Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 12.07.2020]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » May 19 2018, 13:20

@Rodril

Is it possible to change Expert from 4 to 10, Master 7 to 20, GM to 50 ?
And if so where do I change ?

Thank you.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » May 19 2018, 17:10

the beavers1 wrote:First, the guards in the tower (the archers) are attacking me.

talking about the green/red/blue clad archeresseseesessses? they are not guards but hostile npcs

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 19 2018, 17:20

I've noticed that apart from the MM6 skull piles not working anymore (or should I say "yet?"), the Castle Darkmoor auto dispel doesn't work either. Which is a bit of a shame, it really amplified the nightmarish nature of that place. I think it should be added to the long-term change agenda. Also, do the Decks of Fate work identically to MM7's Genie Lamps? Because those have been changed to a random, non-time-dependent effect, is it to avoid redundancy with the cards?

Also, I really think you should have left the recovery rate of blasters capped at 5 rather than 30. At 150% bolster monsters rating and character levels 100+, blasters are not going to be very useful against the super-powerful enemies. Regular weapons are much more powerful at that point, and blasters are meant to be even better than those, considering how you get them only towards the end of the game. Not to mention that it's realistic that a hasted character will be able to squeeze the trigger of a semi-automatic gun at a rate equivalent to a recovery rate of 5.

EDIT: More minor bugs:
- The Sacrifice spellbook still appears in random loot, even though it's impossible to learn or in any other way cast the spell
- When walking on sand in Dragonsands (actually any land with a desert tileset), the water walking sound plays instead of the sound of walking on sand
- Reminding you that it looks like you rolled back the second wave of the item balancing changes in your latest patch (probably inadvertently), affecting bows, some tridents and halberds etc.
Last edited by Xfing on May 20 2018, 9:30, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby the beavers1 » May 19 2018, 21:23

So i got this letter that says for you in a chest, i went to the appointed location of by the pedestal in dragon sand, and well nothing. Am i missing something?
edit: Also, what are whisp wrappings for?
Last edited by the beavers1 on May 19 2018, 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » May 20 2018, 0:21

the beavers1 wrote:So i got this letter that says for you in a chest, i went to the appointed location of by the pedestal in dragon sand, and well nothing. Am i missing something?
edit: Also, what are whisp wrappings for?

Those are part of the new Verdant quest which introduces you to the different continents and the time travel aspect of them.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 20 2018, 9:26

the beavers1 wrote:So i got this letter that says for you in a chest, i went to the appointed location of by the pedestal in dragon sand, and well nothing. Am i missing something?
edit: Also, what are whisp wrappings for?


Click the statuette pedestal in Dragonsands, then when you cast Town Portal you'll be able to change continents.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » May 20 2018, 15:17

in mm7 i found a spiked club in the misc-things (tulearan forest) store - sadly i couldnt take a picture - but im sure, it doesnt belong in that store :)
Last edited by justl on May 20 2018, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 20 2018, 18:27

justl wrote:in mm7 i found a spiked club in the misc-things (tulearan forest) store - sadly i couldnt take a picture - but im sure, it doesnt belong in that store :)


Magic shops do sell clubs and always have :P

BTW noticed another thing - right now the hive reactor is vulnerable to weapons enchanted with magic, such as "of Infernos", Elsenrail, Glomenthal etc. Previously, I found that in the arena, I couldn't damage a reactor using the MM7 blasters. I assumed MM6 blasters would work, but now everything works. I think it would be best if both MM6 and MM7 blasters worked on the reactor, but nothing else.

Also, I've finally completed the "Save the Goobers" quest and obtained the Telelocator. It still probably doesn't work all that well, and has a limit input that prevents you from trying to locate most items, monsters and people. Are there some input rules to be mindful of? What can it find?
Last edited by Xfing on May 20 2018, 19:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby the beavers1 » May 21 2018, 20:33

ok, so here is my next set of issues/questions
1st. Archer can learn master spear (holding it in one hand) but has access to no skills that capitalize on it (dagger, shield, sword)
2nd. Priest of light cannot learn light magic, and sorcerer can only learn light magic not dark.
3rd. Obelisk treasure.... so i understand making the scrolls instead of spellbooks, but why instead of the rings i get 3 basic spellbooks?
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Echo » May 21 2018, 23:46

UnknownHuman wrote:Here is a idea.

