Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.07.2021]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Xfing
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Xfing » Aug 27 2020, 17:42

The reputation system was overall simplified between MM6 and MM7, while only the barest of basics of the MM7 system remained in MM8 (reputation only for donating to charity).

The basic differences are that in MM6:
- Reputation went from -1000 to +1000
- It decreased over time if you didn't do anything to increase it
- Global

In MM7:
- It went from -50 to +50
- Separate values per location (even dungeons seem to have their own separate tallies)
- Completing quests increased it for the given region only
Last edited by Xfing on Aug 27 2020, 18:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 27 2020, 20:29

Hey, does anybody know if Bolster Monster boost only existing monsters' stats or does it add more numbers and/or types of creatures on the map?
I'd say it's just the stats but I do wish to know it from someone who knows..

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby qtish » Aug 27 2020, 21:46

It gives ability to summon monsters to summon.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 28 2020, 2:22

It gives ability to summon monsters to summon.
So certain creatures can summon others.. must be completely different experience. Have you tried it? I wonder if I should go with that..

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby joanthedark » Aug 28 2020, 7:21

The Reputation.lua file in \Scripts\Global looks promising, but obviously doesn't work in the way it describes.. wanna make a change in that..
I would be so happy if they also brought back the prison sentence from mm6, otherwise to restore negative rep you would be forced to either donate or do quests that increase it. But I don't know how it would work with mm7/mm8 since the kingdom doors are not guarded the way mm6 does it (guard npc door rather than guard npc model).
So certain creatures can summon others.. must be completely different experience. Have you tried it? I wonder if I should go with that..
It also "splits" some enemies, for example killing 1 Corrosive ooze will create 2 Acidic ooze which will themselves create 2 Ooze each upon death. Dungeons like Lair of the Wolf are a sure way to deplete your MP in no time.
Last edited by joanthedark on Aug 28 2020, 7:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 28 2020, 11:09

I would be so happy if they also brought back the prison sentence from mm6, otherwise to restore negative rep you would be forced to either donate or do quests that increase it. But I don't know how it would work with mm7/mm8 since the kingdom doors are not guarded the way mm6 does it (guard npc door rather than guard npc model).
There is a prison sentence (1 year) in MM7 too, like anytime you want to visit places like Dwarven King's, Catherine or Archibald / Magnus etc. and you didn't compensated fines you get arrested for 1 year (regardless how high or low the fines are).
It also "splits" some enemies, for example killing 1 Corrosive ooze will create 2 Acidic ooze which will themselves create 2 Ooze each upon death. Dungeons like Lair of the Wolf are a sure way to deplete your MP in no time.
Man all the things I didn't knew about the Bolstering.. I guess I'll try it out then, though I play a solo character (Human (Original Priestess from MM8) as a Vampire), but only with skill restrictions I choose for the role of character because I got everything unlocked, hoping 100% bolster will not get over the character too much..

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby joanthedark » Aug 28 2020, 20:12

There is a prison sentence (1 year) in MM7 too, like anytime you want to visit places like Dwarven King's, Catherine or Archibald / Magnus etc. and you didn't compensated fines you get arrested for 1 year (regardless how high or low the fines are).
I see, I didn't remember mm7 one so thanks for the explanation! And yeah time advances 1 year but negative reputation gets neutralized as a way of "paying for your crimes", tanks the final score but makes the game more immersive.
Man all the things I didn't knew about the Bolstering.. I guess I'll try it out then, though I play a solo character (Human (Original Priestess from MM8) as a Vampire), but only with skill restrictions I choose for the role of character because I got everything unlocked, hoping 100% bolster will not get over the character too much..
I completed the merge with a party of two, but they were a Paladin and a Druid so I had all the spell repository except for Light and Dark and I was able to heal and buff myself with almost all spells (no Pain Reflection) and used default bolster 100%, there were some very nasty areas from time to time, but if you're going to try it out yourself I won't spoil anything. What I can tell you though is that mm6 Fire Elementals also split, and their spawns upon death can get stuck in the walls of Supreme Temple of Baa, so if you're a completionist and like to clear every dungeon of enemies before moving on this might put you off so be careful killing them near walls. Have fun!

