Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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candida
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby candida » Sep 15 2019, 14:42

GrayFace wrote:
candida wrote:- Only minotaurs can be selected, no dark elves or trolls (dragons, neither, but it would be too powerful anyway), again their sound are available

Do you mean on MM6/MM7 continents? Or Jedame as well?


In MM6 and MM7. In 8, they can be selected. Is there also a reason why the MM6 faces cannot be selected when you start in MM7?

candida wrote:- When I try to change the interface, game crashes (fine as long as I stay with the MM8 interface), I lost my save because of that.
ErrorLog.txt from your game folder is needed. Maybe a savegame as well if it's save-specific.


Will do next time if the game crashes, I overwrote this corrupt save.

candida wrote:- Druids have GM elemental and clerical spells, making them too powerful
That's a strange decision. I think balance-wise it makes sense to at least give them GM in some schools, because otherwise they're too far behind specialist classes with their GMs and Light/Dark magic. If we do upgrade druids like that, it's the right time to make a race-based upgrade. E.g. human druids could GM self schools, elves could GM elemental schools... Needs thinking through.


Well, I am more on might side in general: I never use Cleric or Sorcerer (I hate them as they keep becoming unconscious or dying constantly, so never light or dark), and just one Druid for all the basic spells (remove+cure spells and fly+water walk, no earth magic) & only body magic (heal) for monk, paladin and ranger. So actually, it really doesn't matter, I even attack Pit with bow and melee weapons :D

As for race-based upgrade, I prefer to keep races and classes separate (IMO, races must only affect stats, not the skills), but of course it's your decision.

Templayer wrote:As the Lord of the Tracker, you're adding most bugs and it would be best if you gathered extra info about them:
Whenever somebody reports a crash, ask them for ErrorLog.txt. If an error could be save-related, ask for a save file. If someone says a Lua error dialog popped up without specifying its contents, ask for contents.


I will do when the game crashes next time.

Templayer wrote:I mean if I remember correctly cra-p gets censored if written properly. What is the target audience of this forum, 6 year olds? Nah, those probably know more swear words than me nowadays. :D

Holy crap!


As I am new to the forum, could you please tell me whether I should post the issues I've found here or in bug tracker directly?

Some other (minor) issues:

- There is no sound while walking on snow in Harmondale hills (on dirt, grass and water there is)
- There was a Regnan Arbelster among Goblins outside of the city, probably a small bug
- Peryn Lightfingers dialogue is wrong (he rejects to join the alliance while he's an expert teacher for stealing)
- Also in the Harmondale temple, donating leads to Hour of Power (exactly the same as in Emerald Island or Dagger Wound Island)
- Arena fights have become very difficult even in the early levels (maybe intentional?)

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SpectralDragon
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Sep 15 2019, 15:44

Templayer wrote:
GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:I mean if I remember correctly cra-p gets censored if written properly. What is the target audience of this forum, 6 year olds? Nah, those probably know more swear words than me nowadays. :D

Holy crap!

Crap, it no longer does! We are saved! xD

:devious: :devious: :D :D :D
Yes?

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GrayFace
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Sep 15 2019, 15:54

candida wrote:As I am new to the forum, could you please tell me whether I should post the issues I've found here or in bug tracker directly?

I think here or to both, because discussing them can be useful. Tag Templayer by making a pseudo-quote to make sure he sees the bug report.
Last edited by GrayFace on Sep 15 2019, 15:54, edited 1 time in total.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

qtish
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby qtish » Sep 15 2019, 17:29

Whats new in 08.09.2019, wasnt following for a while.

candida
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby candida » Sep 15 2019, 18:54

Templayer wrote: pseudo quote


Just finished Erathia map, including sewers and bandit cave.

Found issues (not really severe):

- Pedestal sounds do not work sometimes (both Heroism and Day of the Gods)
- Same temple donation issue (gives ALWAYS hour of power regardless of reputation)
- When entering bandit caves, the screen is wrong (no cave, only black and with the message "do you want to leave Erathia?)
- When NPC pictures are visible, double click on spells in an open spell book does not work, it switches to the NPC dialogue
- Relic found in the chest next to the Obelisk (is it intentional?)

I will try to post as often as possible once I finish a particular map.
Patrick.

