Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 16.03.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Phobos » Feb 12 2019, 4:56

NotABroom wrote:So, I hope I am not listing bugs that have already been reported. If so, I apologise for not reading properly.
A couple of those are not bugs.

Mana regeneration is now associated with the Meditation skill. It's not part of the og games, but people seemed to think it was a good idea with the bolstered monsters.

The floor path in the Abandoned Temple can only be seen with sufficient Perception or if you fall through the floor twice or so. It's always been like this as far as I know.

The cactuses are a comic relief. They once accidentally appeared as Arena enemies that you couldn't defeat and they caused the game to crash, but because they were so funny, Rodril made them into actual enemies.
Last edited by Phobos on Feb 12 2019, 4:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Daedros » Feb 12 2019, 5:29

Xfing wrote:Adding artifact wands would necessitate generating lore for them, which is too much work. We had better stick to the wands that we know, which there is plenty of as it is, and just stratify them like we have all the remaining pieces of equipment! There is no need to change cost or item tiers, but since there are now 15 wands, with 3 of each type doing exactly the same thing as the other 2, maybe it would be a nice idea to spread their spells around, so there is less redundancy?


Yeah, i was thinking Artifact Wands, due to the fact that since Artifacts will now respawn 1 year after you no longer have them, you can expend all the Charges on an Artifact wand, and acquire it again the next year with full charges. You need at least 20+ Alchemy/Water Magic skill to recharge a Wand to 100%. Plus, whenever i decide to "save scum" loot, whenever i see "Wand", i always just reload without even checking it, because very few wands (except the Paralyze Wand) are very useful. Plus, there are currently no "beneficial/buff" wands, they're all offensive. Which is why i thought a T6/Artifact Wand with Power Cure charges would be great.

NotABroom wrote:So, I hope I am not listing bugs that have already been reported. If so, I apologise for not reading properly.

My minotaur cleric regenerates spell points without having any item that would do that for him since I started the game. With increasing level it seems to get more. It is almost as effective as regeneration spell for health. It's quite convinient, but I don't suppose it's meant to be that way. ^^

I also just had some flying cactuses (or is it cacti?) in the arena. They have 180 hp and don't seem to be very dangerous. I have a video incase anyone would like to see that. Yes, flying cactuses.

The Meditation skill grants a % based SP regen, it's effectiveness is based on mastery level (Expert/Master/GM) which stacks with that from items.
The flying Cacti are from the Breach, which is a new area introduced in the merge.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Templayer » Feb 12 2019, 16:40

MagicIsMight wrote:
And now I'm trying to install it on Linux. Original GoG game, Grayface, Editor, and all that works fine for me, but the way that Dropbox packages the files makes me have to manually extract some directories one-by-one.

For instance, /Scripts/Structs/After dir is put in /Scripts/structs/After (notice the capitalization). Linux distinguishes between capitalization unlike Windows, so it must have something to do with that.

But I think I got all the files extracted where they should be, and first error had something to do with /Data/Tables -- also a set of files I had to move there manually, as they got into /data/Tables...

Edit: and I missed the "4. Copy files from "Game files" folder to MM8 folder, replacing existing." step. Where does the "Game files" directory come from?
I only see the mod creating it...
Edit2: I see! they were in the first Dropbox directory link! I downloaded them from Grayface as I like to get stuff from their original source, lol.
But I will install them now and see!

Edit3: It works fine now! I just installed the Game files! So I removed the error messages from this post, as they are only relevant for dumbasses like me XD

Edit4:
So everything works fine now, though first it was windowed, I had to use the setup utility, and then start the game, whereupon it crashed, but then it all working.
Except getting these kinds of messages when opening shops/houses:

Code: Select all

Exception Exception in module mm8.exe at 000651FA.
Can't load roomrch2.smk in file: D:\mm7Src\MM8\MMVIII\Code\Video.cpp at line number: 935.


Edit5:
Okay, that was yet another capitalization error due to Linux making a different copy of a file with a different capitalization. In this case it didn't overwrite the original mightdod.vid, as the new file was Mightdod.vid, lol.

