Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Templayer
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 1 2019, 13:15

J. M. Sower wrote:As you can see I untroduced silver circles on potraits to make them more compatible with new colour of interface. Coloring of them all will be too much work.

Exactly. It's a visually good solution to the problem.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Jan 1 2019, 15:55

Templayer wrote:
justl wrote:
J. M. Sower wrote:Hmm... I was mainly focused only on MM8 so there would be much smaller number. For Merge... hmm... maybe the idea to hire an artist isn't very bad. ;P We have a big fandom, so maybe we will colect needed funds.

or you put that point on the long bench to do, when you/someone else has time for it ... piece by piece.

we should rodril/anyone who is also able take care of older bugs first, before bringing on new things every week.
remember its a "fun" (sorry for the lack of a better word) project, not some professional payed work from a game studio

Also by putting painting stuff for an Ubisoft owned game on Kickstarter we are risking catching the eye of Ubisoft's lawyers.
I know it sounds like ****. And it is ****. But that is how crappy people make money...


Ubisoft have already driven this franchise into the ground, they could at least have the courtesy to not interfere :D

As for the interface - why not stick to just the inventory for now? We've got 4 colors available between the 3 games, and the inventories are all the same size, so it would be pretty much a matter of copy-pasting. Letting you cycle between all 4 colors and customizing your characters this way would be a cool feature to have. I might have mentioned this idea a few pages back :P
Last edited by Xfing on Jan 1 2019, 16:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 1 2019, 18:01

Xfing wrote:Ubisoft have already driven this franchise into the ground, they could at least have the courtesy to not interfere :D

Those people don't have enough courtesy to betatest their games, or even fix them post release, or to honor their word.
(we were promised source codes for MMX so that modders would be able to fix stuff they left broken)
The only thing they will have the courtesy to do is something that would yield them a lot of money.
On the other hand, this franchise might have ended with EA. I actually cannot think what is worse of the two...

Xfing wrote:As for the interface - why not stick to just the inventory for now? We've got 4 colors available between the 3 games, and the inventories are all the same size, so it would be pretty much a matter of copy-pasting. Letting you cycle between all 4 colors and customizing your characters this way would be a cool feature to have. I might have mentioned this idea a few pages back :P

Because the interface graphics from MM8 aren't bad, but for at least me they are the worst of the three (best layout-wise though, the action is finally in the middle of the screen!).
And this is a merge. Not MM8 only. It would be like replacing enemy sprites of enemies from 6-7 with those of 8 and calling it a day.

I might try make an ornamental circle for MM6 characters, since I have a clear image of what that should look like - Pillars. MM6 is the pillar of the series (in quite a few ways), and its interface features ivory pillars prominently.
Imagine two pillars, touching their middle parts with the left and right of the portrait boundary and being keyed to the interface colour. I.e. in current version, they would be greenish to fit the aestetic.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Milky1988 » Jan 1 2019, 18:36

Templayer, I completely agree with you! ^_^

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Jan 1 2019, 19:01

EA never owned M&M though - they're bigger than Ubisoft so if they ever did, they wouldn't let the franchise slip to their competitor. It's 3DO's poor sales of other, non M&M franchises that led to their bankruptcy and dragging down NWC with them.

But yeah, I'd be happy to at least have the different inventories, that orange one from MM6 for instance makes me happy to look at.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 1 2019, 20:26

Xfing wrote:EA never owned M&M though - they're bigger than Ubisoft so if they ever did, they wouldn't let the franchise slip to their competitor. It's 3DO's poor sales of other, non M&M franchises that led to their bankruptcy and dragging down NWC with them.

But yeah, I'd be happy to at least have the different inventories, that orange one from MM6 for instance makes me happy to look at.

I'm just saying that doing just the inventory is doing like half the job.
I like the MM6 inventory graphic too. :)


Steps needed to import MM6 and MM7 interface graphics (all four of them):
1. Segment them into smaller parts and then reassemble them to fit the new interface layout of MM8.
2. Make a list object in the menu that allows you to choose and make a script for it that switches the interface sprites.
3. Make some (preferably ornamental and paperdoll-origin-based, but silver circles will be enough for now) circles around the portraits so that we don't have to remove the noisy backgrounds from MM8 portraits frame by frame like idiots. :D
4. Make an "Automatic" entry in the interface style selection that would switch the interface sprites based on continent and allignment, and if it is a map created for the mod.
5. Debug the crap out of it.

I.e. it's not "that" hard, but it will take some time to do and it needs a:
a) decent scripter or Rodril himself (he has his hands full of bugs currently I think)
b) decent painter (where's actually GrayFace? He totally has enough skill to do it. Perhaps he doesn't have the time?)

I'm going to try making an ornamental circle around the portrait for characters originating from the continent of Enroth (MM6). Might fail though, I'm not a good artist.
Last edited by Templayer on Jan 1 2019, 20:32, edited 1 time in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Milky1988 » Jan 1 2019, 20:37

I'm following this closely to see if something of it comes about 0.0

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » Jan 2 2019, 12:50

Simple Question.