Rodril
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Rodril » Sep 15 2019, 20:44

Hello.
Currently i'm trying to fix flickering of monsters inside indoor maps (most noticeable in Tomb of Varn). Solution i've found seems too simple to be true, but i have not got problems so far, if anyone could test it, put this sript into your "Scripts\General" folder, replacing existing, and watch for anything weird in graphics of monsters.
qtish wrote:Whats new in 08.09.2019, wasnt following for a while.

Only bugfixes.
Last edited by Rodril on Sep 15 2019, 20:46, edited 2 times in total.

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GrayFace
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Sep 15 2019, 21:31

Rodril wrote:Solution i've found seems too simple to be true, but i have not got problems so far

Do you see any torches and barrels with it? I haven't tested, but the code just disables drawing of decorations. The flickering could be torch-related. MM6 has this weird setup of light source attached to each torch.
[edit] I've found the issue:
d.ecx = 0 at the end of evt.SetLight correction was causing all lights to be targeted by the standard procedure.
[edit] That was a different issue. It fixed flickering of light, but now I see the problem with monsters.
[edit] Here's current IDB of mine: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gpbfy5yd1c6e ... b.rar?dl=1
Last edited by GrayFace on Sep 15 2019, 22:04, edited 8 times in total.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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GrayFace
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Sep 15 2019, 22:25

I'm sure the problem is that almost all rooms contain all sprites. That's a trick I used in edit mode to see all sprites and it seemed to work fine, but during compilation the Editor should assign entities to rooms (almost) properly. It's strange that it happened like this.
Last edited by GrayFace on Sep 15 2019, 22:43, edited 1 time in total.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

Rodril
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Rodril » Sep 15 2019, 23:47

GrayFace wrote:I'm sure the problem is that almost all rooms contain all sprites. That's a trick I used in edit mode to see all sprites and it seemed to work fine, but during compilation the Editor should assign entities to rooms (almost) properly. It's strange that it happened like this.

I've added simple exclusion of sprites from Map.Rooms[x].Sprites, based on fitting into Room's bounding box, upon LoadMap, it seem to fix problem with flickering monsters. Though probably maps should be recompiled to fix it completely and remove necesserity of crutch. Thank you.

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Xfing
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Sep 16 2019, 5:41

candida wrote:
Templayer wrote: pseudo quote

- Same temple donation issue (gives ALWAYS hour of power regardless of reputation)


This is MM8 code. Hour of Power was always given as a blessing in this game, even in the earliest towns.

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equs
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 01.09.2019]

Postby equs » Sep 16 2019, 7:08

SpectralDragon wrote:
equs wrote:Very nice Mate, thank you for that :tsup:

I voted for dendroids, because I loved them in Heroes 3 and they would be awesome as characters in the Merge. Maybe something like Spriggans in Skyrim to make it better fit into the game for Armors. They couldn't wear Gloves, Helmets, or Boots, but everything else. And they could be recrutet like Caury (the dark-elf shooter) from a special tree on any continent. Something like the picture from the following link

https://www.deviantart.com/embbu-chan/art/Spriggan-Matron-356011414

How do you think a Dendroid Zombie + Lich would look like? ^^;


It could looks like a rotten tree, with dark violet shining from between the branches and eyes for the Lich variant and with red glowing and be more rotten for the zombie condition. Just an idea :D

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Xfing
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Sep 16 2019, 8:34

candida wrote:- Druids have GM elemental and clerical spells, making them too powerful
That's a strange decision. I think balance-wise it makes sense to at least give them GM in some schools, because otherwise they're too far behind specialist classes with their GMs and Light/Dark magic. If we do upgrade druids like that, it's the right time to make a race-based upgrade. E.g. human druids could GM self schools, elves could GM elemental schools... Needs thinking through.


That is pretty much what I suggested. Baseline Druid would stick with Master only, but based on race they could get GM in one or two schools. Maybe some other skill penalty in another etc. This would be closer to the Elder Scrolls or Arcanum system for instance, where race actually does matter beyond aesthetics. It didn't seem like the idea was very warmly received, but it still awaits a review from
Rodril wrote:
. I'd appreciate some definite resolution to this idea so I can stop bringing it up again and again :D Here's the table, waiting for suggestions and adjustments:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f7znEE ... sp=sharing
Last edited by Xfing on Sep 16 2019, 8:35, edited 3 times in total.