So it's a bit harder to install it on Linux. But now EVERYTHING works! (I hope)...

Edit6: Yes, everything works smoothly! But why did you remove the "sword through the earth" easter egg in Castle Ironfist? ^^
At least that's my understanding of that anomalous spike in the terrain is. Or an artifact left from testing the game.

Anyways, it would be nice if you could provide a manually generated zip file, as Dropbox does something strange with capitalization.

Edit7: (man...)
Or perhaps I can write an installation script for Linux, yes, that would be pretty easy. It could even download all the parts and install them in the right sequence!

Added to the Tutorial Tracker as Running the Merge on Linux. Might be useful for other people facing the same problems.
Also I believe there should be an install script for Linuxes and an installer + installation checker / updater for Windows. Something that would check if files aren't corrupted. My current installation is borked, haven't had the time to check why exactly.

Dohor wrote:Hello guys, after few years I wanted to give my favorite series another try (I played MM6, MM7, MM8, MM9 many many times) and this project looks like a great starting point.
I think I made a mistake during install and I have some issues in game, so I am trying to reinstall it. I hope it works. In the meantime I thought I would introduce myself.

Hi! I'm the tracker maintainer! ^_^

Daedros wrote:Due to her dodging, my Lvl 225 Ninja with 2,377 Health/257 AC/600+ Resists/77 total Unarmed, can outlast my Lvl 225 Great Wyrm with 4,270 Health/632 AC/700+ Resists, lol. Dodge works against melee strikes as well. Going from 60% Dodge Chance, to 82%, means you get hit less than half as often as before.
But yeah, if you want to use the skill points to pump a skill all the way up to 60, then you deserve the power. Still funny watching my Ninja's portrait bob up and down constantly when fighting.

What else would you expect for an lvl 225 super ninja? :D If that ninja could leave the party, he/she should just have the jump spell permanently. xD

Daedros wrote:Not exactly a bug, but something that should be addressed. When sneaking into Eofol with a low level party, as soon as you enter Eofol, Archibald will talk to you and give you a Blaster Pistol, even if you're not on the correct quest. Ideally, that dialogue/pistol should only pop up if you're on the correct quest.

Also, now that Artifacts will respawn if you sell/lose the Artifact, any chance at Artifact Wands being added? They should contain spells that don't normally appear on Wands, such as an artifact Wand with 30-50 Power Cure Charges, or Wands of Armageddon/Resurrection with just 5 Charges, Wand of Dragon Breath with 10 Charges, Wand of Enchant Item with 20 or so charges, or Wands of Invisibility, Fly, Summon Wisp, and Sunray.


The first is definitely a glitch. Added to the bug tracker.
Second added to the Suggestion Tracker.

@all and @Rodril
Coloured the suggestions based on Rodril's implementation state / his decisions in accordance to the comments he made on them on the tracker.

MagicIsMight wrote:Some problems I've found so far in MM6:
*Obsidian ground sounds like wetland.
*Archers in tower in Blackshire are hostile. Pretty funny how you have to move around and take cover when you're in town ^^
*Wands and clubs on bottom level in magic shops blocks rings on upper level.

Added to the bug tracker.
MMMerge Task Tracker (= Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby justl » Feb 12 2019, 16:56

Templayer wrote:
Daedros wrote:Not exactly a bug, but something that should be addressed. When sneaking into Eofol with a low level party, as soon as you enter Eofol, Archibald will talk to you and give you a Blaster Pistol, even if you're not on the correct quest. Ideally, that dialogue/pistol should only pop up if you're on the correct quest.

Also, now that Artifacts will respawn if you sell/lose the Artifact, any chance at Artifact Wands being added? They should contain spells that don't normally appear on Wands, such as an artifact Wand with 30-50 Power Cure Charges, or Wands of Armageddon/Resurrection with just 5 Charges, Wand of Dragon Breath with 10 Charges, Wand of Enchant Item with 20 or so charges, or Wands of Invisibility, Fly, Summon Wisp, and Sunray.


