Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 26 2019, 17:12

Jamesx wrote:Hah, very cute))) But she looks like a horned khajiit from TES :D I thought that female mino is just a cow isn't it? :D

Don't look at me on that, I dunno! :D I definitely know she's a Mino due to her ears and teeth (Khajiit have them cat-like, of course) and well, irl we do have stereotypical black-and-white cows (seen as villagers in this game, Balthazar Lair) as well as brown cows, thus I see where were devs looking when designing she-Minos. And from what I know, Ancients know if they actually had cattle in Jadame, I only know that Enroth and maybe Antagarich had them, as Agar says in his crazed diary excerpt "Never mix a bull with anything!" :D :D :D
Templayer wrote:I retract my vote on the blue one being zombified. Your idea is better.

Thanks and yes, suddenly YOU are a Minotaur rank in this place. :D :D :D Even if I'll do Trolls first.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 26 2019, 17:36

Jamesx wrote:Hah, very cute))) But she looks like a horned khajiit from TES :D I thought that female mino is just a cow isn't it? :D

I have talked with Spectral in private and it looks like he is planning two females to keep with the games' numbering principles.
One of this type and one that is like your cow "classic". There are quite many varieties of cows in real life. Some of them very different visually.
We (humans) have the nasty habit of mono-culturing animals. If if someone says "cow", you will probably imagine the white variety with flecks.

But the idea of there being essentially subspecies in fantasy races the same like there are different human races (Caucasian, Asian, African, Indian, Eskimo, Tibetan)
is quite interesting.

This might actually explain why there are so few green and blue trolls as well.

The same site he got the portraits from shows the two playable Minotaurs like that, and since the game keeps balance in character variety, we can guess that there should've been two males and two females, like the standard, and since the second female is missing everything and the first female had a detailed render, we can presume that it was cut during development. The reason is currently unknown, my wild guess goes to the time running out on them. Like the poor friendly Ogre village in Ravage Roaming. I wonder if you had originally to choose between them and Minotaurs. We shall never know. Someone should contact the original devs, I would literally pay money to find out about these things! :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 26 2019, 17:49

Templayer wrote:I have talked with Spectral in private and it looks like he is planning two females to keep with the games' numbering principles.
One of this type and one that is like your cow "classic". There are quite many varieties of cows in real life. Some of them very different visually.
We (humans) have the nasty habit of mono-culturing animals. If if someone says "cow", you will probably imagine the white variety with flecks.

But the idea of there being essentially subspecies in fantasy races the same like there are different human races (Caucasian, Asian, African, Indian, Eskimo, Tibetan)
is quite interesting.

This might actually explain why there are so few green and blue trolls as well.

The same site he got the portraits from shows the two playable Minotaurs like that, and since the game keeps balance in character variety, we can guess that there should've been two males and two females, like the standard, and since the second female is missing everything and the first female had a detailed render, we can presume that it was cut during development. The reason is currently unknown, my wild guess goes to the time running out on them. Like the poor friendly Ogre village in Ravage Roaming. I wonder if you had originally to choose between them and Minotaurs. We shall never know. Someone should contact the original devs, I would literally pay money to find out about these things! :D
AND FINISH THE GODDAMN JOB.

Not really a plan, actually, just a train on thought on how would things be like, since well, she-Minos being cut completely except that one image poses one problem: how to make their posture look feminine without altering armor and apparel paperdolls (I'm one of these people that hates bikini armor)??? Let me not even tell you on zombifying and Liching them, I have enough work already. 8| They're like a side-option of a side-option for these reasons, not for the Merge, more like a random mod instead, kind of like Vampire varieties. ^^; And just so I don't get chastised for this, yes, not even I see she-Minos as viable PCs for the Merge. I see them as ANOTHER MOD ALTOGETHER.

"white variety with flecks" Well said ... and I LOLed. :D :D :D Here's the said brown cow I was telling you about.
Image
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 26 2019, 19:57

SpectralDragon wrote:Image

Do those do "Boo" or "Moo"? :D :D :D

Just joking on the expense of digressing the thread.

