional additions too.

I'm not a Photoshop user myself, I use GIMP ... and frankly, when it comes to armor repaints as well as changes I'd be all over that if 1. I'd have source files of missing armors as well as weapons, boots, and cloaks (that Doomsday Cloak NEEDS to be implemented!) and 2. if I'd have any idea wth am I actually supposed to do. :wall: I'm trash at repainting/transforming armors and accessories exactly how people like you would wish them to be repainted/transformed in order to sit on MM8 paperdolls, thus I'm all over paperdolls and portraits.

Xfing wrote:Ironically, it's the opposite of lore-breaking. The reason why Forge was scrapped was because more people played Heroes than MM so they had no idea how appropriate it actually was. That and supposed "aesthetic and conceptual clashes" and other **** like that :/ the unit's name is Cyber Zombie.

Shame, really, as I'd gladly fight those crazy units both in a Heroes and MM games, no matter how sharply they would clash.

Xfing wrote:Having zombie and lich sprites for non-humanoid races and dwarves is something that needs to make its way into the core game, let alone be optional, lol :P

But, as for zombies turning into liches - that's kind of a weird notion IMO. Turning into a lich is all about preservation of intelligence, while a zombie has none left from when it was alive. Vampires are fine and would probably be even possible, but zombies were always more of an undesirable state than a full-fledged race with potential for growth and development. Much less becoming a sorcerer with those high intelligence requirements, while being a zombie removes like 90% of it for your character. Also, a living person turning into a zombie or a lich always seemed to me like a forked path rather than a sequential one... Just my 2 cents tho

Touché, thus I'm making them first, at least when it comes to Minotaurs, that is. Question about Trolls, really. ^^;
I'd consider it a forked path just as well, but I'd be doing Zombie Liches just as "more options" addition, since well, gotta leave no stone unturned so that weird oversights like the Dwarf Lich paperdoll doesn't happen again. :jester:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 4 2019, 18:07

Templayer wrote:So that is MM lore for you. Not Heroes lore, mind you - unless there is a zombie hero somewhere there (some of them DO sorta look like a zombie to me).

Finneas Wilmar was apparently one, from what I've got. Sandro's puppet-king ... but that's just me.

Templayer wrote:Lore-wise, Liches in MM have been skeletons with preserved intellect. In DnD, there are zombie-based liches too. I mean it is the only way to have a half functioning pennis, after all. Vampires do not have a pulse, thus there is no pressure. That means no erection! :D :D :D :D
Ehm. I digress.

Good Ancients, bloody "bone*" joke right there as well as the most random fact right there. ... I love it. :jester: :D :D
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Jun 4 2019, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 4 2019, 18:26

SpectralDragon wrote:I'd consider it a forked path just as well, but I'd be doing Zombie Liches just as "more options" addition, since well, gotta leave no stone unturned so that weird oversights like the Dwarf Lich paperdoll doesn't happen again. :jester:

Some people here: "Who would make a Zombie Lich?"
In the past, NWC offices: "I mean who would make a Dwarf Lich?"
:D :D :D :D
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 4 2019, 18:32

Templayer wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:I'd consider it a forked path just as well, but I'd be doing Zombie Liches just as "more options" addition, since well, gotta leave no stone unturned so that weird oversights like the Dwarf Lich paperdoll doesn't happen again. :jester:

Some people here: "Who would make a Zombie Lich?"
In the past, NWC offices: "I mean who would make a Dwarf Lich?"
:D :D :D :D


Just goes to show times aren't that different after all. Hopefully you're keeping backups of everything both you and me sent in here, so that they don't get lost when Rodril finally comes here again together with Jamesx, as these 2 will be SWAMPED with all additions, ha ha ha! I know I do for my assets. :D :D :D
Is always good to have more options after all, even if we might be the only people using them. ;)
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 4 2019, 18:55

Templayer wrote:Maybe creating a Lich from a zombie gives back the ability to develop intellect and learn.

Wait, do you mean Zombie is a race now? (like I proposed) Or do you mean an easter egg style: killing your sorcerer, reviving as a zombie and then promoting him to lich would result in a different lich? I thought you wanted to turn lich into a zombie upon revival, which makes no sense at all to me.

SpectralDragon wrote:I'd be doing Zombie Liches just as "more options" addition, since well, gotta leave no stone unturned so that weird oversights like the Dwarf Lich paperdoll doesn't happen again. :jester:

I don't get it.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 4 2019, 19:17

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:Maybe creating a Lich from a zombie gives back the ability to develop intellect and learn.

Wait, do you mean Zombie is a race now? (like I proposed) Or do you mean an easter egg style: killing your sorcerer, reviving as a zombie and then promoting him to lich would result in a different lich? I thought you wanted to turn lich into a zombie upon revival, which makes no sense at all to me.

