Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby spawnsen » Nov 2 2018, 13:30

Templayer wrote:
spawnsen wrote:
Templayer wrote:I will keep that in the bug tracker, because if they do not stack for one of you and do for another, there might be a bug somewhere.


I just checked it and you're correct; Hirelingss from the same continent do stack as well. I just assumed otherwise it since Im sure that you you could not stack them in MM7.

I wish I had known earlier that you can have 3 Hirelings now. Im fairly certain the max number in MM7 was 2 but the more the merrier.

Also, we should have a way of seeing the gold stashed in the bank. In MM7 this was done by mousing over the gold iirc.

In both MM6 and MM7 you could have 2 hirelings, but it was possible to hire quest hirelings (like prince Nicalai and the damsel in distress) over the limit of 2.
I will remove it from the bug tracker.


But now you can have 3 Hirelings in addition to quest Hirelings (I have 3 instructors for learning +45 right now). You couldnt do that in MM6/MM7

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Phobos » Nov 2 2018, 14:31

AllVladin wrote:Hi there,

First of all, BIG THANKS Rodril and the rest of you guys for all the hard work. This brought back the memories of my childhood.

I have two questions though:

1) I am a bit confused about the class/skill setup right now. All the characters seems to have "red" GM skill options when created (doesnt matter on which region).

2) Second confusion I have about the Dark/Light magic and the promotion of sorcerers/clerics.
a) If I start sorcerer in Enroth, he should be able to learn both after promotion in Blackshire up to M? Then GM one of them in VII depending on the path? And then if i choose Dark will my cleric GM light magic in VIII? (So both will have M, and each one of them one GM)
b) If I start necro in Jadame he will promote to wizard in VII with M dark magic allready known and then after Light path chosen he will GM Light magic? So he will have both M Dark and GM Light? - sounds like the deadlies combo
c) If I make priest of the dark in VII and GM Dark will he be able to GM Light in Jadame then? Guess no..
d) If I make Altagrich sorcerer, then promote him to wizard in Enroth, then to Necro in jadame, then back to Wizard in Altagrich (should work), and then to Archmage in Enroth will he get 4x stat boost for promotions and ability to M Dark (Necro era) and GM white (ArchM era)?
This stuff is too confusing, i need more data :-D
The question is, what is the most efficient way to promote clerics/sorcerers to get all the skill options awailable ;)

Thank you very much in advance and once more a big thanks!

ALL

1) The game only checks the next promotion stage when assessing available skill levels because it's based on MM8 that only has two class stages. A Sorcerer will be checked for Wizard-stage skills and a Wizard will be checked for Archmage/Lich skill levels in the situations you described. Don't worry, the skills will be displayed correctly upon the next promotion.

2) Only Archmages and Priests of the Light get Light Magic. Only Necromancers, Liches and Priests of the Dark get Dark Magic. Sorcerers, Wizards, Clerics and Priests get neither.

The promotions schemes are 1) Sorcerer-Wizard-Archmage, 2) Sorcerer-Wizard-Lich, and 3) Necromancer-Lich. As an addition specific to this merge, a Sorcerer or a Wizard can be promoted to Necromancer by Lathean in Shadowspire. Sometimes there are multiple promoters available, but they all yield the same results: It doesn't matter whether you are promoted to Wizard or Archmage on Antagarich or Enroth; the resulting middle stage class is the same and it will be able to get promoted anywhere else for the third promotion. Jadame's promotions will skip the second stage. You cannot promote third stages to second stages or do other weird schemes like that to get both light and dark :P If you are a Lich, you can't go back to Wizard or Archmage. Same for other classes.

In summary:
a) No.
b) No.
c) No. A final stage cannot be promoted again.
d) No. Necromancers cannot go back to Wizards. Also, stat points per level depend on the class you are, not on how many times you have been promoted (so a Lich will have 3 HP and 6 SP per level no matter whether he started as a Necromancer or a Sorcerer).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Echo » Nov 2 2018, 15:43

My goodness, you guys. Armor re-fittings, updated trackers, constant patches, detailed bug reports, suggestions with tables, what a bloody amazing community!

I don't have anything useful to say today. I just wanted to let you all know you're an amazing bunch. It makes me smile to see my favorite childhood games still uniting a bunch of us old geezers in fun :D

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 2 2018, 16:42

Thanks for those annotations Templayer, I'll check them out when I get a free moment and suggest some changes to the item names/descriptions.