The first is definitely a glitch. Added to the bug tracker.
Second added to the Suggestion Tracker.

Added to the bug tracker.


hi,

this blasterpistol thing was always this way, even in original mm7 - i wouldnt consider it a bug but a feature.
the moment you are strong enough to go through the tunnels to eofol you are sure advanced enough to receive that thing.
maybe you couldnt handle it at first without the skill, but it was always nice to have

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Templayer » Feb 12 2019, 17:08

justl wrote:
Templayer wrote:
Daedros wrote:Not exactly a bug, but something that should be addressed. When sneaking into Eofol with a low level party, as soon as you enter Eofol, Archibald will talk to you and give you a Blaster Pistol, even if you're not on the correct quest. Ideally, that dialogue/pistol should only pop up if you're on the correct quest.

Also, now that Artifacts will respawn if you sell/lose the Artifact, any chance at Artifact Wands being added? They should contain spells that don't normally appear on Wands, such as an artifact Wand with 30-50 Power Cure Charges, or Wands of Armageddon/Resurrection with just 5 Charges, Wand of Dragon Breath with 10 Charges, Wand of Enchant Item with 20 or so charges, or Wands of Invisibility, Fly, Summon Wisp, and Sunray.


The first is definitely a glitch. Added to the bug tracker.
Second added to the Suggestion Tracker.

Added to the bug tracker.


hi,

this blasterpistol thing was always this way, even in original mm7 - i wouldnt consider it a bug but a feature.
the moment you are strong enough to go through the tunnels to eofol you are sure advanced enough to receive that thing.
maybe you couldnt handle it at first without the skill, but it was always nice to have

Just because it is a vanilla glitch doesn't mean it isn't a glitch. Also what if you didn't get the quest it doesn't make sense I think.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Templayer » Feb 12 2019, 17:11

van Schevikhoven wrote:Hi everyone!

I just started over mm7 and by coincidence, found this merge which is just simply awesome! Thank you so much all of you contributors!

I tried to read through the current 84 pages of discussion, so please excuse me if these have been discussed earlier on. I got some questions / ideas on my mind, and i'm so excited about this, that i just have to get them off my chest =)

1.) Bolstering enemies and keeping the game challenging for all three continents is a big challenge, that's true. Now the bolster option is great, and works. I'm a big fan of coming back to dungeons and kicking the sh*t out of the monsters who gave me a hard time earlier. This is one of the rewards of leveling, getting better gear and training skills.

I have two ideas of bolstering:
1A.) Now instead of having a bolster where low level enemies are raised to your level, could monster level be adjusted at a steeper slope, so that high level monsters become very tough, and low level monsters stay low level. Essentially, as a function of the monster level. Perhaps as an option besides bolstering and level matching?

Pro's:
- Levelling is rewarding
- Increases challenge for high level parties
- Forces cross-continent questing and levelling
Cons:
- Forces cross-continent questing and levelling
- Perhaps not that straight forward for the storyline, as this could block certain areas.
- Not very well suited for playing per continent.


1B.) A continent based slope, where monster level on the first continent is mLvl*1, second mLvl*2 and the final continent mLvl*3. Either by selecting the order, or using stored(?) data on the order the continents are visited.
Pro's:
- Leveling is still rewarding
- Increased challenge for the second and third continent
- Doesn't force, but keeps the motivation for cross-continent exploration
Cons:
- Doesn't scale very well for players who like to criss-cross between continents.


The functions and math above is kept simple. The mathematical formula is not what i'm asking, it's the concept in general.

Added to the Suggestion Tracker. The other thing wasn't, because it goes against the logic behind the Merge.

Xfing wrote:
Adding artifact wands would necessitate generating lore for them, which is too much work. We had better stick to the wands that we know, which there is plenty of as it is, and just stratify them like we have all the remaining pieces of equipment! There is no need to change cost or item tiers, but since there are now 15 wands, with 3 of each type doing exactly the same thing as the other 2, maybe it would be a nice idea to spread their spells around, so there is less redundancy?

