Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Aug 2 2019, 3:22

qtish wrote:Is it possible to make it on a global scale to affect chests too? I tried to loot artifact chests upon first time visiting the area, everytime was getting different artifact.

They're exactly the same. They're generated upon first entry.

DaveHer wrote:The Chaos Conspiracy Redone is finished and has been upload to the Nexus.

So, it's actually for MM6? We thought you were porting it over to MM8.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby DaveHer » Aug 2 2019, 4:39

GrayFace wrote:
qtish wrote:Is it possible to make it on a global scale to affect chests too? I tried to loot artifact chests upon first time visiting the area, everytime was getting different artifact.

They're exactly the same. They're generated upon first entry.

DaveHer wrote:The Chaos Conspiracy Redone is finished and has been upload to the Nexus.

So, it's actually for MM6? We thought you were porting it over to MM8.

I should have said, "If any body wants to they can have those items and place them in the merge". Thanks again for your help. The Chaos Conspiracy is not compatible with the merge only the items mention above. :) It would take a lot to put it into the merge. :wall: :)
David Hernandez

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby unknownone » Aug 2 2019, 7:28

DaveHer wrote:
unknownone wrote:Great work David! Thank you very much!
To be sure, is this version going to work only with the Merge or is it standalone as the original one?
It is standalone you do not need the merge and thank you the your comment. :)
David Hernandez


You are welcome. Is it based on the MM6 engine or did you switch to the MM8 one?
I've played and enjoyed many RPGs:
MM6,MM7,MM8,MM9, Fallout 1&2, Planescape Torment, Torment: ToN, TES3, TES4


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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby unknownone » Aug 2 2019, 9:06

thanks!
I've played and enjoyed many RPGs:
MM6,MM7,MM8,MM9, Fallout 1&2, Planescape Torment, Torment: ToN, TES3, TES4

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Aug 2 2019, 15:49

raekuul wrote:
qtish wrote:
Templayer wrote:

With how broken bolster monster options right now is - when it gives +200%hp, +200-1200%damage, +200+% armor class, overall monster bolster is like 1000-2000% depending on a monster type. So I see nothing wrong to make bolster monster % related to higher exp gained.

It's something that I'll look at while I play with numbers/review the bolster script.

Speaking of Bolster, I found the following in AdaptiveMonstersStats.lua:

Code: Select all

   if BolsterMul > 1 then
      PartyLevel = PartyLevel * BolsterMul
   end

   Bolster = (PartyLevel/AvgLevel) ^ BolsterMul
   local OffenseBolster = Bolster^0.75

   if Bolster == 1 then
      return
   end

   BolStep = min(floor(PartyLevel/AvgLevel), 4)

BolStep is used for calculating a monster's new armor class as follows:

Code: Select all

mon.ArmorClass = mon.ArmorClass + mon.ArmorClass*BolStep


This would go a long way towards explaining why the Armor Class bolster is so dramatically far out of step with the rest of the bolster system. I'm still combing through the code, though. Of note is that Party Level is Overall Party Level (which is already the party's average level, which means picking up Cauri Blackthorne ASAP is actively detrimental), plus the Overall Item Bonus (the sum of the value of all equipped items, then divided by 30,000 - which conveniently happens to be the value of one Relic), plus MapSettings.LevelShift (which is not defined in AdaptiveMonstersStats.lua).

EDIT: I am currently working with a tweaked AdaptiveMonstersStats.lua script that's showing promising results. Right now I have three locations targeted for adjustment:
  1. lines 409-411 increase the Party Level by the Bolster Amount if the latter is set to more than 100%, as shown above. I intend to keep 200% as a super hard difficulty level so I'll have to keep this line in mind as I hack
  2. lines 450-457 increases the monster's HP relative to its size but appears to have a typo
  3. line 472 increases the monster's Armor Class as shown above

raekuul wrote:heck yeah accidentally quoted myself.

