Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 19 2018, 21:08

Teachers do now say you need to be promoted to learn a skill level, but they don't acknowledge branched Light/Dark promotions. For example, Torrent only tells my sorc that she needs to be promoted to Arch Mage to learn GM water, instead of Arch Mage/ Lich. :D

Other than that yeah, zombies!

One lil' thing I've noticed is that when I make a Zombie using Reanimate, their status bar in the character screen displays their time as a zombie quite inaccurately (instead of the actual time, mine showed 4999 days or something). These are the things I've noticed today. Thanks for today's patch, Rodril :D

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » Nov 20 2018, 1:22

Rodril wrote:@Daedros, chests in Breach should appear without any additional actions even in old savegames. If you don't have them even after last update, try this: open debug console, execute

Code: Select all

evt.MoveToMap{0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,"Breach.odm"}
check if chests are there, tell me.

Edit: Nevermind. I had missed the "after last update" part. Chests are now there after latest update.
Would it be possible to add more chests to the "storerooms" at X: 1608/ Y: -537, 1307/-950, 1593/-535, and 1322/-961? Like line the walls with chests. The Breach base is basically the reward for beating the entire questline, and so you're bound to have collected a lot of stuff completing the entire game. Would it be possible to also improve the base with an Adventurer's Inn, an infinite Training Hall, and a portal to the Plane Between Planes? That'd really make the Breach an awesome base.

Btw, where would i find the map names for using that command? Wouldn't mind being able to go to the Plane Between Planes without having to keep a Lloyd's Beacon of it (stopping long training sessions to keep that refreshed is annoying).
Last edited by Daedros on Nov 20 2018, 2:00, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 20 2018, 16:48

CERBOT wrote:
Templayer wrote:If anybody else is intrigued by the Czech language and want to have a laugh at our expense, check this video on the Czech language. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_VccIbKwFI
Just make sure you don't end up with half of your face paralyzed. :D


I'm trying to teach my gf Czech, she found the video very accurate haha

:D :D

Phobos wrote:I'm impressed at how quickly you fix things! I just noticed another anomaly: Fame is counted wrong. It seems to show the complete amount of EXP earned during the game, so it reaches massive numbers. I guess it should be divided by a certain number or something?

Added to the bug tracker.

Rodril wrote:
Vetrinus wrote:How do I make this work? I downloaded MMArchive and found MapStats.txt, but how do I edit it? Sorry, but I'm inexperienced when it comes to these things.

Forgot to tell about these txt tables, best of all open it with GrayFace's TxtEdit ( https://grayface.github.io/mm/#Txt-Edit ), then it will look like actual table, edit "Refill days" and put edited MapStats.txt either back into EnglishT.lod or in "DataFiles" folder of your game.

I didn't know about that utility, and I have removed the class limitations for races & race limitations for continents using notepad! Goddamnit! It would have been so much easier to do with this! :D :D

Xfing wrote:Teachers do now say you need to be promoted to learn a skill level, but they don't acknowledge branched Light/Dark promotions. For example, Torrent only tells my sorc that she needs to be promoted to Arch Mage to learn GM water, instead of Arch Mage/ Lich. :D

Other than that yeah, zombies!

One lil' thing I've noticed is that when I make a Zombie using Reanimate, their status bar in the character screen displays their time as a zombie quite inaccurately (instead of the actual time, mine showed 4999 days or something). These are the things I've noticed today. Thanks for today's patch, Rodril :D

Added to the bug tracker.

Daedros wrote:
Rodril wrote:@Daedros, chests in Breach should appear without any additional actions even in old savegames. If you don't have them even after last update, try this: open debug console, execute

Code: Select all

evt.MoveToMap{0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,"Breach.odm"}
check if chests are there, tell me.

Edit: Nevermind. I had missed the "after last update" part. Chests are now there after latest update.
Would it be possible to add more chests to the "storerooms" at X: 1608/ Y: -537, 1307/-950, 1593/-535, and 1322/-961? Like line the walls with chests. The Breach base is basically the reward for beating the entire questline, and so you're bound to have collected a lot of stuff completing the entire game. Would it be possible to also improve the base with an Adventurer's Inn, an infinite Training Hall, and a portal to the Plane Between Planes? That'd really make the Breach an awesome base.