Of note though is the fact that all the wands that were ever in all the 3 games never carried party effects, so stuff like Power Cure or Lloyds Beacon would have to be out the picture if we want to preserve the original feel and function of the wands. Only monster effects were ever on the wands - which of course still gives us room to introduce some nice new spells.

Let's take a look:

Tier 1 wands: Wand (MM6), Wand (MM7), Witch Wand (MM8). - 35 base charges, 1000 gold
Spells: Stun, Poison Spray, Firebolt, Harm, Sparks
Suggested spread:
Wand (MM6): Sparks, Firebolt
Wand (MM7): Stun, Fate (new, added spell so that every wand has 2 - casts Fate on a target monster)
Witch Wand (MM8): Harm, Poison Spray

Tier 2 wands:
Fairy Wand (MM6), Fairy Wand (MM7), Shaman Wand (MM8). - 30 base charges, 1500 gold
Spells: Ice Bolt, Mind Blast, Spirit Lash, Light Bolt, Deadly Swarm
Suggested spread:
Fairy Wand (MM6): Mind Blast, Slow (added spell, enchantment name would be "Of Slowing")
Fairy Wand (MM7): Light Bolt, Ice Bolt
Shaman Wand (MM8): Spirit Lash, Deadly Swarm

Tier 3 wands:
Alacorn Wand (MM6), Alacorn Wand (MM7), Wizard Wand (MM8). - 25 base charges - 2000 gold
Spells: Fireball, Acid Burst, Lightning Bolt, Blades, Berserk
Suggested spread:
Alacorn Wand (MM6): Blades, Berserk
Alacorn Wand (MM7): Acid Burst, Blind (added spell - the Dark Elf ability of Blind. Enchant name "of blinding")
Wizard Wand (MM8): Fireball, Lightning Bolt

Tier 4 wands:
Arcane Wand (MM6), Arcane Wand (MM7), Serpent Wand (MM8). - 20 base charges, 2500 gold
Spells: Ice Blast, Flying Fist, Paralyze, Rock Blast, Toxic Cloud
Suggested spread:
Arcane Wand (MM6): Rock Blast, Paralyze
Arcane Wand (MM7): Ice Blast, Inferno (added spell)
Serpent Wand (MM8): Flying Fist, Toxic Cloud - note that in MM8 a Serpent Wand carrying Toxic Cloud will still be called "Arcane Wand of Clouds" - which is probably an oversight from development days and should be changed back to "Serpent Wand"!

Tier 5 wands:
Mystic Wand (MM6), Necrotic Wand (MM8). - 15 base charges, 3000 gold
Spells: Implosion, Incinerate, Shrinking, Shrapmetal, Mass Distortion
Suggested spread:
Mystic Wand (MM6): Shrinking, Mass Distortion, Incinerate
Necrotic Wand (MM8): Implosion, Shrapmetal, Dark Grasp (added spell, "of the Dark Grasp" enchantment name).

Tier 6 wand (this baby looks the nicest of all them wands, why not have it carry the best spells on it?). These would have a base cap of 10 charges, compared to tier 5's base 15 charges, and a value of 4000 gold as opposed to tier 5's 3000, also only appear in tier 6 treasure hoards, therefore unavailable from stores.):
Mystic Wand (MM7): Sunray (of Sun Rays), Dragon Breath, Armageddon, Darkfire, Souldrinker (of Soul Drinking)

No idea how to rename these wands so they're all different from each other by name, and I don't think it's even necessary, even though they have differing flavor text. But maybe for the sake of it, we should. Tier 6 could use a rename at the very least - something like "Ultimate Wand" would perhaps be nice.

Added to the Suggestion Tracker as an elaboration.