Is it hard to put in a real game engine like Unity or Unreal ?
Hope I done offend anyone for asking.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 2 2019, 14:55

UnknownHuman wrote:Simple Question.

Is it hard to put in a real game engine like Unity or Unreal ?
Hope I done offend anyone for asking.

That question is too simple. Put a "real" game engine like unity or unreal in "what".

MM6-8 are made out of several "real" (what does a "real" engine mean?) engines.
The Horizon Engine handles the outdoor areas, while the Labyrinth Engine handles indoor areas.
Also I remember that the minimap in dungeons (the vector one) is handled specially (by a third engine maybe? I don't remember. I just remember it was special engine-wise).

But if you mean to reverse engineer the whole games and then translate them and recreate them from nothing in Unity or Unreal, then we are talking about ~20 years. Of pure time. :D
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 2 2019, 15:37

I've ripped the ring around portraits in MM6.

Image

It does have a transparency part, which is shown as black on imgur, and when I downloaded it from imgur and opened in an editor, it still had it.

It has the correct aspect ratio, but it has more pixels because instead of ripping it out of the game files, I've screenshoted the game while scaled and windowed. :D

So it needs to be scaled down (while keeping aspect ratio) and the transparency needs to be modified for the game (where it is keyed to that azure colour or whatever).

EDIT: Here is how it looks on a character in the first slot:
Image

And here is a darker variation:
Image

And I've ripped the pillar graphic from a screenshot:
Image

You can take a guess at where will I put it tommorow. :D

EDIT2: Some more cleaning on the pillar due to rogue pixels, and we are almost ready to make it ornamental!
Image
Last edited by Templayer on Jan 2 2019, 17:42, edited 2 times in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 2 2019, 18:07

And I just found a visual bug. Besides the selected character portrait not being centered, the hand is glitching up.

Image
Last edited by Templayer on Jan 2 2019, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 2 2019, 20:41

I'm finished with the ornamental portrait borders for MM6 characters!

Final versions of pillars. The upper part also needed some cleaning, as it had rogue pixels. It's a rebellion, I tell you! Also my workflow picture as the third one.

Image Image Image

Here's the perspective with base and coloured versions, both before the portrait and behind to see which one looks better. Base pillar in front version is missing the "danger level indicator", but screw that. All subsequent versions have it in the front no matter what.

Image Image Image

For me personally, this is the winner!

Image
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Maslyonok » Jan 3 2019, 9:15

I think the version with pillars "behind" the portraits is the best. Aaand why did you decide to add pillars to the portraits, Templayer? I do not remember that they were in the original M&M6... But this is an interesting idea, that's for sure.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 3 2019, 10:24

Maslyonok wrote:I think the version with pillars "behind" the portraits is the best. Aaand why did you decide to add pillars to the portraits, Templayer? I do not remember that they were in the original M&M6... But this is an interesting idea, that's for sure.

Because if you were to read a few posts back, I told my intention of adding ornamental portrait borders to characters, based on the paperdoll origin.
This was also partly due to the fact that we cannot have different interface styles / colours due to noisy green background of MM8 characters due to there being no borders.

And since I ripped the pillars out of MM6's interface - yes, they were there. Just not as a portrait border.

Please read a bit further (not much, like up to a page back I believe) back before you ask any more questions about this.
It's not that far back and I hate repeating myself.

This will also be turnable on / off.

I will do the ornamental borders for MM7 and MM8 characters (and maybe MMMerge characters if we ever have some originals) later,
after (and if) it is scripted and implemented.

Long story short, (tl;dr) - Rodril said no recolours or new interface styles due to problem with portraits, Sower solved it in his mod by adding silver rings, I've ripped the rings around characters from MM6 in two variations, and had my own idea of adding ornamental parts (that would be turnable off) depending on the character origin.
Since MM6 was the pillar of the series (in all the different ways), and there is QUITE A LOT of pillars in the interface graphic, I decided to try making an ornamental pillar border for MM6 characters in the Merge.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » Jan 3 2019, 10:45

Templayer wrote:
UnknownHuman wrote:Simple Question.

Is it hard to put in a real game engine like Unity or Unreal ?
Hope I done offend anyone for asking.

That question is too simple. Put a "real" game engine like unity or unreal in "what".

MM6-8 are made out of several "real" (what does a "real" engine mean?) engines.
The Horizon Engine handles the outdoor areas, while the Labyrinth Engine handles indoor areas.
Also I remember that the minimap in dungeons (the vector one) is handled specially (by a third engine maybe? I don't remember. I just remember it was special engine-wise).

But if you mean to reverse engineer the whole games and then translate them and recreate them from nothing in Unity or Unreal, then we are talking about ~20 years. Of pure time. :D


I saw a homepage where someone put MM6 in the Unreal Engine, which loaded in the game (New Sorpigal) and the Goblin Watch Tower, I think its called he made it so the Unreal Engine loaded in the maps and played on Unreal.
Both inside and out.