Btw, where would i find the map names for using that command? Wouldn't mind being able to go to the Plane Between Planes without having to keep a Lloyd's Beacon of it (stopping long training sessions to keep that refreshed is annoying).

I second this.
Last edited by Templayer on Nov 20 2018, 16:52, edited 1 time in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Pol » Nov 20 2018, 22:28

Templayer wrote:If anybody else is intrigued by the Czech language and want to have a laugh at our expense, check this video on the Czech language. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_VccIbKwFI
Just make sure you don't end up with half of your face paralyzed. :D


Boris is such a sweet liar, he wouldn't have problem with Czech apart from Ř and some declension. Most of people in the Slavic family understand at least the basic. Poměrně bych se vsadil. :leo:
(I would bet on it.)
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 21 2018, 0:55

Pol wrote:
Boris is such a sweet liar, he wouldn't have problem with Czech apart from Ř and some declension. Most of people in the Slavic family understand at least the basic. Poměrně bych se vsadil. :leo:
(I would bet on it.)


Yeah, especially with knowledge of Interslavic. Have you heard of it? It's a Slavic language made to be at least 90% understandable for any Slavic speaker with no prior study..Gotta say, it works just as advertised :D

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Vetrinus » Nov 21 2018, 2:07

Rodril wrote:
Vetrinus wrote:How do I make this work? I downloaded MMArchive and found MapStats.txt, but how do I edit it? Sorry, but I'm inexperienced when it comes to these things.

Forgot to tell about these txt tables, best of all open it with GrayFace's TxtEdit ( https://grayface.github.io/mm/#Txt-Edit ), then it will look like actual table, edit "Refill days" and put edited MapStats.txt either back into EnglishT.lod or in "DataFiles" folder of your game.


Worked! Thank you so much! :applause: :hail: :applause:

I've noticed that, after the latest update, the bolster is not applying to any of the elementals from MM8.
Also, every time Balthazar's Lair refreshes, the tritons come back as well.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 21 2018, 5:20

Vetrinus wrote:Also, every time Balthazar's Lair refreshes, the tritons come back as well.


That's been a thing ever since vanilla mm8. Not sure if it's an oversight or an intended feature, but it's always bothered me too. I think balthazar lair should either be a no-respawn location, or only respawn the peasants and the guards.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » Nov 21 2018, 11:24

Xfing wrote:
Vetrinus wrote:Also, every time Balthazar's Lair refreshes, the tritons come back as well.


That's been a thing ever since vanilla mm8. Not sure if it's an oversight or an intended feature, but it's always bothered me too. I think balthazar lair should either be a no-respawn location, or only respawn the peasants and the guards.

Yeah, it's annoying. Especially when you're fighting the Tritons, and accidentally hit one of the Minotaurs and piss off the whole place. Especially now that Reputation works, and killing any of the Minotaurs would wreck your Reputation there.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Phobos » Nov 21 2018, 14:20

About reputation... is it meant to decline so quickly? This was a feature in mm6, but I liked how it stayed constant in mm7 if you didn't do anything bad. That way you could play for years of in-game time and feel that the quests you'd completed are still remembered by the townspeople.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 21 2018, 15:48

Daedros wrote:
Xfing wrote:
Vetrinus wrote:Also, every time Balthazar's Lair refreshes, the tritons come back as well.


That's been a thing ever since vanilla mm8. Not sure if it's an oversight or an intended feature, but it's always bothered me too. I think balthazar lair should either be a no-respawn location, or only respawn the peasants and the guards.

Yeah, it's annoying. Especially when you're fighting the Tritons, and accidentally hit one of the Minotaurs and piss off the whole place. Especially now that Reputation works, and killing any of the Minotaurs would wreck your Reputation there.


How does rep work now? The MM7 system or the MM6 one?

I think MM7 was overall better. In MM6 you needed to consistently perform quests to stay at Saintly, and eventually you were doomed to fall all the way down to 200 anyway, while in MM7 you retained all you ever received, unless you started murdering peasants or some ****.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 21 2018, 18:16

Vetrinus wrote:I've noticed that, after the latest update, the bolster is not applying to any of the elementals from MM8.
Also, every time Balthazar's Lair refreshes, the tritons come back as well.

Added to the bug tracker.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Vetrinus » Nov 21 2018, 19:40

Xfing wrote:
Vetrinus wrote:Also, every time Balthazar's Lair refreshes, the tritons come back as well.