Xfing wrote:EDIT: Bug report:
- Bolster doesn't work in certain places still. Last time I reported the Plane of Air, today I noticed it's the same in the Lincoln.
- I found another Ring of Fusion and Staff of Elements just today, even though the artifacts/relics were supposed to be one-only until you no longer possess them. Perhaps a flag needs to be added to consider the items to be in your possession when they're in the inventories of characters in the Adventurer's Guild? I don't seem to have this sort of problem with MM6 or MM7 artifacts though - whenever I find artifacts from these games, they always seem to be ones that I'm still missing. The issue appears to only touch MM8 artifacts/relics.
EDIT 2: Scratch the above - I also found a Valeria, which I already had too, and it's from MM6.
- With the new Essence potions (and perhaps Potion of the Gods/Pure Resistance potions), when trying to drink the potion a second time, there is a prompt saying "Potion cannot be used that way", while with trying to drink the previous potions there is no such prompt - the character refuses to drink such a potion and the smiling animation is displayed. It would be nice to have these reactions uniform for all the potions, old and new.
- The Essence of Luck recipe in the notes only includes Haste + Heroism (or just the first recipe you use to mix it), and doesn't add the other two on successful mixes.

Added to the Bug Tracker.

NotABroom wrote:I have a party of one priest and four knights, but when I click "promote necromancers", the activated character gets turned into a lich (even though he is a knight). I mean, I always wanted to play a lich knight, but it actually even changes my characters class to "lich" as well. And at that point I did not even bring the Book of Khel (only the jars).

The spear skill does not exactly what the description says. It says attack damage is added at expert, but it does that only from master level on.

There is a spot in the garrot gorge dragon cave where you can fall through the ground into the part of the cave below. It is on the left wall in the first large "room" after you entered the forbidden part of the cave. I can go back there and make a screenshot or a video if helpful.

Added to the bug tracker.

Daedros wrote:
Xfing wrote:Adding artifact wands would necessitate generating lore for them, which is too much work. We had better stick to the wands that we know, which there is plenty of as it is, and just stratify them like we have all the remaining pieces of equipment! There is no need to change cost or item tiers, but since there are now 15 wands, with 3 of each type doing exactly the same thing as the other 2, maybe it would be a nice idea to spread their spells around, so there is less redundancy?


Yeah, i was thinking Artifact Wands, due to the fact that since Artifacts will now respawn 1 year after you no longer have them, you can expend all the Charges on an Artifact wand, and acquire it again the next year with full charges. You need at least 20+ Alchemy/Water Magic skill to recharge a Wand to 100%. Plus, whenever i decide to "save scum" loot, whenever i see "Wand", i always just reload without even checking it, because very few wands (except the Paralyze Wand) are very useful. Plus, there are currently no "beneficial/buff" wands, they're all offensive. Which is why i thought a T6/Artifact Wand with Power Cure charges would be great.

Added as an addendum to the Suggestion Tracker.

I should get payed for maintaining the tracker! So many posts! :D :D :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Phobos » Feb 12 2019, 17:27

I love XFing's new wands! Renaming them would further deepen the experience. One suggestion though: Paralyze is such a good spell, debilitating a whole monster with just one cast, that I think it would be better moved to tier 5. The original games placed it kind of low - it should be in there with Shrinking Ray, which is arguably somewhat less effective than Paralyze.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Xfing » Feb 12 2019, 18:48

Phobos wrote:I love XFing's new wands! Renaming them would further deepen the experience. One suggestion though: Paralyze is such a good spell, debilitating a whole monster with just one cast, that I think it would be better moved to tier 5. The original games placed it kind of low - it should be in there with Shrinking Ray, which is arguably somewhat less effective than Paralyze.


The thing about Paralyze is that it's rather unreliable, likely based on the target's Light resistance. You might need 2-3 charges to debilitate a single target, which would be close to unwieldy with a wand with a maximum of 15 charges (though you can get a slight surplus at a store, no idea if that counts over the maximum or sets the wand's actual new maximum). That's why paralyze is on tier 4 - so that you can actually get your value out of the wand ;p

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby NotABroom » Feb 12 2019, 21:44

The Artemis bow, which has the electricity effect, which is the most awesome thing ever, is quite overpowered I would say. Apart from the chain lightning damage effect it also pushes enemies back, if you hit them twice with it, they will eventually take off. I just had an awful lot of fun sending gorgons on a space mission. Works especially good in combination with the Perfect Bow.
Last edited by NotABroom on Feb 12 2019, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Echo » Feb 13 2019, 5:05

I don't recall Artemis bow, but it sounds way too fun to nerf! :D

I would also like to give my support for this idea:

"1A.) Now instead of having a bolster where low level enemies are raised to your level, could monster level be adjusted at a steeper slope, so that high level monsters become very tough, and low level monsters stay low level. Essentially, as a function of the monster level. Perhaps as an option besides bolstering and level matching?