I wouldn´t be surprised at all if Zombies would be a race later down the line, even if Rodril might not be on this boat at all. I´m considering that income just as well, if you ask me.

GrayFace wrote:I don't get it.

Chat to Templayer about it, not me, as I cannot provide more info about that nowadays aside the obvious oversight of Dwarf Liches becoming human due to missing paperdolls of them in vanilla MM7 that I put as an example in order to not let such oversights be blatantly visible in the Merge, no matter how crazy would people go on it (if they would go, that is). My sincere apologies. :ashamed:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 4 2019, 19:52

SpectralDragon wrote:
Templayer wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:I'd consider it a forked path just as well, but I'd be doing Zombie Liches just as "more options" addition, since well, gotta leave no stone unturned so that weird oversights like the Dwarf Lich paperdoll doesn't happen again. :jester:

Some people here: "Who would make a Zombie Lich?"
In the past, NWC offices: "I mean who would make a Dwarf Lich?"
:D :D :D :D


Just goes to show times aren't that different after all. Hopefully you're keeping backups of everything both you and me sent in here, so that they don't get lost when Rodril finally comes here again together with Jamesx, as these 2 will be SWAMPED with all additions, ha ha ha! I know I do for my assets. :D :D :D
Is always good to have more options after all, even if we might be the only people using them. ;)

I have mine backupped, but I do not backup yours. It is my lifelong quest to teach everyone about the importance of backups, not doing it for them. :P

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:Maybe creating a Lich from a zombie gives back the ability to develop intellect and learn.

Wait, do you mean Zombie is a race now? (like I proposed) Or do you mean an easter egg style: killing your sorcerer, reviving as a zombie and then promoting him to lich would result in a different lich? I thought you wanted to turn lich into a zombie upon revival, which makes no sense at all to me.

SpectralDragon wrote:I'd be doing Zombie Liches just as "more options" addition, since well, gotta leave no stone unturned so that weird oversights like the Dwarf Lich paperdoll doesn't happen again. :jester:

I don't get it.

As far as I know it is. Isn't it? It's the race with index 10 last time I checked (a few days ago). Also I finished MM7 playing as a Zombie Paladin. :D
And no, I didn't mean changing Liches to Zombies (never did, you have misread that), but Zombies (both created by the Unlocker, which I didn't check if it can do actually, ... WAIT. I remember removing the Zombie race from the unlocker due to it causing a crash, as back then the Zombie paperdolls weren't repainted yet. That is how Jamesx and I found that he didn't repaint ALL the MM7 characters, AND I DO NOT REMEMBER IF I REVERTED THE CHANGE TO THE UNLOCKER AFTER HE REPAINTED THEM! CRUD.) both as a race and as a condition turning into a Liche. Even though if you were to convert a zombie-condition character into a Lich, he should become a Zombie Lich permanently, no more reverting.

Vanilla MM7 forgot about the fact that Dwarfs could become Liches. Either that or they decided that no-one would do it anyway. And that is why Dwarves gain height upon promotion to a Lich. :D
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 4 2019, 19:59

Templayer wrote:I have mine backupped, but I do not backup yours. It is my lifelong quest to teach everyone about the importance of backups, not doing it for them. :P

Well, I had backups of both my AND your stuff, just nicely bundling them together, so that all can be sent in one piece like a giant cake delivery for the MMMerge. :D :D Also in case something unpleasant happens to your own backups. You can never be too careful. ;)

Even if I dunno if you´d like that. :tongue:
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Last edited by SpectralDragon on Jun 4 2019, 20:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 4 2019, 21:33

Templayer wrote:As far as I know it is. Isn't it? It's the race with index 10 last time I checked (a few days ago).

Ah, I still think in terms of MM8's race-classes. I proposed Zombie as a race-class back then (probably before separation of races and classes). Races alone are basically just portraits, which is also better than zombies being relegated just to a super rare condition.

Templayer wrote:And no, I didn't mean changing Liches to Zombies (never did, you have misread that),

I didn't. I only read "Zombie Lich" mentioned by SpectralDragon and present on a picture and assumed the rest.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 4 2019, 21:37

GrayFace wrote:I didn't. I only read "Zombie Lich" mentioned by SpectralDragon and present on a picture and assumed the rest.


Thank the Ancients that Zombie as a condition (or a race-class, I dunno) isn't as buggy in MMMerge as I is in vanilla MM7 ... I hope. I basically did a test on what happened if I'd turn a Lich into a Zombie in MM7 and well, that was the result. :jester:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Xfing » Jun 4 2019, 22:36

SpectralDragon wrote:Shame, really, as I'd gladly fight those crazy units both in a Heroes and MM games, no matter how sharply they would clash.