Why not make the Inventory like MM9 ?
Image

Its crude but will work. The only papperdoll will be 2 handed weapons. This way we/us can use ALL armor and such without any issues :)
Just a idea.


Nooooo! I absolutely LOVE the paperdoll dress-up from 6-8 :) They tried to change so much about the games we love and they created something that's nowhere near as fun :canthear: That's how it starts! :S

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » May 22 2018, 4:23

Echo wrote:
Nooooo! I absolutely LOVE the paperdoll dress-up from 6-8 :) They tried to change so much about the games we love and they created something that's nowhere near as fun :canthear: That's how it starts! :S


Yes I to love paperdoll dress up. The problem is no one can paint the rest of the armor that is missing.
If Rodril put all armor from MM6 and MM7 in and put them in place, they still will be off.

A arm here and there and feet not matching boots.
I really dont care about the fit, just activate everything and put everything in place.
All Capes, Helmets, Crowns and such should fit already, just put them in place.

Armor and boots will be off, but thats ok until someone fixes the graphics, no big deal I think.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » May 22 2018, 16:03

Xfing wrote:
justl wrote:in mm7 i found a spiked club in the misc-things (tulearan forest) store - sadly i couldnt take a picture - but im sure, it doesnt belong in that store :)


Magic shops do sell clubs and always have :P

i actually never really noticed that

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » May 27 2018, 8:55

hey rodril,

im already right in the middle of the beginning of mm7 - do exploring the whereabouts with my mm6-leveled party.
i found the first genie lamps already and tried to use them (they are not the problem here) - since i had some decks of fate left over from mm6 i also tried to use them.

sadly they dont work anymore once you crossed the continential barrier between mm6 and 7 - meaning no bonus at all - neither in mm6 areas (i had a lloyds beacon still open to castle ironfist) nor in mm7.

best regards,
justl

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Rodril » May 27 2018, 14:58

Hello, sorry for delay. Patch link have been updated. Items should be corrected now, steps in Dragonsand (and other snady mm6 locations) won't sound as water anymore, skull piles will work now. I've added few new maps, which finishes Verdant's story, if you've already finished stories of all three continents, she will catch you within week of game time (maps might have bugs, notice me, if i've missed something).
Note: first launch will take longer than usual, and don't forget to redownload and reapply localization if you use it.
the beavers1 wrote:First, the guards in the tower (the archers) are attacking me.
Secondly, There was one Random cuisinart in new sorpigal over the bridge by the temple with the queen spider.
third, I cant seem to find ID item, i have a paladin, a cleric, and an archer. Can neither of them learn it?
Also, i noticed there is acromage in enroth, is there some kind of reward for beating all taverns like in the other lands?

These archers were hostile in mm6, should not they stay like that?
I'm sure Sorcerer and Druid have ID item, rest mm6 classes - no.
No, Enroth, does not have arcomage championship.
the beavers1 wrote:dit: was the cuinsart i killed possibly part of another towns bounty? how does it work? also any chance the bank can accumulate interest? I know that was something of a mod in the past.

When you take bounty hunt quest in Town Hall of Antagarich or Enroth, named monsters spawns at current map, never at other map, but still you can kill monster of type elsewhere.
UnknownHuman wrote:Is it possible to change Expert from 4 to 10, Master 7 to 20, GM to 50 ?
And if so where do I change ?

Yes, after today's update in "Data\Tables\TeacherTopics.txt", though these numbers seems insane.
Xfing wrote:Castle Darkmoor auto dispel doesn't work either.

What is it? I've never noticed any kind of dispel there. Does it periodically removes partybuffs?
Xfing wrote:Also, do the Decks of Fate work identically to MM7's Genie Lamps? Because those have been changed to a random, non-time-dependent effect, is it to avoid redundancy with the cards?