Pro's:
- Levelling is rewarding
- Increases challenge for high level parties
- Forces cross-continent questing and levelling
Cons:
- Forces cross-continent questing and levelling
- Perhaps not that straight forward for the storyline, as this could block certain areas.
- Not very well suited for playing per continent."

Sounds like what I've always wanted, it'd be a great option :)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Xfing » Feb 13 2019, 9:30

I think that's been the intention all along, only the implementation is not quite there. Goblins scale to over 1k hp for example, while initially stronger monsters than them scale to lower HP amounts. Bottom tier monsters should generally stay bottom tier, but I don't think anyone disagrees - just the formulas need to be tweaked a bit.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby MagicIsMight » Feb 13 2019, 12:53

Templayer wrote:I should get payed for maintaining the tracker! So many posts! :D :D :D


You should be! ^^

I have another minor one for you:
When you rescue Melody Silver, it gets triggered every time you walk over the threshold, instead of just once.
Not that her room is particularly interesting, but it's a bug nonetheless.

Also thanks for putting some thought to the Linux issue, both of you!

Though I got stuck with the Linux script, as Dropbox won't easily reveal file-dates or download links easily. It would have been easy for a FTP server, but then you'd get lower speeds for the free/cheap ones, I would think.
You need dropboxd, which isn't open source, as far as I'm aware. So it's not the simplest to use in a simple script.

I was thinking of an interesting prospect... a childhood wish... Multiplayer!? haha XD

Well, even if possible through Lua, there'd be a lot of stuff to synchronize... so not likely...

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Templayer » Feb 13 2019, 14:27

NotABroom wrote:The Artemis bow, which has the electricity effect, which is the most awesome thing ever, is quite overpowered I would say. Apart from the chain lightning damage effect it also pushes enemies back, if you hit them twice with it, they will eventually take off. I just had an awful lot of fun sending gorgons on a space mission. Works especially good in combination with the Perfect Bow.

Added to the bug tracker. Fix the Artemis bow, but keep the effect and use it as an easter egg for a relic wand. Call it an Ultimate Wand of Astrological Excursion. :D :D :D :D :D
I'm going to add that to the Suggestion tracker. :P

Echo wrote:I don't recall Artemis bow, but it sounds way too fun to nerf! :D

I would also like to give my support for this idea:

"1A.) Now instead of having a bolster where low level enemies are raised to your level, could monster level be adjusted at a steeper slope, so that high level monsters become very tough, and low level monsters stay low level. Essentially, as a function of the monster level. Perhaps as an option besides bolstering and level matching?

Pro's:
- Levelling is rewarding
- Increases challenge for high level parties
- Forces cross-continent questing and levelling
Cons:
- Forces cross-continent questing and levelling
- Perhaps not that straight forward for the storyline, as this could block certain areas.
- Not very well suited for playing per continent."

Sounds like what I've always wanted, it'd be a great option :)

Your opinion has been added to the suggestion tracker to the given topic. Since you made extra story quests, your opinion holds quite the sway.

Xfing wrote:I think that's been the intention all along, only the implementation is not quite there. Goblins scale to over 1k hp for example, while initially stronger monsters than them scale to lower HP amounts. Bottom tier monsters should generally stay bottom tier, but I don't think anyone disagrees - just the formulas need to be tweaked a bit.

I guess I will add that in too. :devious:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Templayer » Feb 13 2019, 14:35

MagicIsMight wrote:
Templayer wrote:I should get payed for maintaining the tracker! So many posts! :D :D :D


You should be! ^^

I have another minor one for you:
When you rescue Melody Silver, it gets triggered every time you walk over the threshold, instead of just once.
Not that her room is particularly interesting, but it's a bug nonetheless.