You might in the relatively near future, but well, too early to say anything :P

SpectralDragon wrote:
GrayFace wrote:I didn't. I only read "Zombie Lich" mentioned by SpectralDragon and present on a picture and assumed the rest.


Thank the Ancients that Zombie as a condition (or a race-class, I dunno) isn't as buggy in MMMerge as I is in vanilla MM7 ... I hope. I basically did a test on what happened if I'd turn a Lich into a Zombie in MM7 and well, that was the result. :jester:


I kinda did the same thing earlier today and even posted the results in the MM7 patch thread. That's seriously messed up for liches in vanilla MM7 alright
Last edited by Xfing on Jun 4 2019, 22:38, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 4 2019, 22:42

Xfing wrote:You might in the relatively near future, but well, too early to say anything :P

I kinda did the same thing earlier today and even posted the results in the MM7 patch thread. That's seriously messed up for liches in vanilla MM7 alright


In Heroes games or MM games? :tongue:

Very much and yes, I even went further and tried to get that cured at the Temple. For some reason I got my pre-Lich Dwarf back that way and he gained his old voice back as well, so yeah, Zombie condition in vanilla MM7 is one buggy buggy boat. :D
I did that test on a backup save, so no damage was done.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Xfing » Jun 5 2019, 4:12

Exactly that bug was reported to Grayface in the MM7 thread. Not to mention there used to be another bugged zombie aspect - if you suffered a full party death with zombies present, their paperdoll, portrait and voice would be permanently changed to the zombie's (good condition and all). Makes me think the implementation of the zombie condition was a wee bit rushed in the game, no wonder they chose to just axe it in mm8.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 5 2019, 5:00

Xfing wrote:Exactly that bug was reported to Grayface in the MM7 thread. Not to mention there used to be another bugged zombie aspect - if you suffered a full party death with zombies present, their paperdoll, portrait and voice would be permanently changed to the zombie's (good condition and all). Makes me think the implementation of the zombie condition was a wee bit rushed in the game, no wonder they chose to just axe it in mm8.


Oh yeah, that too. Both me and my bro found that bug more as a feature than a bug though, as I remember we basically competed on who˙s gonna get it first just so then we can play it to the end of the game (I bet this is what Templayer meant when he said he finished the game with "Paladin Zombie"). :D :lol: I call it "Permanent Zombie" ... and tbh, I˙d totally recreate it again on a Ghost (aka Zombie) Dragon just so I could hear his voice permanently if Templayer´s amazing voice pack for both Liches and Zombies gets implemented into the MMMerge.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 5 2019, 12:34

Rodril wrote:

GrayFace wrote:bump

Sorry for interrupting, but I have these questions:

-> Is there any plan in adding Merge-specific enemies together with the lore?
Reason is that I was thinking of making a general monster sprite of Ghost Dragon (I'll add reasons for it in an accompanying note, one of which was them living Dragons being, well, sentient, thus technically having souls still) and then have it populate some areas of Garrote Gorge, Deyja, Shadowspire and maybe Regna (aka places where dragon fights happened/are still happening in the past according to what people and artifact descriptions say, like Wyrm Spitter's and Ebonest's) ... and if that is impossible, then well, you can use it in MMMerge Credits Dungeon. :D For that I'd need Bone Dragon sprite collection straight from the game, so that my edited ones don't cause any problems when trying to be ported back into the game. ^^; When it comes to their strengths, I'm leaving that to you both unless asked, one just needs to be named "Ghost Dragon".

-> Is there any possibility to get regular Lich (he, she) and Zombie portraits and paperdolls?
Mainly for testing and further editing attempts as well as reference, as we still have Vampire and Zombie Liches to do. ^^;

Thanks in advance!

Good Ancients, I feel like I'm bloody Zanthora of this mod. :D :D :D ... and since I was also proposed to do a Vampire Dragon as well, yeah. But well, gotta finish Zombies and Liches first. :tongue:
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Jun 5 2019, 12:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Pixoala » Jun 5 2019, 16:00

New bug: MM8 Escaton riddle:
I give him the answer 1] Prison 2] L'intérieur 3] Oeuf and nothing works (I tried english words too Prison - Inside - Egg).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby Xfing » Jun 5 2019, 17:04

Pixoala wrote:New bug: MM8 Escaton riddle:
I give him the answer 1] Prison 2] L'intérieur 3] Oeuf and nothing works (I tried english words too Prison - Inside - Egg).


Not sure how the French localization works, but keep in mind that in the English version the three words formed a sentence of sorts. Prison inside egg. Try "Prison Dans Oeuf" maybe?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 31.05.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 5 2019, 17:18

First one done:
Image
Parts of the video are almost uploaded, gotta edit them together.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.


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