As for the class promotion skill display colors - I had no idea that it being MM8 means it only ever inherently displays up to one promotion from the current class, not two like MM7 did. I didn't know this was an obstacle impossible to overcome either, because yeah - it might kinda confuse new players who don't have the entire skill tree memorized. I wonder if something can be done about that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 2 2018, 17:54

AllVladin wrote:Hi there,

First of all, BIG THANKS Rodril and the rest of you guys for all the hard work. This brought back the memories of my childhood.

I have two questions though:

1) I am a bit confused about the class/skill setup right now. All the characters seems to have "red" GM skill options when created (doesnt matter on which region). For instance if i create sorcerer in Altagrich, he will have master air magic yellow and GM air magic red (until promoted to lich/archm). Or knight in Enroth will have white sword skill up to master and GM red until promoted (It should be yellow). For instance the GM in body building for knights is a big issue (because in VII it was up to GM when promoted, in VIII up to M nontheless). The same counts for Meditation of Liches (It could go up to M in VII but up to GM in VIII - in both cases shows as "red" in the begining - confusing). It makes hard character planning - even my unpromoted enroth thief has disarm trap GM red (should be yellow). Is there at least some xls class/skill table for current settings? I remember there were for original games..
edit - even the teachers dont show the dialog "/NAME/ has to be promoted to /NAME OF PROMOTED CLASS/ before being able to learn grandmastery in /SKILL/"

2) Second confusion I have about the Dark/Light magic and the promotion of sorcerers/clerics.
a) If I start sorcerer in Enroth, he should be able to learn both after promotion in Blackshire up to M? Then GM one of them in VII depending on the path? And then if i choose Dark will my cleric GM light magic in VIII? (So both will have M, and each one of them one GM)
b) If I start necro in Jadame he will promote to wizard in VII with M dark magic allready known and then after Light path chosen he will GM Light magic? So he will have both M Dark and GM Light? - sounds like the deadlies combo
c) If I make priest of the dark in VII and GM Dark will he be able to GM Light in Jadame then? Guess no..
d) If I make Altagrich sorcerer, then promote him to wizard in Enroth, then to Necro in jadame, then back to Wizard in Altagrich (should work), and then to Archmage in Enroth will he get 4x stat boost for promotions and ability to M Dark (Necro era) and GM white (ArchM era)?
This stuff is too confusing, i need more data :-D
The question is, what is the most efficient way to promote clerics/sorcerers to get all the skill options awailable ;)

Thank you very much in advance and once more a big thanks!

ALL

1) They only show as red, because the double promotion system was removed in MM8 and that is the one MMMerge is based on. I presume Rodril and/or GrayFace are working on it. But just because it doesn't show the availability for the skill level for the second promotion doesn't mean it cannot have it. It's just a graphical hiccup that will hopefully be remedied eventually.
2) I'm pretty sure some of the things mentioned work differently, but I do not know the details.

EDIT: And suddenly I see a lot more replies. The forum is sure active today! :D
Last edited by Templayer on Nov 2 2018, 17:55, edited 1 time in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 2 2018, 18:05

Echo wrote:My goodness, you guys. Armor re-fittings, updated trackers, constant patches, detailed bug reports, suggestions with tables, what a bloody amazing community!

I don't have anything useful to say today. I just wanted to let you all know you're an amazing bunch. It makes me smile to see my favorite childhood games still uniting a bunch of us old geezers in fun :D

I'm just happy to help in any shape or form. :D

Xfing wrote:Thanks for those annotations Templayer, I'll check them out when I get a free moment and suggest some changes to the item names/descriptions.

As for the class promotion skill display colors - I had no idea that it being MM8 means it only ever inherently displays up to one promotion from the current class, not two like MM7 did. I didn't know this was an obstacle impossible to overcome either, because yeah - it might kinda confuse new players who don't have the entire skill tree memorized. I wonder if something can be done about that.