I'm sure cards effect depends on current month and week, will check it again. Genie's lamp is random now, but depends on character's luck.
I think, i've set blaster's min delay to 5 in last update, try again, please.
justl wrote:in mm7 i found a spiked club in the misc-things (tulearan forest) store - sadly i couldnt take a picture - but im sure, it doesnt belong in that store :)

I've noticed it, it is original bug(?) of mm8, but it is not easy to fix, and i delayed it for now.
Xfing wrote:Also, I've finally completed the "Save the Goobers" quest and obtained the Telelocator. It still probably doesn't work all that well, and has a limit input that prevents you from trying to locate most items, monsters and people. Are there some input rules to be mindful of? What can it find?

It can locate NPC, Items and monsters, but it's capabilities are limited.
It seek through NPC table, and if NPC belongs to any house, telelocator prints it's continent, map and name of the house. You have to type exact name of NPC to find him.
Items works a bit worse: telelocator look through all shop asortments, but if you have not ever visit shop before, it's asortment is not generated and locator have quiet short table to seek in.
Monsters are most simplified: locator seek through monsters assigned to maps in mapstats.txt (file in EnglishT.lod), so it won't ever find Reactor or Demon queen.
the beavers1 wrote:1st. Archer can learn master spear (holding it in one hand) but has access to no skills that capitalize on it (dagger, shield, sword)
2nd. Priest of light cannot learn light magic, and sorcerer can only learn light magic not dark.
3rd. Obelisk treasure.... so i understand making the scrolls instead of spellbooks, but why instead of the rings i get 3 basic spellbooks?

1. Spear have bonus when used by two hands, i think, that's the point why developers did not give other master skill to archer. I am not good in balancing, if you have suggestion, which can solve it, share please. I'm afraid to give archer sword mastery.
2. What do you mean? Priest can learn dark or light magic depending on his third promotion. Same with sorcerer (only necromancer is exception). Noone can learn both.
3. I'll check it.
justl wrote:sadly they dont work anymore once you crossed the continential barrier between mm6 and 7 - meaning no bonus at all

I could not reproduce it, at what month/week do you try to use cards?

Xfing wrote:Also, what do you think of making the Plane of Water inflict drowning damage on everyone? Compared to MM7, where you need a wetsuit to navigate underwater depths, in MM8 it's been pretty much handwaved and it's possible to navigate the Plane of Water with no protection whatsoever. I think that's stupid - drowning damage would be a great reason to have everyone drink Water Breathing potions, which could offer protection for the trip. Alternatively, the party could make use of wetsuits too.

No, i don't think it should work like that. I've always thought party gets some magical transformation, when passing portals to other planes, which allow them survive there - not only liquid surrounding in Plane of Water, but also temperature of Plane of Fire and lack of ground in Plane of Air.
Last edited by Rodril on May 27 2018, 15:36, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 27 2018, 18:09

As for Castle Darkmoor - yes, in original MM6 it did periodically cast Dispel Magic, removing all the buffs from the party. The green light effect like with the spell never appeared though, obviously, since it was introduced in MM7.

Thanks for another update though! Great job as always. Some remaining issues I've noticed:

- Promoting a Wizard to a Necromancer actually reduces their amount of HP and mana, resetting it to basic Sorcerer levels. If the Necromancer is supposed to be "tier 2,5", as you put it, then perhaps giving them Wizard-level HP and Mana would be a good idea?

- I still haven't checked, but have you made the Reactor invulnerable to all types of damage again, with only blasters damaging it? Last I tried I could get damage on the Reactor from basic, enchanted weapons (or perhaps even Physical).

- I understand that the Wetsuits can't be worn until a new paperdoll sprite is made for them, but they don't serve the additional purpose they did in original MM7 - they provided wearers with an effect similar to Water Breathing when crossing bodies of water - no drowning damage. Do you think you could restore it, or would it be too OP once the wetsuit is obtained and should it wait for it actually being wearable again?