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 28 2020, 21:30

I see, I didn't remember mm7 one so thanks for the explanation! And yeah time advances 1 year but negative reputation gets neutralized as a way of "paying for your crimes", tanks the final score but makes the game more immersive.
There was some grim satisfaction in joining the Dark side in MM7 and killing literally EVERYONE (after how annoying I've found them when I was a teenage), not just using Armageddon spell. With all the reputation in red and saving it because I've meant it, it felt like a part of circle complete. :D
I've finished MM6 and MM8 only once, but kinda spent my time since childhood with MM7, it felt like there was always another way and setting I could be through..
I completed the merge with a party of two, but they were a Paladin and a Druid so I had all the spell repository except for Light and Dark and I was able to heal and buff myself with almost all spells (no Pain Reflection) and used default bolster 100%, there were some very nasty areas from time to time, but if you're going to try it out yourself I won't spoil anything. What I can tell you though is that mm6 Fire Elementals also split, and their spawns upon death can get stuck in the walls of Supreme Temple of Baa, so if you're a completionist and like to clear every dungeon of enemies before moving on this might put you off so be careful killing them near walls. Have fun!
Oh thanks a lot for advice about the Fire elementals, I'll check those for picking. Honetly, I tend to be a completionist, but many areas in MM series made me give that up, like those few I still can't figure out how to (if even possible) get.
I was wondering about 2-3 characters in a party, but I guess I'm kind of too greedy and since I let my innocent Vampiress have whatever she needs..
I might wanna use some other char for that quest line Verdant gives (not a fan of her), maybe that Troll or Priest in MM8 I got to carry anyway.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby justl » Aug 29 2020, 8:19

What I can tell you though is that mm6 Fire Elementals also split, and their spawns upon death can get stuck in the walls of Supreme Temple of Baa, so if you're a completionist and like to clear every dungeon of enemies before moving on this might put you off so be careful killing them near walls. Have fun!
i have never heard or seen that behaviour with those https://mightandmagic.fandom.com/wiki/F ... ntal_(MM6) neither on standalone mm6 installations nor the merge.
maybe you are refering to another game?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby joanthedark » Aug 29 2020, 10:30

i have never heard or seen that behaviour with those https://mightandmagic.fandom.com/wiki/F ... ntal_(MM6) neither on standalone mm6 installations nor the merge.
maybe you are refering to another game?
Made this just for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lCVUorvn1Q

Out of the 4 Fire Beasts that should spawn by defeating the 2 Fire Spirits, 1 Fire Beast gets stuck inside the wall.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 29 2020, 13:24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lCVUorvn1Q

Out of the 4 Fire Beasts that should spawn by defeating the 2 Fire Spirits, 1 Fire Beast gets stuck inside the wall.
That's not even after you kill it, it just spawned in the wall upon creation. If other creatures that duplicate as such doesn't do this, maybe it's because FIre Elementals are flying..

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 29 2020, 15:50

Also noticed merge files Music still contain the wrongly cut music files (13 and 14 got length mixed and thus, overflow).
It's a vanilla mistanke I suppose, not sure if all versions got that..
Link to MP3 correction:
https://downloads.khinsider.com/game-so ... -destroyer
Download 13 and 14 and replace.
Also convert to .wav (like all others) if MP3 is not replaying.
Last edited by Roxterat on Aug 29 2020, 15:53, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby cthscr » Aug 29 2020, 16:11

There seems to be an interesting issue with at least some Enrothian quests now - they grant way too much reputation. I did "Destroy the evil crystal" in Bootleg Bay, and my Reputation immediately rose by 50 points. This plummeted all shop and training prices. "End the Winter" increased Reputation by 200, which is of course insane and made money a non-issue for the rest of the game. Have those numbers accidentally been pulled straight off of MM6 data without converting them to MM7/MM8 reputation?
It always was this way: events weren't changed, I just made them to work. (Actually, I made evt commands argument "ReputationIs" to work like negative "Reputation")
Since reputation is counted differently in MM6, I would estimate that 50 points of Enroth reputation (referred to as "karma" in the link) would roughly equal 5 points of MM7/MM8 reputation. Another difference is that in MM6 reputation declines, whereas in MM7-8, it doesn't go down over time. If it does indeed stay constant in the merge, I would divide the rewards by an additional 2 in order to keep Enroth reputation from sky-rocketing, so 50 points would be 2,5. Since reputation in MM6 is shared through the continent, completing all the quests results in the decline of all the shopping prices everywhere in the land. This is why I think you might want to consider not giving more than 5 for any quest, so that Enroth isn't the only place worth doing shopping in. It will eventually become the cheapest land to shop anyway, but at least now you'd have to work for it.
[Pre: There could be no 2.5 points, only 2 points.] If you want to divide by some number I'd suggest to use power of 2.
Should be something like for 16:

Code: Select all

neg dword ptr [ebp+0xC] sar dword ptr [ebp+0xC], 4
(last line is added) in MiscTweaks.lua for two asmpatches ('evt.Add' and 'evt.Subtract') at the end of file in 'Add ReputationIs support' block.
I would suggest scaling the rewards listed in that link so that that 50 points become 2 and 100/200 become 5 to avoid sky-high reputation.
You'd better have one divisor. You'd better have one divisor.