The Bolster Multiplier
The farther along you are in the game, the stronger the bolster effect becomes due to the Bolster Multiplier calculation of:

Code: Select all

((Average Party Level + (Sum of all equipped items' values)/30,000 + Map Adjustment)/Average Party Level) ^ Bolster Setting

Which means that a party of average level 50 wearing 300,000 gold worth of equipment playing at 100% Bolster visiting Ravenshore for the first time would have a base Bolster Multiplier of ((50 + 10 + 0)/50)^1 = 60/50 = 1.2. A Centaur would have 45 * 1.2 = 54 HP

This sounds reasonable, right? If your Bolster Rate is 100% or less, this is reasonably balanced, and - while still overshooting what I'd expect from 100% bolster, is still close enough that it's not unbearably difficult (Armor Classes going insanely high notwithstanding)

But what about Bolster Rates above 100%? Like, for example, 200%? First of all, your Party Level is multiplied by the Bolster Multiplier in that case, so that whole mess above becomes

Code: Select all

(((Average Party Level + (Sum of all equipped items' values)/30,000 + Map Adjustment)*Bolster Setting)/Average Party Level) ^ Bolster Setting

Our party of average level 50 wearing 300,000 gold worth of equipment playing at 200% Bolster visiting Ravenshore for the first time now has a base Bolster Multiplier of (((50 + 10 + 0) * 2) / 50) ^ 2 = (120/50)^2 = (12/5)^2 = 144/25 = 5.76

All of a sudden you're looking at Centaurs with 260 HP. And that's for a level 50 party. If we're level 100 under these conditions, it becomes (((100 + 10 + 0) * 2) / 100) ^ 2 = (22/10)^2 = 484/100 = 4.84, which means our lowly centaur should then have 217 HP. Admittedly there are upper caps on the Bolster Multiplier. For each bolster category.

tl;dr: Rodril's Bolster scales exponentially. Play above 100% at your own risk.

As a side note, There is currently no map with a positive Map Adjustment value, they're all either 0 or negative.

(Yes, I'm aware that my HP calculation is incorrect - I'm just taking the Bolster Multiplier and applying it directly instead of filtering it through the HP Bolster routines, in order to demonstrate the scaling problem)


Added to the Suggestion tracker. I just feel like storing this info somewhere.

ceallachserene wrote:wizard to lich promotion doesnt work i did the quest and gave her all my jars and my wizard is still a wizard...

Added to the Bug Tracker. Can someone else check this? Because this is the first time I heard of something like that in a recent version.

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:I think it is also based on the highest level of your party members, or something like that.
Hmmm. Added to the Bolster Monster Modifications post on the Suggestion Tracker.

What would be great (GrayFace could do this!) would be to make a BolsterMonsterConfig configuration file, where everyone could fine-tune as much as they can.

Yes, and I also think continent-based bolster can be a nice option. That is, making the 2nd continent you visit have monsters bolstered by a fixed amount and the 3rd even further bolstered.
When I initially used the God mode script I had (that increases level too), I got slaughtered by enemies immediately. Had to change it to give no level boost for the Merge.

Templayer wrote:Save Load scumming won't be limited. Rodril has a stance on it that if somebody wants to save and load until they loot what they want, let them do it, it is a player choice, do not force anyone to play a certain way. And it wouldn't help anyway - the players would simply save moments before the creature's death if your suggestion was implemented.

Here's a script I should have shared earlier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y5yt5dxv72524 ... e.lua?dl=1
Put it into Scripts\Global folder. It will make monster treasure randomized on map start rather than each time you pick a corpse. Tell me if it works or not, because I haven't tested it on older MMExt.

"Ah, I'll make myself a god by raising my levels to the skies!"
*Monsters scale accordingly*
"What have I done!" :D :D :D :D

Also I added your anti-save-scum modification to the Optional modifications for the Merge Tracker. Please don't make it default.

DaveHer wrote:
GrayFace wrote:
qtish wrote:Is it possible to make it on a global scale to affect chests too? I tried to loot artifact chests upon first time visiting the area, everytime was getting different artifact.

They're exactly the same. They're generated upon first entry.

DaveHer wrote:The Chaos Conspiracy Redone is finished and has been upload to the Nexus.

So, it's actually for MM6? We thought you were porting it over to MM8.

I should have said, "If any body wants to they can have those items and place them in the merge". Thanks again for your help. The Chaos Conspiracy is not compatible with the merge only the items mention above. :) It would take a lot to put it into the merge. :wall: :)
David Hernandez

Well, the entire time we were thinking you were porting it to the Merge. :S

Actually, this is your original description:
DaveHer wrote:The Chaos Conspiracy ( CC ) redone is almost done and it was made possible by GrayFace’s modding tools and his assistance. Also some help from Rodril (the camera setting for blender) and other info. CC has many changes, stables and boat travels every day of the week. Arena every day of the week. Stores open late hours. Six new quests done with GrayFace example quests. New sprites and models. Click the link to see pics. All of this stuff can be used with the merge.