Yeah. After some suggestions I suddenly got the idea of putting sources in, so that you would know WHY the name. Some vanilla names also seem to be wrong (a cutlass can be a broadsword (and probably is, but it depends on the blade sizes), but every broadsword isn't a cutlass, etc.), but I mostly went with the removal of duplicate names. For example - there is only one claymore, and it is a Trollish Claymore (if I remember correctly, it is actually in the screenshot, but I am too lazy to look :D ), but the MM6 base Two-Handed Sword is actually a claymore (as evident by the pair of three leaf clovers at the hilt), and even though claymores are two-handed swords, since we have three items named "Two-Handed Sword", and there is no base claymore, I suggested the name of just Claymore.

For the second thing - yeah, but I personally think that the combo of Rodril and GrayFace will be able to fix that eventually, it is just that due to it being basically just a graphical hiccup, it doesn't have a priority (in comparison to more function-based bugs and glitches).
Last edited by Templayer on Nov 2 2018, 18:25, edited 1 time in total.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 2 2018, 21:41

Templayer wrote:Yeah. After some suggestions I suddenly got the idea of putting sources in, so that you would know WHY the name. Some vanilla names also seem to be wrong (a cutlass can be a broadsword (and probably is, but it depends on the blade sizes), but every broadsword isn't a cutlass, etc.), but I mostly went with the removal of duplicate names. For example - there is only one claymore, and it is a Trollish Claymore (if I remember correctly, it is actually in the screenshot, but I am too lazy to look :D ), but the MM6 base Two-Handed Sword is actually a claymore (as evident by the pair of three leaf clovers at the hilt), and even though claymores are two-handed swords, since we have three items named "Two-Handed Sword", and there is no base claymore, I suggested the name of just Claymore.


Well, I'm for keeping the changes absolutely minimal, so as to stay as close possible to the original game, so I'd suggest changing only one of each pair of duplicated names rather than switching up both to something unrelated, and I'll take that into consideration when reviewing your comments. But I'll get around to it tomorrow, tired today :D
Last edited by Xfing on Nov 2 2018, 21:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Vetrinus » Nov 3 2018, 0:49

I know this request is stupidly trivial and silly but is it possible to bring loading screens from M&M7, or even M&M6 into the Merge? I miss the loading screen artwork of M&M7 :(

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 3 2018, 10:10

Xfing wrote:
Templayer wrote:Yeah. After some suggestions I suddenly got the idea of putting sources in, so that you would know WHY the name. Some vanilla names also seem to be wrong (a cutlass can be a broadsword (and probably is, but it depends on the blade sizes), but every broadsword isn't a cutlass, etc.), but I mostly went with the removal of duplicate names. For example - there is only one claymore, and it is a Trollish Claymore (if I remember correctly, it is actually in the screenshot, but I am too lazy to look :D ), but the MM6 base Two-Handed Sword is actually a claymore (as evident by the pair of three leaf clovers at the hilt), and even though claymores are two-handed swords, since we have three items named "Two-Handed Sword", and there is no base claymore, I suggested the name of just Claymore.


Well, I'm for keeping the changes absolutely minimal, so as to stay as close possible to the original game, so I'd suggest changing only one of each pair of duplicated names rather than switching up both to something unrelated, and I'll take that into consideration when reviewing your comments. But I'll get around to it tomorrow, tired today :D

Sometimes both are changed, but not by "switching up both to something unrelated". Example - We have two Heroic Swords. One has a kriss blade, while the other has an arming blade and hilt. Thus one becomes Heroic Kriss Sword and one becomes Heroic Arming Sword. Even though in this case I would be fine with calling one the Heroic Kriss Sword and the other with just Heroic Sword.
Vetrinus wrote:I know this request is stupidly trivial and silly but is it possible to bring loading screens from M&M7, or even M&M6 into the Merge? I miss the loading screen artwork of M&M7 :(

Added to the suggestions tracker. Why this didn't occur to any of us is a mystery. :D
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 3 2018, 13:56

Since both my files on dropbox are referenced in the original post, and incorporated into your tracker, if I'm to make any changes, I need edit rights. Can't see any comments while opening the tracker in Word Online either.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 3 2018, 14:14

Xfing wrote:Since both my files on dropbox are referenced in the original post, and incorporated into your tracker, if I'm to make any changes, I need edit rights. Can't see any comments while opening the tracker in Word Online either.