Aside of this I'd say that current reputation systems (both MM6 and MM7/8) seem to be broken [from design] to me.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby cthscr » Aug 29 2020, 16:50

-1 Reputation for killing a peasant plus a small fine would make sense IMO.
Also, why are there no fines to pay or even reputation penalties when I kill any citizens? I often like to do that. Citizens and guards seem to not even care about each other getting smashed by me..
I think it's because there are no penalties for killing civilians in vanilla mm8, so if we want them back for mm6/mm7 they would have to be implemented into the game.
The Reputation.lua file in \Scripts\Global looks promising, but obviously doesn't work in the way it describes.. wanna make a change in that..
You should have proper settings in 'Data/Tables/Continent settings.txt' for a continent for this to work. By default it works for Enroth only.
Last edited by cthscr on Aug 29 2020, 16:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby cthscr » Aug 29 2020, 16:55

In MM7:
- It went from -50 to +50
I suspect it's -10000..10000 like in MM8 actually.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 29 2020, 19:49

-1 Reputation for killing a peasant plus a small fine would make sense IMO.

I think it's because there are no penalties for killing civilians in vanilla mm8, so if we want them back for mm6/mm7 they would have to be implemented into the game.
The Reputation.lua file in \Scripts\Global looks promising, but obviously doesn't work in the way it describes.. wanna make a change in that..
You should have proper settings in 'Data/Tables/Continent settings.txt' for a continent for this to work. By default it works for Enroth only.
There's Rep affections (guards, shops, NPCs), but does it actually activate reputation counting itself?
If so it doesn't seems to work at all, nothing I do seems to affect my reputation the bad way other than completing quests for Evil side..
I'll take a look at the algorithm in the .lua file..

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Chateman » Aug 29 2020, 21:17

Help sure appreciated - Save game http://www.pcdominion.com/quicksave.lod
Thank you. I could not figure out, what causes that. When i load this savegame, guards are not hostile for me (at least in New Sorpigal).
Try to do following:
1. Put this file into "Data\Tables" folder, replacing existing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg1ynu8r5aaxh ... s.txt?dl=0
2. Launch game and load your savegame.
3. Enter any map with previously hostile guards, if they are hostile, open debug console with ctrl+f1 and execute this code with ctrl+enter:

Code: Select all

for i,v in Map.Monsters do if v.Group == 38 or v.Group == 55 then v.Hostile = false end end
4. Check if they will become hostile again anytime soon, and tell me if they do.
I need more time to understand what could cause it.
Hello everyone !

I had the same issue just after doing "Abandonned Temple". I clear the rooms and pick-up what i could. But when i coming back to City, i have 3 characters in poison statuts and 1 of them is in yellow poison statut. However, guards become hostile when i approach the city.

I tried to open the debug console but the shortkey doesn't work. I delete and reinstall MM8 + Merge MOD, but same thing. I open the "DebugConsoleKey" file to see the shortkey but it seems it's still Ctrl + F1. These opens nothing :/ I can't fixe it by my own. (But when i do CTRL+F2 i got double speed just like it a pushed F2 alone).
How can i open the debug console or how i can change the shortkey ?

Thanks a lot for this huge mod, it's a new game :)
Last edited by Chateman on Aug 29 2020, 21:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby Roxterat » Aug 29 2020, 21:45

I've found a way to summon creatures (thanks to GrayFace I guess) using this code:

local mon = SummonMonster(1, Party.X, Party.Y, Party.Z, true) --(ID, X, Y, Z, Gold)
mon.NPC_ID = 1 --(NPC ID)
mon.Hostile = false --(Hostility)

Now, I've found ID number in \Data\Tables\MonList.txt (+1 to use), but where can find the NPC ID? (to make an NPC out of that creature)
Thanks! ( I'm so filling Harmodale with my own army! :D )

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby ReiVerme » Aug 29 2020, 21:53

This patch is absolutely amazing! I still can't believe I can play these classic RPGs in ultrawide!

But there's a problem. The pixel scaling seems off, especially when you look at the text, unlike when I run the game in software mode. Is there a INI option to improve it? Also, is there an option to completely disable texture filtering on 3D elements?

Image
Image

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

Postby cthscr » Aug 30 2020, 6:40

Now, I've found ID number in \Data\Tables\MonList.txt (+1 to use), but where can find the NPC ID?
NPCData.txt, of course. And ID is in Monsters.txt. (And both of them are inside EnglishT.lod.)


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