I wonder where we got that idea that you were porting it to the Merge, ahem!
Also if you didn't port it for the Merge like your original description said you were, what are you doing in this thread then? 8| :|
Last edited by Templayer on Aug 2 2019, 15:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby qtish » Aug 2 2019, 16:12

GrayFace wrote:
qtish wrote:Is it possible to make it on a global scale to affect chests too? I tried to loot artifact chests upon first time visiting the area, everytime was getting different artifact.

They're exactly the same. They're generated upon first entry.

Yeah, what I mean, can they be generated upon creating the character, not the first entry. Cause you can save/scum desired artifact.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Aug 2 2019, 16:46

Templayer wrote:
ceallachserene wrote:wizard to lich promotion doesnt work i did the quest and gave her all my jars and my wizard is still a wizard...

Added to the Bug Tracker. Can someone else check this? Because this is the first time I heard of something like that in a recent version.

ceallachserene wrote:

Please send a savegame where it happens.

Templayer wrote:Also if you didn't port it for the Merge like your original description said you were, what are you doing in this thread then? 8| :|

Rude, but true. Chaos Conspiracy Redone is both offtopic here and deserves its own thread rather than a single post in a crowded thread.

qtish wrote:Yeah, what I mean, can they be generated upon creating the character, not the first entry. Cause you can save/scum desired artifact.

Why is it hard to just refrain from doing it? Surely, there's convenience in keeping the same items in case you need to reload, but that's not very frequent compared to corpses.
Last edited by GrayFace on Aug 2 2019, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Aug 2 2019, 18:20

GrayFace wrote:
qtish wrote:Yeah, what I mean, can they be generated upon creating the character, not the first entry. Cause you can save/scum desired artifact.

Why is it hard to just refrain from doing it? Surely, there's convenience in keeping the same items in case you need to reload, but that's not very frequent compared to corpses.

I would like to know as well. qtish seems rather keen on making sure that no-one could save-scum, from what I have read. If you were to implement something like that, please make sure not to make it default and only as an optional option. Some of us have a really bad luck, you know!
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Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby UnknownHuman » Aug 2 2019, 18:43

When you know all weapons skills and all Magic skills you cannot see Light Magic / Dark Magic in the skill tree.
So you cannot train these 2 skills.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby DaveHer » Aug 2 2019, 19:03

GrayFace Wrote,
Rude, but true. Chaos Conspiracy Redone is both off topic here and deserves its own thread rather than a single post in a crowded thread.

How do I go about creating a thread for the "Chaos Conspiracy Redone"? It is not entirely off topic. All the items I made can also be use in the merge and I thought that people that have downloaded the merge might want to use them to put into there copy of the merge. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
David Hernandez
Last edited by DaveHer on Aug 4 2019, 19:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby qtish » Aug 2 2019, 19:16

Templayer wrote:
GrayFace wrote:
qtish wrote:Yeah, what I mean, can they be generated upon creating the character, not the first entry. Cause you can save/scum desired artifact.

Why is it hard to just refrain from doing it? Surely, there's convenience in keeping the same items in case you need to reload, but that's not very frequent compared to corpses.

I would like to know as well. qtish seems rather keen on making sure that no-one could save-scum, from what I have read. If you were to implement something like that, please make sure not to make it default and only as an optional option. Some of us have a really bad luck, you know!

Its hard to resist. Especially, when I have these builds I plan to make, so save/scumming until I get what I want. I am probably biggest save/scummer, thats why I want it gone. Thats bad for streaming too.
Last edited by qtish on Aug 2 2019, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Aug 2 2019, 19:18

UnknownHuman wrote:When you know all weapons skills and all Magic skills you cannot see Light Magic / Dark Magic in the skill tree.
So you cannot train these 2 skills.

You mean put points in them. This has been reported on the Bug Tracker already, however that was with a custom "cheated" character. Under what circumstances have you managed to do it?

