Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 19 2019, 10:29

DaveHer wrote:The The Chaos Conspiracy ( CC ) redone is almost done and it was made possible by GrayFace’s modding tools and his assistance. Also some help from Rodril (the camera setting for blender) and other info. CC has many changes, stables and boat travels every day of the week. Arena every day of the week. Stores open late hours. Six new quests done with GrayFace example quests. New sprites and models. Click the link to see pics. All of this stuff can be used with the merge. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Double click on image to see a larger image. :)

Great news! Additions look interesting.

Crusader_bin wrote:Info on where to find the files that still are needed to be modified would be appreciated too.

Paint Tracker in https://goo.gl/ui24Bz The graphics is item* in items.lod of respective games.

Xfing wrote:As for armors - yeah, many of them could use legging parts, which probably need to be painted from scratch, but with elements of the actual chest armors. Mostly goes for mm7 leathers and such. It's probably going to be quite hard to do :c

Existing armors from MM8 were successfully used as the base for leggings so far with some recoloring. That's easy and effective.

Xfing wrote:The baby dragon in vanilla gave your warlocks +3 to all magic schools and mana regen, and yeah, it cost an extra 1 food. These boosts are negligible, especially in the merge, so the new approach is quite welcome.

Only in the merge. In vanilla that's an awesome bonus.

SpectralDragon wrote:I'd then wish that Megadragon has the same black sprite it's supposed to have, so that lore purists wouldn't be mad at us for suddenly getting a Black Dragon from an egg that was obviously guarded by either Green, Blue or Red Dragons. ^^;

Why not? Megadragon in MM7 is already optionally black and powerful in my patch (credits mostly go to Black Phantom). Noone got mad so far :) The one NWC ended up including was a weakened red dragon, so something definitely wasn't right with it.

Templayer wrote:Oh, I can already hear the lines for the Blood Dragon:
*kills an enemy*
"My mind to your mind... your blood to my bones."

No, it's gotta be something witty, in the spirit of Might&Magic. Or that's a reference I didn't get.

SpectralDragon wrote:Sure, with Units, Devils and Ghosts, I get it, but Bats, Rats, Eyes and OOZE??? :D :D

Why, what's so weird about a dungeon with friendly rats in it and rat guards saying "Don't cause any trouble!" :D :D :D

Templayer wrote:What the hell. Well, maybe it only works after someone generates files by the first-run procedure, and THEN puts the update in.

Shouldn't be the case at all. Especially considering the error you got is unrelated to tables generation. Compatibility mode also shouldn't do anything to that error.

Templayer wrote:Actually the download fails at 100% while decrypting. It looks like you didn't include the whole decryption key in the link?

That's a bug of Mega I've encountered before. It downloads and decrypts the whole file into a temporary folder, then says it failed and deletes the file. When it happens to an important file, it's possible to overcome this by finding the temporary file and blocking its deletion.

Templayer wrote:And here's how my Ghost Dragon Monk's projectile looks like:

Why software rendering?
Last edited by GrayFace on Jun 19 2019, 10:34, edited 3 times in total.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 19 2019, 10:39

GrayFace wrote:Why not? Megadragon in MM7 is already optionally black and powerful in my patch (thanks for the most part to Black Phantom). Noone got mad so far :) The one NWC ended up including was a weakened red dragon, so something definitely wasn't right with it.

Why, what's so weird about a dungeon with friendly rats in it and rat guards saying "Don't cause any trouble!" :D :D :D

Exactly and well, seeing how he's called Megadragon it definitively needs to be one of the strongest ones in Antagarich if not the strongest (as well as probably a nice reference to either Cloudside or Darkside of Xeen where a Megadragon was a TOUGH boss battle). ;) I was talking in regards of "if Jadamean Red Dragon you get as a reward for finishing the Warlock promotion quest gets swapped with the Antagarich Black Dragon" thingy. ^^;

It's not about that, it's about talking rats. Friendly rats and ratmen as well as talking ratmen are ok (dunno about Bestial Wererats), but common rats (and especially MM6 rats where "Wererat" would be just out-of-nowhere arrival)? :P
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby NoPractice » Jun 19 2019, 10:51

alekssandros wrote:hi guys. is there some manual for this merge? Many things i didn't know

How I deactivate mouse view lock?