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equs
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 01.09.2019]

Postby equs » Sep 16 2019, 8:57

Templayer wrote:I am very much against Skyrim, but the picture looks very nice. But I would prefer for the males to look like those in Heroes.

My previous idea was - remove equipment skills, add unarmed and dodge, add racial Earth Magic, Self Magic, Regeneration, Alchemy (who better to know what plants to mix... than actual plants :D ), and have the ability to "overgrow" any armour (can equip any armour, visually different sprite when worn (overgrown), armour breaks when de-equipped). That is something I would like to make myself (the "overgrown" armour sprites).
would automatically have higher defense (barkskin) and attack (tendrils) than base (not completely unlike dragons).


I love the idea of "overgrowing" armory. And the other abilities you mentioned are very authentic for dendroids. It's so sad, that nearly nobody voted for them.... I agree, lizardman should be implemented at first. But nagas...? Six swords for one character...??? what attack value would this character get by equipping 6 swords...??? Dendroids would be way more lore friendly I think, even if they will be absolutely extraordinary.
Last edited by equs on Sep 16 2019, 9:02, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Rodril » Sep 16 2019, 11:09

Xfing wrote:I'd appreciate some definite resolution to this idea so I can stop bringing it up again and again :D Here's the table, waiting for suggestions and adjustments: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f7znEE ... sp=sharing

I like idea of improvement Racial Skills' algorythm, but i am not sure about values in this table. Two points confuses me:
1. GM of Dark Elf and Vampire abilities for any class. I think these skills should be limited to Expert for classes who are not focused on their racial power.
2. -1 values. Currently racial skills are not stated in any descriptions, only way to see their presence is to check highlighted skill steps (by rightclicking skills in character's sheet). Can't these values brake some existing classes-race combos?
Last edited by Rodril on Sep 16 2019, 11:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Sep 16 2019, 14:41

GrayFace wrote:
candida wrote:As I am new to the forum, could you please tell me whether I should post the issues I've found here or in bug tracker directly?

I think here or to both, because discussing them can be useful. Tag Templayer by making a pseudo-quote to make sure he sees the bug report.

I do not need to be tagged, because unlike SOME PEOPLE (AHEM! :D :D ) I've read every single post in this thread (except for people that I have blocked, of course).

equs wrote:
Templayer wrote:I am very much against Skyrim, but the picture looks very nice. But I would prefer for the males to look like those in Heroes.

My previous idea was - remove equipment skills, add unarmed and dodge, add racial Earth Magic, Self Magic, Regeneration, Alchemy (who better to know what plants to mix... than actual plants :D ), and have the ability to "overgrow" any armour (can equip any armour, visually different sprite when worn (overgrown), armour breaks when de-equipped). That is something I would like to make myself (the "overgrown" armour sprites).
would automatically have higher defense (barkskin) and attack (tendrils) than base (not completely unlike dragons).


I love the idea of "overgrowing" armory. And the other abilities you mentioned are very authentic for dendroids. It's so sad, that nearly nobody voted for them.... I agree, lizardman should be implemented at first. But nagas...? Six swords for one character...??? what attack value would this character get by equipping 6 swords...??? Dendroids would be way more lore friendly I think, even if they will be absolutely extraordinary.

Nobody said anything about 6 swords. You could have a spear, axes,.... xD

Rodril wrote:
Xfing wrote:I'd appreciate some definite resolution to this idea so I can stop bringing it up again and again :D Here's the table, waiting for suggestions and adjustments: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f7znEE ... sp=sharing

I like idea of improvement Racial Skills' algorythm, but i am not sure about values in this table. Two points confuses me:
1. GM of Dark Elf and Vampire abilities for any class. I think these skills should be limited to Expert for classes who are not focused on their racial power.
2. -1 values. Currently racial skills are not stated in any descriptions, only way to see their presence is to check highlighted skill steps (by rightclicking skills in character's sheet). Can't these values brake some existing classes-race combos?