Anyway, a scrollbar was planned to be shown when that occurs, before Rodril left for his hiatus.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Aug 2 2019, 19:23

qtish wrote:
Templayer wrote:
GrayFace wrote:
Why is it hard to just refrain from doing it? Surely, there's convenience in keeping the same items in case you need to reload, but that's not very frequent compared to corpses.

I would like to know as well. qtish seems rather keen on making sure that no-one could save-scum, from what I have read. If you were to implement something like that, please make sure not to make it default and only as an optional option. Some of us have a really bad luck, you know!

Its hard to resist. Especially, when I have these builds I plan to make, so save/scumming until I get what I want. I am probably biggest save/scummer, thats why I want it gone. Thats bad for streaming too.

Look, I have OCD and yet I see no reason to save-scum (much, that is).

Also I have realized that your idea of monster loot being generated upon party creation cannot be done, unless you disable map respawn as well.
Or should the game remember an absurd amount of items for all possible respawns?

As for streaming - you could consider it a "pause" in the stream, i.e. some time to eat, drink, talk with you audience about random crud, and then either edit it out in the youtube video, or fast forward it. I have been doing the fast-forwarding things like grinding for years.
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Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby UnknownHuman » Aug 3 2019, 6:50

Templayer wrote:
UnknownHuman wrote:When you know all weapons skills and all Magic skills you cannot see Light Magic / Dark Magic in the skill tree.
So you cannot train these 2 skills.

You mean put points in them. This has been reported on the Bug Tracker already, however that was with a custom "cheated" character. Under what circumstances have you managed to do it?

Anyway, a scrollbar was planned to be shown when that occurs, before Rodril left for his hiatus.



Well I made a character that can learn everything for fun.
Wanted someone that knew everything. The skills on the Right panel go further down.
Example :
Left goes down 10 skills... Right goes down 14 skills.

Ow ok on the scroll menu, would be great. Guess I will have to wait then.

IS there anyway to remove skills from a character ? Like Axe, Spear or Blast ?
Last edited by UnknownHuman on Aug 3 2019, 6:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby ceallachserene » Aug 3 2019, 7:25

is there some kind of guide or website that talks about everything you've changed? Like corlagon's estate in enroth, all the treasure is replaced by whispy rags with no value. Also the chest outside of the shadow guild hideout surrounded by lizard archers and the chest on the coastline between corlagon's estate and the mire of the damned zoneline is linked... for example if you loot one the other one becomes empty. etc. I noticed a lot of treasure chests are not-the-usual loot like there was a loot nerf? Boxes seem to have a lot less than in the original. Like the box in the dragoons caverns in ironfist castle areas with the flute item on the base non edited game has more than just the flute but in here it only has the flute, etc. Though the chests in the dragoons keep where you get Mordred are all empty in both this and the base un-edited game which i never understood.

Also i noticed a lot of skill changes too, is there somewhere to look those up? Like archers used to be able to master sword/dagger but they cannot in the merge, plus druids have GM which they don't normally have, clerics used to master merchant but now its just dark elves, etc. seems unbalanced since dark elves are merchant + bow + master element spells + disarm trap and so forth, compared to normal archers or clerics

also the DC for the skull piles seems to have changed they used to be clickable with expert perception with 4 points but now they seem to need much higher.
Last edited by ceallachserene on Aug 3 2019, 7:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Aug 3 2019, 9:13

UnknownHuman wrote:
Templayer wrote:
UnknownHuman wrote:When you know all weapons skills and all Magic skills you cannot see Light Magic / Dark Magic in the skill tree.
So you cannot train these 2 skills.

You mean put points in them. This has been reported on the Bug Tracker already, however that was with a custom "cheated" character. Under what circumstances have you managed to do it?

Anyway, a scrollbar was planned to be shown when that occurs, before Rodril left for his hiatus.



Well I made a character that can learn everything for fun.
Wanted someone that knew everything. The skills on the Right panel go further down.
Example :
Left goes down 10 skills... Right goes down 14 skills.

Ow ok on the scroll menu, would be great. Guess I will have to wait then.

IS there anyway to remove skills from a character ? Like Axe, Spear or Blast ?