Just Found this on the INI (capslock)

You can hold rightmouse button or click mousewheel. Btw yesterday i had suddenly all controls except moving disabled (reloading or restarting game doesn't help while actual keys working) and all repaired suddenly too (wtf?)(Anatagarich part with medusas/red midget caves (maybe they paralysed me, lol)
Last edited by NoPractice on Jun 19 2019, 10:55, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 19 2019, 10:53

SpectralDragon wrote:It's not about that, it's about talking rats. Friendly rats and ratmen as well as talking ratmen are ok (dunno about Bestial Wererats), but common rats (and especially MM6 rats where "Wererat" would be just out-of-nowhere arrival)? :P

My joke was about common rats :)
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 19 2019, 10:59

GrayFace wrote:My joke was about common rats :)

Hehe. Would still be odd unless these would be magicians of some sort that would be pretty nutty, like Agar and whatnot ... and now I wonder if those talking rats would actually be magicians in disguise ... hmmmmmm ...
Lich Rats would still be pretty gruesome though. Or not, I dunno. Would make quite an interesting enemy though, since if we have rats that shoot fire in MM7, then why not Lich Rats as well? XD :D
Lich Rats, of course, being just Liches taking a rat form instead of a human form we usually see them be, since they're magical beings and whatnot. Could be used very well for spying.
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Jun 19 2019, 11:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Xfing » Jun 19 2019, 11:57

SpectralDragon wrote: Would make quite an interesting enemy though, since if we have rats that shoot fire in MM7, then why not Lich Rats as well? XD :D


Yeah, this just about sums up where recent efforts have been heading... :D

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 19 2019, 14:23

Xfing wrote:Yeah, this just about sums up where recent efforts have been heading... :D

Have a bunch of Lich fans unite under one website and well, this is what you get, sadly. No worries though, I'll deal with remaining new characters first and hope that by the time I'm done, GrayFace posted a more tutorial-lime video on how to do stuff regarding armors (saw the assets in what Templayer sent me in a .zip, I'm just as confused as other people here. ^^; ).

And to that one dude that suggested a Lizardman as a new race, does he/she even know what that means? A new race means 3-4 new paperdolls, 2 different living ones, a Zombie one and a Lich one in this mod. D:
Only exceptions would be undead themselves, automatons (Golems, Gargoyles, the like), and Elementals.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Crusader_bin » Jun 19 2019, 15:22

SpectralDragon wrote:
Xfing wrote:Yeah, this just about sums up where recent efforts have been heading... :D

Have a bunch of Lich fans unite under one website and well, this is what you get, sadly. No worries though, I'll deal with remaining new characters first and hope that by the time I'm done, GrayFace posted a more tutorial-lime video on how to do stuff regarding armors (saw the assets in what Templayer sent me in a .zip, I'm just as confused as other people here. ^^; ).

And to that one dude that suggested a Lizardman as a new race, does he/she even know what that means? A new race means 3-4 new paperdolls, 2 different living ones, a Zombie one and a Lich one in this mod. D:
Only exceptions would be undead themselves, automatons (Golems, Gargoyles, the like), and Elementals.


I think that from the list only Elementals make sense, but somehow... Somehow I find the idea of a golem hero cool :D
I could play this in the background while playing a solo Iron Golem https://youtu.be/5s7_WbiR79E
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 19 2019, 15:33

Crusader_bin wrote:I think that from the list only Elementals make sense, but somehow... Somehow I find the idea of a golem hero cool :D
I could play this in the background while playing a solo Iron Golem https://youtu.be/5s7_WbiR79E

Templayer suggested the exact same Gold Golem you get as a part of the Wizard promotion quest instead, but it would be kind of amusing to have said Golem as a PC still, Iron or Gold. :D :D Would make the ACME Golem's company even more of a hidden company of awesomeness (and yes, apparently in the German version of vanilla MM7, ACME Golem's is replaced with even more hilariously-named "Golems 'R Us" :D :D :D).

