Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 05.05.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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waltc
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby waltc » Apr 30 2018, 22:39

UnknownHuman wrote:Here is a idea.

Why not make the Inventory like MM9 ?

Its crude but will work. The only papperdoll will be 2 handed weapons. This way we/us can use ALL armor and such without any issues :)
Just a idea.


I thought the MM9 paperdolls were a huge step down graphically from M&M 6,7,8. So much nicer to actually see the specific custom weapons/armors displayed on your characters--who all looked much different from each other, as well.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Rodril » Apr 30 2018, 23:49

Xfing wrote:Can the value of the B variable you mentioned be 1? For example "2d1". I know a die can't technically have 1 side, but it really helps me in balancing the daggers :P If I can't have 2d1, then it'll get a bit troublesome making the daggers not too strong :P

Except if it "Dice of Moebius", yes both A and B can be 1.
Mortis wrote:is it possible to change skill effects or switch them with others?

MMExtesion have few events, which allow to rescript some aspects of skill's behaivor ( https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/m ... nusByItems ), but i did not use it a lot, don't know what limits are. Changing Unarmed and Dodge skills should be possible. Non-weapon items can not add damage, but event "CalcDamageToMonster" can be utilized to implement it, only problem, it does not allow to get attacker's data right now, i think, there is way to add it as well, but i have not tested it yet, will try to include in next update.
Hardest part is dualwield of maces/axes, i don't think it is possible without tweaking .exe. I don't have exact examples, existing special behaivor of items contained in "ExtraArtifacts.lua" script in "...Scripts\Global" folder.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Mortis » May 1 2018, 8:37

Thank you for your answer.
So it seems to be practically difficult to proces right now, but I also know that you have more than enough skills to at least try to implement it in the future:)

About present game status- i have noticed some bugs and strange things in game(maybe universal or maybe only in my version of the game)
GM Leather doesn't work properly- doesn't add elemental resistances as it should.
"Of sparks" effect also doesn't work . There is no single spark while attacking.
Crown of lich artifact doesn't boosts dark magic skill if you use at the same time normal item(ring for example), which also boosts this skill.
Second, properties of some artifact are not mentioned in their description and i don't know if this is intended or is it a bug.
For example, artemis bow. In description the is no information about swiftness, but when I use it, time between next attack is 30, while when I use Longseeker bow which has "swift" afix, this time is 55. In both situations bow skill is the same- GM point 10. Another issue with this bow- each attack pushes whole group of enemies few meters back , even dragons.
Merlin Staff, next artifact, has in description "swift", but doesn't change time between next attacks at all. Instead of this, it gives 5 points bonus to meditation skill.
Last edited by Mortis on May 1 2018, 8:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 1 2018, 10:13

Ok, another question: I've almost finished drafting the weapon changes, and only Spear weapons are left. I need to know whether spears, tridents and halberds have hardcoded values of +1d9 and +1d6 if used with two hands, or whether these values are dynamic. Say, if I changed one spear to be 1d8 instead, would it receive another 1d8 if I used it in two hands? I need this for the purpose of calculations, to make sure every next spear/trident/halberd is better than the one before it. With other weapons it was relatively easy, but these have this somewhat complicated mechanic added.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 1 2018, 13:41

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AipYIqF9-ia6aHtNR5Mc_XMoGkE

Here's a link to the document with my weapon change suggestions. I spent a lot of time making it, so I hope it's reasonably good! All the best weapons were slightly buffed compared to earlier, but now the single best weapon out of each category is always Treasure Level 6, which means it can only be found in the best treasure hoards and cannot be bought in stores. Finding those best weapons with optimal enchantments is going to take some doing for sure!

When designing these weapons, I made clever (I hope!) use of modifying variables A, B and C to come up with a solution where each next weapon is better than the last one, though some are only better than others when it comes to minimum damage and hit chance, but not maximum damage. This brings some weapon within single tiers closer to each other, while also giving them individual quality. No next weapon has a lower hit chance than a lower one, though, so that the next weapon in line is always at least as good in this aspect as the lower one, if not better.

Finally, this list doesn't take into account artifacts and relics. Their damage values would have to be adjusted upwards taking into account the new stats of weapons. Luckily you don't have to tinker with these weapons' values though :P
Last edited by Xfing on May 2 2018, 12:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » May 1 2018, 17:18

Rodril wrote:I thought challenges beacons supposed to reset each two years, disabled it..

Challenge Beacons do change every 1-2 years, for example a Challenge of Luck can become a Challenge of Might in 2 years, that's normal. What isn't normal, is a character being able to win a Challenge of Luck more than once. For example, if a character wins a Challenge of Luck in Ravenshore, and 2 years later a Challenge of Luck appears in Shadowspire, that same character should not be able to win it, since they've already won a Challenge of Luck before. At least, this is the way it functioned in base Might and Magic 8.