Actually it would be interesting to "friendlify" enemies upon map entry (no matter the way, if by entrance or spell) under certain conditions, so that for example if you have a dragon in your party, some dragons won't attack you and might even have some dialogue. Like in Dragonsand... "We do not see your kind here often" etc.
This would require a table with player races, maps and mobs on said maps (a faction table).
Scripting something like this wouldn't be that hard (almost trivial even!), but the dialogue part in particular would be rather update-fragile.

Some would argue that it would screw the balance. I would argue that you would already be doing that by having a dragon in your team. Go figure. :D

Just a thought. I'm not even going to write it on the Suggestion Tracker since people here seem to think that only my suggestions matter and I am enforcing their implementation, whileas my suggestions are about 1% of implemented suggestions.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 26 2019, 20:09

Also I just thought about my previous idea on the player having to choose between Minotaurs and Ogres (due to the Ogre village being ... well ... there but not there, you know?) and I said to myself "hmm, but there is no sign of conflict between them and Ogres... wait... is there a race they are at war with?" .... THE TRITONS.

How cool would a Triton town be? We shall never know. Sadly MM8 is the most unfinished piece of the trilogy, and especially towards the end.
I'm still willing to pay a dev to tell me what should've been so that we could make a roadmap and work to that goal. Currently, it is mostly speculation.

PS: For those that do not know or have forgotten... there is a small friendly Ogre village in Ravage Roaming. I can't even google its name! It's just... there.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby KankiBoldman » Jun 26 2019, 22:16

Templayer wrote:Also I just thought about my previous idea on the player having to choose between Minotaurs and Ogres (due to the Ogre village being ... well ... there but not there, you know?) and I said to myself "hmm, but there is no sign of conflict between them and Ogres... wait... is there a race they are at war with?" .... THE TRITONS.

How cool would a Triton town be? We shall never know. Sadly MM8 is the most unfinished piece of the trilogy, and especially towards the end.
I'm still willing to pay a dev to tell me what should've been so that we could make a roadmap and work to that goal. Currently, it is mostly speculation.

PS: For those that do not know or have forgotten... there is a small friendly Ogre village in Ravage Roaming. I can't even google its name! It's just... there.


But then again aren't there a Minotaur innkeeper at the Ogre village? ( does it even have a better name? I tried to check too, but every maps just says Ogre village :D ) I agree that the ogre village probably was supposed to be something bigger, but then again I think the Ogre village is just a residence for ogres who doesn't serve under Zogs raiding parties/Mercenary group :tongue:

And I'm willing to put money on that too! When you think about it there are lots of things we would have love to see more or just things we never were able to put our virtual foot on: like Vori which is mentioned in the games like atleast twice and there were like dozen internet rumors about getting there back in the day: All were disappointments. The more I think about this subject the more "depressed" I get. Thinking about... how cool MM9 would have been :tired: with better budget or just without that clown looking 3D graphics or MM8 without all that hurrying and rushing... But oh well! I'm just in time to witness MMMerge and its a bless from the celeste! :devious:

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 27 2019, 0:01

SpectralDragon wrote:
GrayFace wrote:Sometime in the future my patches would probably support sprites with alpha channel. Keep this in mind when making new monsters etc.

Got it (I'll probably still make both the transparent and the blue version just to be sure). :tsup:

Forgot to say it will only be the case in Hardware mode.

SpectralDragon wrote:Speaking of monsters, aside changing color schemes of Crystal enemies to match their name (Sapphire, Ruby), any other monsters you had in mind, even if optional?

Ravens and Rocks look the same. Other rocks too, that is, Baulders.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 27 2019, 0:07

GrayFace wrote:Ravens and Rocks look the same. Other rocks too, that is, Boulders.

Probably meant Rooks there with first Rocks :D . That aside, got it. Of course, question when they'll come with PCs in the lineup and all. I'll try my best either way ... and those Boulders remind me very much of MM7's Trees, where you have weaker and stronger versions of them.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 27 2019, 3:36

SpectralDragon wrote:
GrayFace wrote:Ravens and Rocks look the same. Other rocks too, that is, Boulders.

Probably meant Rooks there with first Rocks :D .

I meant Rocs :D Ravens are actually all different, I misrecalled about them.