I ain't doing a Golem PC though, so yeah, sorry. ^^;
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Jun 19 2019, 15:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Xfing » Jun 19 2019, 16:06

As alluring as they might seem as player characters, golems are even less sentient than zombies - the epitome of inanimate matter moved by magic. More of a minion than a hero archetype :p

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 19 2019, 16:32

Xfing wrote:As alluring as they might seem as player characters, golems are even less sentient than zombies - the epitome of inanimate matter moved by magic. More of a minion than a hero archetype :p

Thus I said I ain't doing a Golem PC. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: You Golem-rank.
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Jun 19 2019, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Crusader_bin » Jun 19 2019, 16:35

Xfing wrote:As alluring as they might seem as player characters, golems are even less sentient than zombies - the epitome of inanimate matter moved by magic. More of a minion than a hero archetype :p

I agree. Probably they could be considered zombie level, though nothing stops them from beeing more. Probably nothing stops liches from animating that kind of bodies either. I do remember in D&D book I read a lich that was just a metal skull basically, without any other part of the body. I don't remember the book name though, as it was taken ages ago from library.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Jun 19 2019, 18:05

:wave: Ok, hopefully this will be the last update to both Minotaur Liches and Zombies (at least when it comes to small-horned Minotaur Lich. Question about the big-horned one): added the missing "npc" images inside their folders in new .zips. Thanks, Jamesx! :tsup:

:taurus: :taurus:
-> "Complete" game-compatible Minotaur Zombie: https://sta.sh/0npmhi20vaf
-> "Complete" game-compatible small-horned Minotaur Lich: https://sta.sh/0243l88x7m4m
:taurus: :taurus:

Templayer wrote: :gong:

Apologies for messing with your Tracker again, had to add these new links into Implementation Queue and fix some stuff in Paint Tracker. ^^;
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 19 2019, 23:36

When I think of new races, I imagine new race-based classes, that's when races get interesting to me. But, when trying to think in terms of decoupled race and class, I came to an interesting realization:
Make unique race-class combinations! Not blanket racial skills, but also racial handicaps in skills and have the ability to make them class-dependent. Since it's ultimately a 3D grid of race/class/skill, here's how I imagine it being done:
The racial skills table could contain Lua expressions in cells, e.g. min(x, M) for capping a skill at Master, x-1 for decreasing the skill mastery by 1 etc. Also, Class and BaseClass variables for class-specific config.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Xfing » Jun 20 2019, 7:39

GrayFace wrote:
Xfing wrote:As for armors - yeah, many of them could use legging parts, which probably need to be painted from scratch, but with elements of the actual chest armors. Mostly goes for mm7 leathers and such. It's probably going to be quite hard to do :c

Existing armors from MM8 were successfully used as the base for leggings so far with some recoloring. That's easy and effective.


If you think this approach is going to cut it with all the armors then yeah I guess. Anything more than that would probably be a full-on design job that would deserve payment :P

GrayFace wrote:When I think of new races, I imagine new race-based classes, that's when races get interesting to me. But, when trying to think in terms of decoupled race and class, I came to an interesting realization:
Make unique race-class combinations! Not blanket racial skills, but also racial handicaps in skills and have the ability to make them class-dependent. Since it's ultimately a 3D grid of race/class/skill, here's how I imagine it being done:
The racial skills table could contain Lua expressions in cells, e.g. min(x, M) for capping a skill at Master, x-1 for decreasing the skill mastery by 1 etc. Also, Class and BaseClass variables for class-specific config.


Good thinking here! My initial idea was very similar, though perhaps a little simpler - where race and class modifiers would be kept separate, but interact and connect when the character is created. With separated races and classes the majority of the skill cap table would of course be determined by the class, but the race would contribute in two ways:
- flat skill boosts or penalties (like +1 or +2 to mastery level of certain skill, so a class that can only expert can get master or grand, and a class that can't get the skill at all can get basic or expert)
- flat skill boosts if not lower than a minimum skill threshold, otherwise set to threshold (so say, a Mino sorcerer or cleric can get master in axe rather than just basic, but a Mino knight gets grand in axe - the knight's master cap + 1 level from being a Mino)

For example, I'd do something like this:
- A Minotaur gets either Master in Axe or +1 to Axe mastery, whichever ends up being higher. This would make all mino-based classes either Master or GM with Axe. Otherwise, they get 2 level bonus to Perception, due to how big they eyes are (so a class that can normally only get Expert, would get GM).
- Likewise Trolls - they could get +1 to Mace, Leather and Bodybuilding regardless of class and always GM Regeneration, but probably also a penalty to Meditation and Learning due to their naturally low intelligence.
- Elves could get a major boost of +1 to all elemental schools (allowing for Druids with GM in the elemental schools; also maybe learning, meditation or such, but get a penalty to Bodybuilding for example, because of their naturally low endurance. (another class like maybe humans or dwarves could get the analogous bonus to self magic schools, so that you can't get a Druid with GM in everything)
- Races with racial spell abilites such as Dark Elves would of course get natural Dark Elf Ability all the way up to GM, which would make it necessary to also tinker with the class so that for example a knight still has mana so he can use these spells. That would probably be a bit tougher to do than the rest of them, but yeah. Otherwise Dark Elves could get for instance +1 to Bow (but no lower than Expert), +1 to Merchant (no lower than Expert either) and +1 to Disarm Trap