Word Online? Just use google docs. Or download it as docx (from Google Docs) and open in MS Office Word, both of those show the annotations.
I am not going to give you editing rights - use the "Suggesting" mode instead - in the upper right corner you can choose editing modes (Editing, Suggesting, Viewing) - if you suggest edits, I will then just have to use an apply button.
Editing rights are reserved for me, GrayFace (who is actually registered as an editor for it) and Rodril (who didn't yet connect). Anybody can suggest edits.

Here are the comments if MS Office Word is used:
Image
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 3 2018, 14:59

And as for those leather armors from MM7 - with all due respect to Kristal's work, but I'd like to reiterate that Rod Letr's are just better. They look pretty much perfect in fact. I tried to contact Rod Letr on Youtube, but he hasn't been responsive - to be frank I'm not even sure if he's the author of these sprites, or are they like "open source" or something. Anyway, here they are:

Image

And here's a direct comparison with Kristal's proposals, currently in-game (ignore the color differences - it's youtube vs my own game)

Image

Note how snugly Rod Letr's repaints fit the paperdolls' bodies, while at the same time not feeling warped or distorted in any way. So yeah, I really think it'd be nice if we could get our hands on that version, since of course using anything without permission would be in poor taste. But it may be so that many high-quality repaints are already out there, just waiting to be integrated to the game.

Here's the youtube link again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lipriut ... e=youtu.be

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 3 2018, 15:11

Templayer wrote:Word Online? Just use google docs. Or download it as docx (from Google Docs) and open in MS Office Word, both of those show the annotations.


Yeah, sorry but I can't see any annotations using just Google Docs, nor do I see any button to turn them on. Downloading the file is no good either, as how would I put it back up after making the changes? The best I can do is just edit my own files which are on Dropbox, linked to in Rodril's OP too. There's not much point in having two copies of this, frankly, but oh well.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 3 2018, 18:15

Xfing wrote:
Templayer wrote:Word Online? Just use google docs. Or download it as docx (from Google Docs) and open in MS Office Word, both of those show the annotations.


Yeah, sorry but I can't see any annotations using just Google Docs, nor do I see any button to turn them on. Downloading the file is no good either, as how would I put it back up after making the changes? The best I can do is just edit my own files which are on Dropbox, linked to in Rodril's OP too. There's not much point in having two copies of this, frankly, but oh well.

Don't just do that - if you do that, then I won't be able to SEE THE CHANGES YOU MADE! I do not have the time to go through tons of pages trying to find text differences!!!!!

I figured out what was wrong - by setting the document to View by anybody comments are invisible. Viewers must be able to comment to see the comments (what a retarded system).
NOW you should be able to see them. If you can delete them, please don't.

Also you can suggest changes, or at least you should be able to.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Nov 3 2018, 22:01

Ok, I made suggestions to the tracker file. Like I said before - I wouldn't change item names just for the sake of it (like "Poleaxe" to "Bardiche") just to make the name more accurate - the only instances where I'd do that if there is a conflict with another weapon name. Most of my suggestions don't match yours but the editors can see the comments anyway, and the final decision is up to Rodril I guess. Anyway, all instances of clashing flavor text should also be resolved after it is replaced with the lines I suggested. I think they're fairly in line with the style of the MM games - though 6, 7 and 8 each had a distinct style of their own (I tried to kind of find a common denominator between them).

Also, Rodril - feel free to unlink my files from the OP, since Templayer has incorporated them into his tracker anyway.
Last edited by Xfing on Nov 3 2018, 22:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby CERBOT » Nov 4 2018, 2:41

Hi, what an amazing project. Haven't played the M&M games in at least 10 years but seeing this made me install them again and it's been it's amazing.

Couple potential bugs that I've noticed -
1) in Blackshire I found only 4 statues in the chest but iirc there are 5 pedestals so I'm a bit stuck on that quest.
2) when I open a door in a dungeon, the creatures behind it will not attack me until I do that first (at least that's the case if I don't enter the room first). And only the ones that I've attacked will come after me.
3) the obelisk chest in dragonsands contained only some spellbooks and scrolls but nothing else (tried reloading multiple times but it never changed).
4) no GM trainers in Enroth (I guess that's on purpose?). Wouldn't mind for most skills but really miss not being able to use Lloyds beacon.
5) when selling bones at free haven, only bones in inventories of first 4 characters are used. If the 5th character has them, then they don't get sold. On the other hand, when I was converting items at the circus main tent, it used the stones/leafs/feathers from all 5 characters.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » Nov 4 2018, 6:54

CERBOT wrote:Hi, what an amazing project. Haven't played the M&M games in at least 10 years but seeing this made me install them again and it's been it's amazing.