That's been a thing ever since vanilla mm8. Not sure if it's an oversight or an intended feature, but it's always bothered me too. I think balthazar lair should either be a no-respawn location, or only respawn the peasants and the guards.


That's interesting because I've played tons of vanilla MM8 before and this issue never occurred. Balthazar's Lair would respawn the minotaurs only but not the tritons. This is the first I've heard of this as a long-standing issue. Huh... weird :bug:

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 21 2018, 23:43

I've had tritons upon respawn for as long as I remember.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » Nov 22 2018, 4:20

Vetrinus wrote:
Xfing wrote:
Vetrinus wrote:Also, every time Balthazar's Lair refreshes, the tritons come back as well.


That's been a thing ever since vanilla mm8. Not sure if it's an oversight or an intended feature, but it's always bothered me too. I think balthazar lair should either be a no-respawn location, or only respawn the peasants and the guards.


That's interesting because I've played tons of vanilla MM8 before and this issue never occurred. Balthazar's Lair would respawn the minotaurs only but not the tritons. This is the first I've heard of this as a long-standing issue. Huh... weird :bug:


They've always respawned for me, and i bought M&M8 when it first came out, and have played the living hell out of it. Respawning Tritons was always annoying.
Last edited by Daedros on Nov 22 2018, 4:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby equs » Nov 22 2018, 8:51

Daedros wrote:They've always respawned for me, and i bought M&M8 when it first came out, and have played the living hell out of it. Respawning Tritons was always annoying.


For me too..... And I played many versions, CD versions in english and german, GOG version and a special portable version version I downloaded somewhere... And they all had the respawning tritons.... Hope It will be fixed :tsup:

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Phobos » Nov 22 2018, 13:49

- Explorers, Navigators, and Sailors can't be hired.
- I was able to hire one Bard in Bootleg bay at her home, but her ability does nothing. Maybe it should be 5-10 reputation points? Other bards seem to be unhireable.
- Blackshire potion shop stocks the wrong items if you reload an autosave. It has a bunch of basic Fire Magic books on the shelves with the shopkeeper's description saying n/a.
- The 50 reputation points from Troglodyte Slayer quest seem to go away permanently right after leaving Stone City.
Last edited by Phobos on Nov 22 2018, 15:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 22 2018, 16:36

Phobos wrote:- Explorers, Navigators, and Sailors can't be hired.
- I was able to hire one Bard in Bootleg bay at her home, but her ability does nothing. Maybe it should be 5-10 reputation points? Other bards seem to be unhireable.
- Blackshire potion shop stocks the wrong items if you reload an autosave. It has a bunch of basic Fire Magic books on the shelves with the shopkeeper's description saying n/a.
- The 50 reputation points from Troglodyte Slayer quest seem to go away permanently right after leaving Stone City.

Added to the bug tracker.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby keksua » Nov 23 2018, 11:08

Daedros wrote:
keksua wrote:Can i suggest some simple changes?
The one thing in mm7 were always disappointed me: the fact you can clear half of the locations with lvl1 team with bows..
it can be easily changed by adding some spells effect(so it cannot be dispelled) or just an alternate skill to some monsters e.g.
- Wyverns(Avlee) ancient ones can spit Acid Burst (smt. like Matrons in mm6, they are melee but not free targets)

Early on, you basically have to take Wyverns on at range. The Ancient Wyverns have a Death effect tied to their melee attack, there's a chance that they'll instantly kill any character they hit in melee range, regardless of the char's remaining HP. The only way to protect against it, is the Protection from Magic spell at GM Body Magic skill. Preservation will also prevent the death, but it'll still knock the character out.
Greater Vampires in Shadowspire can do the same once they've drained your SP.

Speaking of draining SP, the Protection from Magic spell doesn't protect against it at all. The Devil Kings (M&M 6), Devil Captains (M&M 7), and Greater Vampires (M&M 8) are capable of performing SP Drain attacks. The SP Drain effect completely drains all of your SP in one hit, regardless how much you have. My Lich has even lost 2,000+ SP to it before.