- I've noticed this one right off the bat, but for some reason didn't bring it up thus far. This is more of an improvement idea than a real bug: the male Lich player character in MM8 for some reason had a new character portrait frame when casting a spell compared to the one from MM7. In MM7 the male Lich's eyes were shining and glowing when casting a spell, just like with the female Lich. In MM8 the glow was removed, and all that was left is the Lich's eyes looking downward. Obviously it looks needlessly simplified in MM8, do you think you could program the MM7 sprite back instead?

- Another suggestion: how about bringing MM6 gemstones into random loot, and not just having them obtained from crystals in dungeons in Enroth? Of course their values would have to be lowered a bit to bring them back in line with the later games' gemstones (like the Diamond at 3000 rather than its current 4000 etc).

- The Control Center only has 4 MM6-style Blaster Rifles, how about making it 5? Also, don't you think maybe the 2 games' blasters should have different stats? I'm not sure ones should be stronger than others or anything - I'd even be in favor of removing the MM6 ones altogether, as they look a bit silly in all honesty, and replacing them with the MM7 ones.

- Maybe you could bring back the Enrothian "High Priest" class, with access to both Light and Dark magic? Like we discussed before, these two schools do not overlap in the MM8 spellbook.

Oh, and I don't think the Archer needs Master in Sword - Spear Mastery can be combined with Expert Dagger, which the Archer does indeed get. Obtain an "of the Dragon" one, and your Archer's damage output will be pretty good thanks to that alone. If there are any skill changes to be made, I'd suggest the 3DO nerfs the likes of which I listed in my file from a while ago - it's your call as always though :)
Last edited by Xfing on May 27 2018, 19:55, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 27 2018, 18:45

Launched the game, and I've got some observations about item balance:

- Blasters still do have a recovery cap of 30 for me in the latest update rather then 5, unfortunately.
- Damage and value for "Halberd" and "Common Halberd" still at pre-fix values. Bows and tridents have been fixed, thanks for that!
- The bow Ullyses is at 5d2+13 against my suggested 6d2+13. All other unique bows in the game start with 6d2, I think it was an oversight.
- The crossbow Ania Selving is at 5d2+12 against my suggested 4d2+12. I actually like this change, since I realized how much weaker the crossbows turned out to be compared to bows. I still haven't obtained the Lightning Crossbow, but if it's still 4d2, I'd suggest making it 5d2 too, for consistency.
Last edited by Xfing on May 27 2018, 18:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » May 28 2018, 18:12

Rodril wrote:
justl wrote:sadly they dont work anymore once you crossed the continential barrier between mm6 and 7 - meaning no bonus at all

I could not reproduce it, at what month/week do you try to use cards?


i used it at 20th april.
the only thing that i saw was the animation for the "goodie" from the deck of fate.

i tried again with the stats-tab open, i found out what happened: whilst the mm7-lamps gives you a message "+x <attribute/xp/etc>" with the animation, the mm6 deck of fate of fate gives only the animation without the "+goodie", so it can be seen as "hm, doesnt do anything", if stats-tab isnt open.

hope that helps finding the error.

best regards,
justl
Last edited by justl on May 28 2018, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby the beavers1 » May 28 2018, 21:08

So in regards to the light and dark magic bit, I started in enroth, I was able to get my first promotion sorcerer light magic easily, but now he cannot get dark magic, whereas my priest of light (after both enroth promotions) cannot learn either. Also I meant the blackshire archers in the tower, not the white cap ones.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » May 29 2018, 3:38

@Rodril

Thanks so very much ! (about the skills)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby justl » May 29 2018, 5:05

the beavers1 wrote:So in regards to the light and dark magic bit, I started in enroth, I was able to get my first promotion sorcerer light magic easily, but now he cannot get dark magic, whereas my priest of light (after both enroth promotions) cannot learn either. Also I meant the blackshire archers in the tower, not the white cap ones.


in the cd version there were never archers in the blackshire watchtower (or any guards in different locations, see below), its probably a change from the gog-version of the game.
if rodril wanted them to be non-hostile like some guards in new sorpigal, ironfist castle, etc. they werent "flagged" the right way.

justl


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