This sort of thing could be considered for each and every race of course, allowing for some pretty interesting gameplay options. The above are just free suggestions, up for discussion. The only question is if there is a way to code and implement something like this.
Last edited by Xfing on Jun 20 2019, 8:11, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby GrayFace » Jun 20 2019, 9:34

Xfing wrote:For example, I'd do something like this:

I'm thinking in more drastic terms like "some class will only be good in Air magic, but retain strong fighting capabilities" etc. Basically, making the new race-class combinations really different from existing ones. Existing combinations from MM7 shouldn't be changed radically like that, of course, only a little.
Some race+class definitely should have no 2nd hand weapon skills and wear a shield, as right now it's very underused (that is, in vanilla, I still haven't played the Merge).
Last edited by GrayFace on Jun 20 2019, 9:44, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Crusader_bin » Jun 20 2019, 9:44

GrayFace wrote:
Xfing wrote:For example, I'd do something like this:

I'm thinking in more drastic terms like "some class will only be good in Air magic, but retain strong fighting capabilities" etc. Basically, making the new race-class combinations really different from existing ones. Existing combinations from MM7 shouldn't be changed radically like that, of course, only a little.


I like this idea, min-maxing at it's best :) Glass cannons and specialists.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 20 2019, 15:35

Crusader_bin wrote:
GrayFace wrote:
Xfing wrote:For example, I'd do something like this:

I'm thinking in more drastic terms like "some class will only be good in Air magic, but retain strong fighting capabilities" etc. Basically, making the new race-class combinations really different from existing ones. Existing combinations from MM7 shouldn't be changed radically like that, of course, only a little.


I like this idea, min-maxing at it's best :) Glass cannons and specialists.

I already did something like that in a vanilla MM6. My Archer had Air and Fire, Paladin had Spirit, Druid had Body, Mind and Earth, and Sorcerer had Water, Light and Dark at first, until there was a time that I had maxed all other available skills, then I started maxing other schools with given characters.

GrayFace wrote:
Templayer wrote:Oh, I can already hear the lines for the Blood Dragon:
*kills an enemy*
"My mind to your mind... your blood to my bones."

No, it's gotta be something witty, in the spirit of Might&Magic. Or that's a reference I didn't get.

Templayer wrote:What the hell. Well, maybe it only works after someone generates files by the first-run procedure, and THEN puts the update in.

Shouldn't be the case at all. Especially considering the error you got is unrelated to tables generation. Compatibility mode also shouldn't do anything to that error.

Templayer wrote:And here's how my Ghost Dragon Monk's projectile looks like:

Why software rendering?


1. It was a Star Trek reference combined with the dragon smearing the blood of his enemies on his bones and also reading the defenseless mind of the victim when he is dying to savor the kill.

2. I didn't say ANYTHING about a compatibility mode. :D

3. I forgot to set it to hardware.

SpectralDragon wrote:Just as long as it˙s not too much. ^^;

Progress, I guess? :D
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Awesome! I'll go check your tracker suggestions now.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 20 2019, 15:45

Also I am not panicking over Rodril not being here for over a week, since that is usual, I am only panicking about the fact that SpectralDragon already mentioned - many people saw this mod in the span of the past week and what they could only get is a broken version. Not good for the reputation for the mod, which is solid with only small bugs remaining.

I just hope it won't be as it was with RoboBob on Gnomoria - he deleted his plans for the mods future, released a 1.0 version (which included a lot of new bugs) and left the project. That was sad, I really loved that game.

IF YOU WANT TO USE THE MOD USE JAMESX'S VERSION NOT FAR BACK IN THE THREAD.
MAIN DOWNLOAD IS BROKEN AS OF YET AND RODRIL IS GONE FOR THE MOMENT (NOT UNUSUAL, AT LEAST I HOPE)

That is the one I tested and it worked fine.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 10.06.2019]

Postby Templayer » Jun 20 2019, 16:17

Oh, I didn't even know that there was a way to change the view distance and UI style from the Video settings menu!

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MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer


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