I hate that table. :)
The lack of common sense on it is astounding. But I have shared my opinion on it once before, so I won't continue. It mustn't ever be allowed to become the default. Optional? Sure.
Xfing doesn't like some class/race combos and he basically wants to use the table to enforce people not using them. This might actually be why I blocked him in the first place. De Ja Vu.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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GrayFace
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Sep 16 2019, 16:42

Rodril wrote:I like idea of improvement Racial Skills' algorythm, but i am not sure about values in this table.

I think there's no way to make a reasonable table for flat racial boosts/handicaps. The only way to do things properly is by adding skill overrides based on race+class combo. Slowly adding these combos one by one. While combos from vanilla games can't be changed much, race+class combos not seen in original games can be treated as if they were completely new classes skill-wise.
Last edited by GrayFace on Sep 16 2019, 16:43, edited 1 time in total.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

Roor
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Roor » Sep 16 2019, 16:50

Hey, I noticed that the files are now hosted in Mega instead of Dropbox.
My daily quota doesn't allow me to download the file in one day (actually, I think it will take 3 days to download).

Dropbox was great... What happened?

Any chance of locating the files somewhere else?
Last edited by Roor on Sep 16 2019, 16:50, edited 1 time in total.

Rodril
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Rodril » Sep 16 2019, 17:03

Templayer wrote:Xfing doesn't like some class/race combos and he basically wants to use the table to enforce people not using them. This might actually be why I blocked him in the first place. De Ja Vu.

It is very rude. Especially while Xfing invested a lot of efforts into various game aspects, such as item tiering, bug reporting and mechanics investigation...
Speaking about racial skills, I'd like to keep this discussion. I've seen couple of people complaining about lack of new game roster diversity, but still i don't feel good about just unlocking all paperdolls. Adding some racial skills sounds like good idea, but i see some problems in file, provided by Xfing. For example -1 leather for Minotaur: it basicly destroys half of defence for minotaur-monks, also minotaur does not have any bonuses for spellschools, what makes Minotaur-Warlock far behind Elf druids, if we are going make GM skills based on race. On the other hand i like very much bonuses to spellschools for Elfs and Dark Elfs, it highlights difference between two Elfs counterpart...
I'm thinking about changing Racial skills table format a bit.

Currently each cell contains negative or positive number, which value becomes addition to original calss' skill restriction.
I want to make each cell contain three values:
1 - minimum skill level for race (B, E, M, G),
2 - addition to class' max tier (number),
3 - exeption (S - bonus goes only to classes with SP; W - only to warriors - classes w/o SP; Number - exeption for class kind).

Examples:
Minotaur, Axe: E/1/2 - minimum expert; 1 additional tier available, if class have access to Axe skill; no bonuses if class is Cleric of any kind (cleric, priest, priest of light, priest of dark);
Vampire, Vampire abilities: E/0/0 - minimum expert for any class.
Vampire, Meditation: E/0/W - minimum expert, only for classes with no SP provided by class (otherwise no SP points for Vampire abilities).

Rodril
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Rodril » Sep 16 2019, 17:06

Roor wrote:Dropbox was great... What happened?

Dropbox did corrupt files by removing TABs and sometimes lines, what caused random crashes for each installation.
Roor wrote:Any chance of locating the files somewhere else?

Of course, suggest any file server, i'll share copy there.

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Templayer
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 08.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Sep 16 2019, 17:58

Rodril wrote:
Roor wrote:Dropbox was great... What happened?

Dropbox did corrupt files by removing TABs and sometimes lines, what caused random crashes for each installation.
Roor wrote:Any chance of locating the files somewhere else?

Of course, suggest any file server, i'll share copy there.

I'm using Ulož.to - you can upload up to 20 GB there anonymously. The download is capped at 300 kB/s for anonymous people, however. Also they tend to delete stuff for copyright reasons, even if the copyright holder didn't report it. :-S

I could also set up a FTP account for you on www.Templayer.cz - I have like 20 or 50 GB there, so if you would be OK with your space being limited to 5 GB (which should be enough if you are going to constantly reupload the Merge there, as long as you delete / overwrite the previous version)... the main advantage of that is that I put no arbitrary limits on that. No captcha - direct download, etc. Could be decent as a secondary site. The file would be then located in www.Templayer.cz/storage/Rodril/*nameOfYourFile*
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer


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