Also thanks for putting some thought to the Linux issue, both of you!

Though I got stuck with the Linux script, as Dropbox won't easily reveal file-dates or download links easily. It would have been easy for a FTP server, but then you'd get lower speeds for the free/cheap ones, I would think.
You need dropboxd, which isn't open source, as far as I'm aware. So it's not the simplest to use in a simple script.

I was thinking of an interesting prospect... a childhood wish... Multiplayer!? haha XD

Well, even if possible through Lua, there'd be a lot of stuff to synchronize... so not likely...

Added to the bug tracker.
Multiplayer is a no go, I'm pretty sure. Would be nice as a side project though. Back in the day, EverQuest was an first person dungeon MMORPG, and it later switched to third person (becoming just like any other ...). I would love a multiplayer coop dungeon RPG, or an dungeon MMORPG in the vein of Might and Magic. But 99% of MMORPGs are WoW clones, unfortunately. I hate that scheme.
I would throw my money at anyone for a MMMerge-grade MMORPG! A good one! :S
MMMerge Task Tracker (= Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: http://www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Echo
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Echo » Feb 13 2019, 18:42

Xfing wrote:I think that's been the intention all along, only the implementation is not quite there. Goblins scale to over 1k hp for example, while initially stronger monsters than them scale to lower HP amounts. Bottom tier monsters should generally stay bottom tier, but I don't think anyone disagrees - just the formulas need to be tweaked a bit.


I'm not sure it was. I may be wrong - it's been a good while back that I was reading/talking about it here - but I recall the primary intention of the merge is to allow player complete freedom of choice. As in, everything scales in such a way that you can either continent-jump, or go one by one with some challenge always being present.

In the way described by van Schevikhoven above, that wouldn't be the case - it would instead kind of create one M&M game out of three, in that, as in M&M games, there would be early game, mid game, and end game locations that would require the party to get experience/items from early game from all 3 continents to be adequately prepared to move forward to the more difficult content.

With everything scaling - but early and mid-game locations having harder caps - the challenge would be preserved, but it would still end up with the party heavily outleveling the easier locations and being able to come back for the delightful slaughter on later levels :tongue:

I really like that idea, as it would give more drive to find the portal to another continent to access the accessible locations. Or - alternatively - pose a hardass challenge for anyone who wanted to go single-continent for some bragging rights :devious:

Balancing the game this way could be quite tricky for sure, but also pretty fun I'd imagine :tongue: But whether it's possible, I do not know. I do think it would probably have to be an alternative version, as I imagine there are folks out there who prefer the full freedom approach :creative:

Templayer wrote:Your opinion has been added to the suggestion tracker to the given topic. Since you made extra story quests, your opinion holds quite the sway.


Aww :tiger:
Last edited by Echo on Feb 13 2019, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Daedros » Feb 14 2019, 0:12

Templayer wrote:Multiplayer is a no go, I'm pretty sure. Would be nice as a side project though. Back in the day, EverQuest was an first person dungeon MMORPG, and it later switched to third person (becoming just like any other ...). I would love a multiplayer coop dungeon RPG, or an dungeon MMORPG in the vein of Might and Magic. But 99% of MMORPGs are WoW clones, unfortunately. I hate that scheme.
I would throw my money at anyone for a MMMerge-grade MMORPG! A good one! :S

Meridian 59 was a M&M MMO that was released back in 1996. It's technically still around, being the only MMO that can claim to be older than Ultima Online, although Meridian 59 did go down for several years, so UO has technically been running for longer.
Last edited by Daedros on Feb 14 2019, 0:16, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby NotABroom » Feb 14 2019, 14:08

Walking on lava terrain in Kriegspire makes a sound like walking on water.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Templayer » Feb 14 2019, 17:03

Echo wrote:I'm not sure it was. I may be wrong - it's been a good while back that I was reading/talking about it here - but I recall the primary intention of the merge is to allow player complete freedom of choice. As in, everything scales in such a way that you can either continent-jump, or go one by one with some challenge always being present.