SpectralDragon wrote: That aside, got it. Of course, question when they'll come with PCs in the lineup and all. I'll try my best either way ... and those Boulders remind me very much of MM7's Trees, where you have weaker and stronger versions of them.

Yes, they should probably stay looking the same.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 27 2019, 5:34

KankiBoldman wrote:But then again aren't there a Minotaur innkeeper at the Ogre village? ( does it even have a better name? I tried to check too, but every maps just says Ogre village :D ) I agree that the ogre village probably was supposed to be something bigger, but then again I think the Ogre village is just a residence for ogres who doesn't serve under Zogs raiding parties/Mercenary group :tongue:

The reason why there is a minotaur innkeeper at the Ogre village is probably that they had no smacker indoor animation for an Ogre pub (I think).
And yes, that Ogre village is, like I said... "there but not there". No quest or anything. (at least I do not remember any)
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 27 2019, 9:17

GrayFace wrote:I meant Rocs :D Ravens are actually all different, I misrecalled about them.

Oh, these! :D :D Yep, definitely another thing to make more distinct, especially well, kind of thinking that Storm Hawks should look more grayish and Thunderbirds more either yellow-like (Heroes III inspiration again) or white.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 27 2019, 12:45

Templayer wrote:The reason why there is a minotaur innkeeper at the Ogre village is probably that they had no smacker indoor animation for an Ogre pub (I think).
And yes, that Ogre village is, like I said... "there but not there". No quest or anything. (at least I do not remember any)

Speaking of pub animations, why the VOID does the Murmurwoods pub have an animation where you can at least ONE Necromancer in there? Holy War hype much, Temple of the Sun? :D :D :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 27 2019, 16:14

SpectralDragon wrote:
Templayer wrote:The reason why there is a minotaur innkeeper at the Ogre village is probably that they had no smacker indoor animation for an Ogre pub (I think).
And yes, that Ogre village is, like I said... "there but not there". No quest or anything. (at least I do not remember any)

Speaking of pub animations, why the VOID does the Murmurwoods pub have an animation where you can at least ONE Necromancer in there? Holy War hype much, Temple of the Sun? :D :D :D

Maybe he betrayed the necros! xD
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 28 2019, 7:06

Templayer wrote:Maybe he betrayed the necros! xD

That or the innkeeper is actually a pirate disguised as a Murmurwoods priest, kind of like how (from my memory) the Grandmaster Light is a Regnan Mage and the Expert/Master Sword is a pirate living in Garrote Gorge. :D :D :D "JOIN DA PARtey!"

Speaking of the Minotaur pub in the Ogre village, seeing where it stands and WITV (What In The Void) is happening in there (no offense to Minos still, I think that's by far my fav pub image I've seen in MM8 with the one in the middle chugging down a whole Ancients-forsaken barrel in and, from what I can remember, at least one of them being passed out :D :D :D :D :D Only pub image topping that is the one seen in Barrow Downs/Stone City pub/s where you can CLEARLY see a passed-out Dwarf on the left of the screen as well aside more chugging by the innkeeper himself this time (and where I need to admit, the innkeepers of Barrow Downs and Evermorn Islands have balls of titanium for keeping their pubs active still IN THE MIDDLE OF UNDEAD-INFESTED LANDSCAPES 8| and yus, I know there are Gogs and Gargoyles in Barrow Downs as well, but you don't find them beside or even near the pub) ... and yes, any animation that includes either filling up containers (Bracada, Celeste in MM7) or chugging stuff from them makes it look like as if said drink containers are bottomless, which makes me LOL even more. :D) I'm kind of surprised said Ogres hadn't attacked them for peace violation or something (referring to the one that wishes to go on a little "talk" with Chapel (?) of Eep priests with his boys) and yet at the same time I understand why do we have a random retired pirate residing there as well. :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Jamesx » Jun 28 2019, 9:45

SpectralDragon wrote:"white variety with flecks" Well said ... and I LOLed. :D :D :D Here's the said brown cow I was telling you about.
IMG*IMG*IMG

Templayer wrote:

That's it! The most importatnt difference between male and female mino it's their horns! Cow has a much smaller horns, or doesn't have them at all. On previous image the horns are too big, just like those, that males have. So there can be even two version with and without horns. Femininity can be emphasized by making her eyelashes thicker and eyes larger. And there is something should be done with her teeth too :D I understabd that those 3D pic is not a prototype, just a pic from the net, but it's not too bad and can be used as a sample
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Xfing » Jun 28 2019, 10:43

Jamesx wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:"white variety with flecks" Well said ... and I LOLed. :D :D :D Here's the said brown cow I was telling you about.
IMG*IMG*IMG

Templayer wrote:

That's it! The most importatnt difference between male and female mino it's their horns! Cow has a much smaller horns, or doesn't have them at all. On previous image the horns are too big, just like those, that males have. So there can be even two version with and without horns. Femininity can be emphasized by making her eyelashes thicker and eyes larger. And there is something should be done with her teeth too :D I understabd that those 3D pic is not a prototype, just a pic from the net, but it's not too bad and can be used as a sample


Well there are a few female minos as teachers living in Balthazar's Lair and their horns are of comparable size to those of male minos if I recall correctly, so it depends by which aspect of the portrayal you go. Looking at the game it seems plausible that different artists were working on the player characters, the NPC portraits, the indoor animations and the enemies, as there are rather noticeable differences between all three of these. The red-eyed mino monsters look somewhat closer to what they were in MM7, with exaggerated horns also shared by the enemy minos, but not in the player character or housed NPC portrayal.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 28 2019, 11:43

Xfing wrote:Well there are a few female minos as teachers living in Balthazar's Lair and their horns are of comparable size to those of male minos if I recall correctly, so it depends by which aspect of the portrayal you go. Looking at the game it seems plausible that different artists were working on the player characters, the NPC portraits, the indoor animations and the enemies, as there are rather noticeable differences between all three of these. The red-eyed mino monsters look somewhat closer to what they were in MM7, with exaggerated horns also shared by the enemy minos, but not in the player character or housed NPC portrayal.

Which reminds me, Mino Bankers look absolutely BRUTAL, only with blue eyes and huge-ass nose rings, I love them for Ancients know what reason (probably because once you deposit/withdraw stuff, one of them says "Byee!" in such a tone that it always brings a smile to my face) ... and isn't there a NPC Mino that has his/her horns curved forward instead of backwards, making him/her look like almost like a mix of a bull and a ram? :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 28 2019, 16:03

Jamesx wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:"white variety with flecks" Well said ... and I LOLed. :D :D :D Here's the said brown cow I was telling you about.
IMG*IMG*IMG

Templayer wrote:

That's it! The most importatnt difference between male and female mino it's their horns! Cow has a much smaller horns, or doesn't have them at all. On previous image the horns are too big, just like those, that males have. So there can be even two version with and without horns. Femininity can be emphasized by making her eyelashes thicker and eyes larger. And there is something should be done with her teeth too :D I understabd that those 3D pic is not a prototype, just a pic from the net, but it's not too bad and can be used as a sample

I like logic in my videogames. :D

No, I really mean it! :D :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 28 2019, 20:00

Templayer wrote:The reason why there is a minotaur innkeeper at the Ogre village is probably that they had no smacker indoor animation for an Ogre pub (I think).
And yes, that Ogre village is, like I said... "there but not there". No quest or anything. (at least I do not remember any)

Why wouldn't there be a minotaur innkeeper? Especially while their lair was flooded. A peaceful village is a peaceful village. As for quests, there's a potion maker if that counts.

SpectralDragon wrote:and isn't there a NPC Mino that has his/her horns curved forward instead of backwards, making him/her look like almost like a mix of a bull and a ram? :D

I remember a shop animation with a keeper with curved hornes.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 28 2019, 20:52

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:The reason why there is a minotaur innkeeper at the Ogre village is probably that they had no smacker indoor animation for an Ogre pub (I think).
And yes, that Ogre village is, like I said... "there but not there". No quest or anything. (at least I do not remember any)

Why wouldn't there be a minotaur innkeeper? Especially while their lair was flooded. A peaceful village is a peaceful village. As for quests, there's a potion maker if that counts.

True enough.

And the potion making quests are hard to remember, since they are ... rather underwhelming. I just remember the first one given on Dagger Wound and that is about it. :tired:
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