So you created basically a cheat character that has everything. I am afraid this doesn't have a priority. You can try using the Cheat Engine to remove the skills (I do not know if it has that functionality, it might, check the tracker for it)

ceallachserene wrote:is there some kind of guide or website that talks about everything you've changed? Like corlagon's estate in enroth, all the treasure is replaced by whispy rags with no value. Also the chest outside of the shadow guild hideout surrounded by lizard archers and the chest on the coastline between corlagon's estate and the mire of the damned zoneline is linked... for example if you loot one the other one becomes empty. etc. I noticed a lot of treasure chests are not-the-usual loot like there was a loot nerf? Boxes seem to have a lot less than in the original. Like the box in the dragoons caverns in ironfist castle areas with the flute item on the base non edited game has more than just the flute but in here it only has the flute, etc. Though the chests in the dragoons keep where you get Mordred are all empty in both this and the base un-edited game which i never understood.

Also i noticed a lot of skill changes too, is there somewhere to look those up? Like archers used to be able to master sword/dagger but they cannot in the merge, plus druids have GM which they don't normally have, clerics used to master merchant but now its just dark elves, etc. seems unbalanced since dark elves are merchant + bow + master element spells + disarm trap and so forth, compared to normal archers or clerics

also the DC for the skull piles seems to have changed they used to be clickable with expert perception with 4 points but now they seem to need much higher.

Check the Tracker in my signature, it has base info (about 150 pages worth of stuff). Not detailed info as in for why there are whispy rags in the Corlagon's Estate, they are not useless, but that is a spoiler.

The linked chest is probably a glitch, though. Added to the Bug Tracker.

There is a .txt table in one of the folders that determines which class can have what expertise. Feel free to find it and edit it (ideally using GrayFace's TxtTableEditor). Personally I am going to change the Archer into a Templar class (with High Templar and Arch Templar as promotions), Thief into Pirate (non-Regnan), Druid into Shaman (for my goblin chick), High Priest into Priest of Twilight (for my Vampire chick) and Sorcerer into a Spellsword (for my Troll). Using the Character Creation Unlocker, of course. Radically shuffling skills. You can do the same, it is as simple as editing text files...

Also remember that when Rodril made the mod, he had to combine the classes from the various games.

The DC for skull piles has indeed been raised due to the MM6 not having GM perception, so changes were made to accommodate for that.



@ALL
I have added these people into the Credits section under Bug Catchers: Jezebeth Noir, alekssandros, pheYonyx, raekuul, Andrey, Maslyonok, ceallachserene
Last edited by Templayer on Aug 3 2019, 9:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Aug 3 2019, 9:48

CREDITS Tracker structurally modified.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby LordInsane » Aug 3 2019, 10:04

Templayer wrote:There is a .txt table in one of the folders that determines which class can have what expertise. Feel free to find it and edit it (ideally using GrayFace's TxtTableEditor). Personally I am going to change the Archer into a Templar class (with High Templar and Arch Templar as promotions), Thief into Pirate (non-Regnan), Druid into Shaman (for my goblin chick), High Priest into Priest of Twilight (for my Vampire chick) and Sorcerer into a Spellsword (for my Troll). Using the Character Creation Unlocker, of course. Radically shuffling skills. You can do the same, it is as simple as editing text files...

Also remember that when Rodril made the mod, he had to combine the classes from the various games.

Though given Racial Skills' encouraging of deprecating racial classes, it could be useful to have a table of differences between MM7 and the Merge, since some of the differences in both the Merge and MM8 itself were to accommodate the racial classes (like the Merchant change).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Aug 3 2019, 11:17

LordInsane wrote:
Templayer wrote:There is a .txt table in one of the folders that determines which class can have what expertise. Feel free to find it and edit it (ideally using GrayFace's TxtTableEditor). Personally I am going to change the Archer into a Templar class (with High Templar and Arch Templar as promotions), Thief into Pirate (non-Regnan), Druid into Shaman (for my goblin chick), High Priest into Priest of Twilight (for my Vampire chick) and Sorcerer into a Spellsword (for my Troll). Using the Character Creation Unlocker, of course. Radically shuffling skills. You can do the same, it is as simple as editing text files...

Also remember that when Rodril made the mod, he had to combine the classes from the various games.

Though given Racial Skills' encouraging of deprecating racial classes, it could be useful to have a table of differences between MM7 and the Merge, since some of the differences in both the Merge and MM8 itself were to accommodate the racial classes (like the Merchant change).

True enough. If you make it, I will add it to the Tracker.
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