In the way described by van Schevikhoven above, that wouldn't be the case - it would instead kind of create one M&M game out of three, in that, as in M&M games, there would be early game, mid game, and end game locations that would require the party to get experience/items from early game from all 3 continents to be adequately prepared to move forward to the more difficult content.

With everything scaling - but early and mid-game locations having harder caps - the challenge would be preserved, but it would still end up with the party heavily outleveling the easier locations and being able to come back for the delightful slaughter on later levels :tongue:

I really like that idea, as it would give more drive to find the portal to another continent to access the accessible locations. Or - alternatively - pose a hardass challenge for anyone who wanted to go single-continent for some bragging rights :devious:

Balancing the game this way could be quite tricky for sure, but also pretty fun I'd imagine :tongue: But whether it's possible, I do not know. I do think it would probably have to be an alternative version, as I imagine there are folks out there who prefer the full freedom approach :creative:


Added to the topic on the suggestion tracker.
I'm all for it, as a CHOICE / OPTION. I prefer jumping across the continents instead of playing one first and then going to another - so I would do the Dagger Isle first, then jump into the water-filled vulcano,...

Daedros wrote:
Templayer wrote:Multiplayer is a no go, I'm pretty sure. Would be nice as a side project though. Back in the day, EverQuest was an first person dungeon MMORPG, and it later switched to third person (becoming just like any other ...). I would love a multiplayer coop dungeon RPG, or an dungeon MMORPG in the vein of Might and Magic. But 99% of MMORPGs are WoW clones, unfortunately. I hate that scheme.
I would throw my money at anyone for a MMMerge-grade MMORPG! A good one! :S

Meridian 59 was a M&M MMO that was released back in 1996. It's technically still around, being the only MMO that can claim to be older than Ultima Online, although Meridian 59 did go down for several years, so UO has technically been running for longer.

I actually have the source codes for a server for Meridian 59.
It wasn't "Might and Magic enough" for me, though.

NotABroom wrote:Walking on lava terrain in Kriegspire makes a sound like walking on water.

Added to the bug tracker. Probably duplicite from what MagicIsMight reported: "Obsidian ground sounds like wetland". I'm going to add it as a more detailed note.
MMMerge Task Tracker (= Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: http://www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby NotABroom » Feb 14 2019, 20:10

Just some random ideas and observations that crossed my mind:

We've got two kinds of wyrms. The mm8 Great Wyrm and the mm6 Wyrm/Giant Wyrm/Great Wyrm. Maybe rename the mm8 one (ancient dragon for example).
Also, some statistics seem a bit weird, when you compare monsters from the different games that are the same species. For example the mm6 minotaur king and the mm7 minotaur lord have the exact same amount of health, but if you see them next to one another in the arena, the lord is more than twice as large. Same goes for hydras, although the difference in size is even larger. Maybe we would need some name changes and tweaks of statistics. So maybe the mm6 minotaurs stay the way they are, the mm7 ones get renamed to greater minotaur/greater minotaur leader/greater minotaur lord. They would have their stats increased by a certain percentile. Hydras could be river hydras (mm6) and mountain hydras (mm7) with, again, higher stats.

Apart from those minor issues, there are many many new possiblities for enhancing the existing lands and dungeons in different ways. For exampIe I always found it a pity that mm8 had no liches. Now we could have some in the existing dungeons in shadowspire (for example replacing skeletons in the laboratory). I also think the mm6 warlocks would fit into nighon perfectly, as an addition to the existing warlocks. And wouldn't doom knights fit into The Pit?
I will eventually make a small mod like that for myself, but maybe this would be interesting for others as well?

And btw, I made a short demonstration video showcasing the Artemis bow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THVUjYZu4XA
I also have the sword "Hades", which makes an acid burst kind of effect, an axe with explosive impact and the "Perfect Bow" with explosive impact.
Last edited by NotABroom on Feb 14 2019, 20:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 9.02.2019]

Postby Anubis » Feb 14 2019, 22:19

I think Rodril wants to keep the MM6/MM7/MM8 games as close as they are to the originals.


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