Maybe Ive lost my mind.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unrealengine/c ... n_automap/

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 3 2019, 11:21

UnknownHuman wrote:
Templayer wrote:
UnknownHuman wrote:Simple Question.

Is it hard to put in a real game engine like Unity or Unreal ?
Hope I done offend anyone for asking.

That question is too simple. Put a "real" game engine like unity or unreal in "what".

MM6-8 are made out of several "real" (what does a "real" engine mean?) engines.
The Horizon Engine handles the outdoor areas, while the Labyrinth Engine handles indoor areas.
Also I remember that the minimap in dungeons (the vector one) is handled specially (by a third engine maybe? I don't remember. I just remember it was special engine-wise).

But if you mean to reverse engineer the whole games and then translate them and recreate them from nothing in Unity or Unreal, then we are talking about ~20 years. Of pure time. :D


I saw a homepage where someone put MM6 in the Unreal Engine, which loaded in the game (New Sorpigal) and the Goblin Watch Tower, I think its called he made it so the Unreal Engine loaded in the maps and played on Unreal.
Both inside and out.

Maybe Ive lost my mind.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unrealengine/c ... n_automap/

Well, tell me when it is finished then. Also he seems to be importing just the graphics and then just trying to clone the functionality without having the source code of the original MM6.
Which is kinda bad, because it will never be perfect no matter how hard he will try it to be. The most time consuming thing in putting a game into Unreal would be the reverse engineering of the original game,
but he seems to have skipped that step and just goes "by the eye" so to speak. Also it is taking him years to copy the functionality of MM6, so you might as well multiply that by the amount of the rest of the game (Merge included, since it brings up a LOT of stuff... on the other hand, that stuff is also convertable, as you have the source codes / scripts for the merge).
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 3 2019, 15:02

Here's is the link to the files for the ornamental portrait border for MM6 characters: https://mega.nz/#!0lI2mY4D!BJnuGRzkQVlTvgoIUp1RI2W2L-2NcIzL-PwDIXeYK1Y

Those are just pngs with transparency / alpha channels, so they still need to be scaled down a bit (aspect ratio should sit correctly though), alpha replaced with the azure or whatever that is named that makes the transparency in-game, they need to be positioned and scripts made for them to work / be added in accordance with the paperdoll graphic origin and a on/off button. I do not know how to do all of that, so if someone would be so kind as to implement it, I would be in debt. Not financial one though!
Last edited by Templayer on Jan 3 2019, 15:03, edited 1 time in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby GrayFace » Jan 4 2019, 10:20

Rodril wrote:
GrayFace wrote:The goal is just to show gloves on paper doll, right? I think that would be way too much work for such a small gimmick.

I love the possibility itself to add graphic representation for any item this way. I would modify script to show only items which have special graphics (no "pending" icon for rest), and correctly work, when loupe is on, so gloves wont disappear.

When I think of it, gloves aren't too much work. Could just start with 1 general steel glove, 1 higher-tier glove easily repainted for different variations, then add 1 leather glove and some artifact gloves. And that's pretty much it!
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby GrayFace » Jan 4 2019, 16:59

Templayer wrote:I wonder what is GrayFace's stance on that matter.

I've always wanted a good-looking interface in MM8. If MM7's one is fitted to MM8, I'd always use it in my regular play-throughs. Recoloring MM8 interface wouldn't do it though.
Also, I had plans for wide screen support, which would solve some issues automatically, because the portraits would be floating 'in air'.

Templayer wrote:On the other hand, this franchise might have ended with EA. I actually cannot think what is worse of the two...

One tries to make some good games and fails, the other only wants to turn all its games into casinos and kill every project that is not a casino.

Templayer wrote:But if you mean to reverse engineer the whole games and then translate them and recreate them from nothing in Unity or Unreal, then we are talking about ~20 years. Of pure time. :D

With full dedication and skill it would take 1 man 1-2 years I think. If existing work done on a port can be utilized, that would take even less time.
Last edited by GrayFace on Jan 4 2019, 17:04, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Jan 4 2019, 21:33

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:I wonder what is GrayFace's stance on that matter.

I've always wanted a good-looking interface in MM8. If MM7's one is fitted to MM8, I'd always use it in my regular play-throughs. Recoloring MM8 interface wouldn't do it though.
Also, I had plans for wide screen support, which would solve some issues automatically, because the portraits would be floating 'in air'.

Templayer wrote:On the other hand, this franchise might have ended with EA. I actually cannot think what is worse of the two...

One tries to make some good games and fails, the other only wants to turn all its games into casinos and kill every project that is not a casino.

Templayer wrote:But if you mean to reverse engineer the whole games and then translate them and recreate them from nothing in Unity or Unreal, then we are talking about ~20 years. Of pure time. :D

With full dedication and skill it would take 1 man 1-2 years I think. If existing work done on a port can be utilized, that would take even less time.

1. I want ALL the interfaces from the previous games in the trilogy PLUS repainted variants for them. MM8 interface looks decent in blue. I do not do small scale things it seems! xD
2. My stance stands.
3. One perhaps, but all three? O_o
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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