Basically, my whole point is if we have a beautiful merge, it would be great to merge the strongest parts of all parts:
in mm6 it's balance:
- Monsters are strong, there's very few in whole game you can safely clear very few locations due to monsters magic.
- trading is not op so you always low on money until you buy all the spells you want( and complete light or dark char spellbook cost like a castle)
- magic is balanced: you have to use combat spells through all the game because there's always a ton of strong monsters and you have to use AOE until they come close and then targeting monsters to kill them faster and dark is not so op( it is as strong as in 7-8 but cost twice high for mana, so even in late game in VARN or castles you must think doest it worth 100 mana for dragon breath or use fireballs or inferno, and toxic cloud for 50 is not the best single target option, sometimes it's better to use acie burst ect. ect. in mm7- you use fireball in low lvl and other combat magic just have no usage, cause light party have way more dmg with weapons and dark magic is superior in every way)
also in mm6 you can live without light magic and if you decide so- you need to put skillpoints in ego masteries and you can cast day of gods wow! in mm7-8 i don't know any usage of mind magic.. maybe enslave just for fun.. loosing 55 skill points for gm in ming is less fun though..
- energy damage that kick your ass despite how strong you are(i miss it)


mm7 has way better roleplay, im mm6 creators wanted to make complicated rep system(i guess the plan was not to allow to be master in dark and light) and it wasn't good enough.
- most unused spells from mm6 was changed to good stuff.
- class skills restrictions( we're already have it in merge cause of mm8 engine)
- allies (also have)

mm8 have interesting mercenary system, broken but interesting. and i lowe the way it is made in merge. and races.
and a nice interface and engine that allows this beautiful merge.

so in the end in merge we have all the benefits of 7 and 8 part but no benefits of 6, in fact some of benefits of 6 are gone now..
Last edited by keksua on Nov 23 2018, 11:14, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 23 2018, 18:14

keksua wrote:Basically, my whole point is if we have a beautiful merge, it would be great to merge the strongest parts of all parts:
in mm6 it's balance:
- Monsters are strong, there's very few in whole game you can safely clear very few locations due to monsters magic.
- trading is not op so you always low on money until you buy all the spells you want( and complete light or dark char spellbook cost like a castle)
- magic is balanced: you have to use combat spells through all the game because there's always a ton of strong monsters and you have to use AOE until they come close and then targeting monsters to kill them faster and dark is not so op( it is as strong as in 7-8 but cost twice high for mana, so even in late game in VARN or castles you must think doest it worth 100 mana for dragon breath or use fireballs or inferno, and toxic cloud for 50 is not the best single target option, sometimes it's better to use acie burst ect. ect. in mm7- you use fireball in low lvl and other combat magic just have no usage, cause light party have way more dmg with weapons and dark magic is superior in every way)
also in mm6 you can live without light magic and if you decide so- you need to put skillpoints in ego masteries and you can cast day of gods wow! in mm7-8 i don't know any usage of mind magic.. maybe enslave just for fun.. loosing 55 skill points for gm in ming is less fun though..
- energy damage that kick your ass despite how strong you are(i miss it)


mm7 has way better roleplay, im mm6 creators wanted to make complicated rep system(i guess the plan was not to allow to be master in dark and light) and it wasn't good enough.
- most unused spells from mm6 was changed to good stuff.
- class skills restrictions( we're already have it in merge cause of mm8 engine)
- allies (also have)

mm8 have interesting mercenary system, broken but interesting. and i lowe the way it is made in merge. and races.
and a nice interface and engine that allows this beautiful merge.

so in the end in merge we have all the benefits of 7 and 8 part but no benefits of 6, in fact some of benefits of 6 are gone now..

Seconded. Too many melee mobs in MM7. Giving some of them ranged attack or a magical attack would remedy the situation. Also mixing ranged archers to the mercenary / thief group, as was previously mentioned, would help the situation a bit.
Last edited by Templayer on Nov 23 2018, 19:35, edited 1 time in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 23 2018, 20:17

This could be remedied by:

a) short term: reintroducing monsters cut from the games except for vestigial appearances like the arena, particularly Manticores from MM7 or weak regnan arbalesters from MM8, just to name a few examples. (not really ranged, but I've also mentioned how MM8 is completely devoid of classes 1 and 3 of dark elven warriors and minotaur warriors).
b) long term: supplement areas that could use some distance mobs with mobs fitting the theme from one of the other two games. This could bring the games even closer together and make the merge more total.


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