Couple potential bugs that I've noticed -
1) in Blackshire I found only 4 statues in the chest but iirc there are 5 pedestals so I'm a bit stuck on that quest.
2) when I open a door in a dungeon, the creatures behind it will not attack me until I do that first (at least that's the case if I don't enter the room first). And only the ones that I've attacked will come after me.
3) the obelisk chest in dragonsands contained only some spellbooks and scrolls but nothing else (tried reloading multiple times but it never changed).
4) no GM trainers in Enroth (I guess that's on purpose?). Wouldn't mind for most skills but really miss not being able to use Lloyds beacon.
5) when selling bones at free haven, only bones in inventories of first 4 characters are used. If the 5th character has them, then they don't get sold. On the other hand, when I was converting items at the circus main tent, it used the stones/leafs/feathers from all 5 characters.


1. sometimes chests cant fit everything inside them, open them a second time to get missing items from first opening
2. no idea
3. it was that way since the first merge version came out, dont know if its already on the suggestion list to "make the items in there great again".
4. yes on purpose, you have to advance to the other continents for gm
5. see 3
Last edited by justl on Nov 4 2018, 6:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Phobos » Nov 4 2018, 9:52

2) That's how the enemies have always acted in MM6. Usually, they only come for you when you enter the room and sometimes sneak in corners to surprise you. Not that many surprise attacks in 7 and 8. I think it's nice that it's kept like that in this version.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Nov 4 2018, 10:13

CERBOT wrote:Hi, what an amazing project. Haven't played the M&M games in at least 10 years but seeing this made me install them again and it's been it's amazing.

Couple potential bugs that I've noticed -
1) in Blackshire I found only 4 statues in the chest but iirc there are 5 pedestals so I'm a bit stuck on that quest.
2) when I open a door in a dungeon, the creatures behind it will not attack me until I do that first (at least that's the case if I don't enter the room first). And only the ones that I've attacked will come after me.
3) the obelisk chest in dragonsands contained only some spellbooks and scrolls but nothing else (tried reloading multiple times but it never changed).
4) no GM trainers in Enroth (I guess that's on purpose?). Wouldn't mind for most skills but really miss not being able to use Lloyds beacon.
5) when selling bones at free haven, only bones in inventories of first 4 characters are used. If the 5th character has them, then they don't get sold. On the other hand, when I was converting items at the circus main tent, it used the stones/leafs/feathers from all 5 characters.

Points 2 and 5 added to the Bug tracker. Points 3 and 4 added to the Suggestions tracker.
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby CERBOT » Nov 4 2018, 16:32

Phobos wrote:2) That's how the enemies have always acted in MM6. Usually, they only come for you when you enter the room and sometimes sneak in corners to surprise you. Not that many surprise attacks in 7 and 8. I think it's nice that it's kept like that in this version.


Thanks. It's been so long that I must have forgotten that bit.

justl wrote:
CERBOT wrote:1) in Blackshire I found only 4 statues in the chest but iirc there are 5 pedestals so I'm a bit stuck on that quest.
2) when I open a door in a dungeon, the creatures behind it will not attack me until I do that first (at least that's the case if I don't enter the room first). And only the ones that I've attacked will come after me.
5) when selling bones at free haven, only bones in inventories of first 4 characters are used. If the 5th character has them, then they don't get sold. On the other hand, when I was converting items at the circus main tent, it used the stones/leafs/feathers from all 5 characters.


1. sometimes chests cant fit everything inside them, open them a second time to get missing items from first opening
5. see 3



Thanks for the responses.

1) I only realized it late but when I returned to Blackshire, the chest was now empty. Not a key quest so can live without it.

5) sorry, do you mean that it's been that way since the first merge? I assumed it was a bug since original mm6 had only 4 characters so the script must be checking only the first four inventories.

One more question - I remember reading about a cap on the number of artifacts /relics that one can find (not sure if it was applied to all or just some of the games). Is that present in the merge or was it removed/not included?


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