Rodril wrote:"Web Station" is good idea, but i would not let it work this way, because game already have story-driven way to travel between continents: you travel through time, not just space. Traveling through station does not imply time-jumps. Other point, i told it somewhere before, i'm afraid to touch sci-fi elements, especially this station, - it can not be just room with three exits, it require some lore-based details, which do not exist in fact (at least i don't know enough of sci-fi side of MM), and i would not invent it myself, some things look a lot more interesting, when they stays unrevealed.

Yeah, i came up with the idea of Web Station Beta 5 as a tangible reward, because each continent (Enroth, Antagarich, Jadame) has several overland areas that are not reachable via Town Portal. Jadame has Garrote Gorge, Murmurwoods, and Ironsand Desert. Antagarich has Avlee, Tatalia, Barrow Downs and Evenmorn Island. I forget which areas are not reachable via Town Portal in Enroth (been far too long since i played M&M 6), but i know there are several as well. In the individual games, this wasn't too much of a problem because you could use Lloyd's Beacon to mark these locations. However, with all three continents being present in this merge, you can't have just one spellcaster mark a Beacon to all the areas, it'd take multiple spellcasters to keep them all marked (which would be a pain to maintain). So i thought Web Station Beta 5 would be a convenient and lore-friendly way to teleport around, forgetting about the time travel aspect. Plus it would help counter the Dark path getting access to "unlimited" Blaster Rifles (since it restores a Heavenly Forge) with my other suggestion.

Was the bug affecting the Might and Magic 7 Dark Path end fixed? After retrieving the Oscillation Overthruster, i would click on the door to talk to Kastore, and it would immediately start the end cinematic for the Dark Path (i wouldn't even get the chance to click on "Final Task", which you're supposed to...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOqoOf3euLU). Then after the cinematic would end, Kastore wouldn't have a "Final Task" topic left, and the quest to bring him the Oscillation Overthruster would still be in my journal, and the Oscillation Overthruster was gone from my inventory. Afterwards, if i contacted Verdant for a Hint, she'd tell me to meet with Gavin Magnus and pass his test.
Last edited by Daedros on May 1 2018, 17:40, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Phobos » May 1 2018, 20:53

I really like those new weapon suggestions! Should make the game much more immersive. I just noticed two inconsistencies with the prices of Composite Bow and Elven Warbow - they should probably be 550 and 600, no? Anyway, excellent work, I'd love to see these implemented soon!

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 1 2018, 21:02

Phobos wrote:I really like those new weapon suggestions! Should make the game much more immersive. I just noticed two inconsistencies with the prices of Composite Bow and Elven Warbow - they should probably be 550 and 600, no? Anyway, excellent work, I'd love to see these implemented soon!


Good catch! I did so much work that it's obvious I'd miss this in one place or two due to tiredness. Updated it now! Glad you liked it, it would indeed help immersion. Of course once (and IF) armors, boots and helmets are also ported to MM8, we could do the same with those as well :P

EDIT: Another thing. I think some of the classes' HP values need looking at. I'm particularly concerned about Dark Elf Patriarchs and Nosferatus, who wind up having less HP than fully promoted Priests with some Body Building (or even without it for that matter). If all the classes from MM6/7 are brought into the game, and even the hybrid classes such as Archers and Paladins have the potential to vastly eclipse Dark Elves/Vampires (their intended functional equivalents from MM8), something needs to be changed. Perhaps that's why I always thought the MM8 classes had way less HP than the MM7 ones - though it didn't really keep them from succeeding, even against amazingly resilient enemies such as Ruby Dragons. Still, it's really hard to break 1500 in MM8 if you're not a Dragon or Troll, and the same can't be said for MM8 classes. I think some clearer balance should be brought to the merged game in regards to this.

As for an updated skill table, I'll put one forward soon. I won't make any game-breaking buffs or nerfs and the core of the classes will remain the same of course.
Last edited by Xfing on May 1 2018, 22:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » May 2 2018, 0:47

Xfing wrote:EDIT: Another thing. I think some of the classes' HP values need looking at. I'm particularly concerned about Dark Elf Patriarchs and Nosferatus, who wind up having less HP than fully promoted Priests with some Body Building (or even without it for that matter). If all the classes from MM6/7 are brought into the game, and even the hybrid classes such as Archers and Paladins have the potential to vastly eclipse Dark Elves/Vampires (their intended functional equivalents from MM8), something needs to be changed. Perhaps that's why I always thought the MM8 classes had way less HP than the MM7 ones - though it didn't really keep them from succeeding, even against amazingly resilient enemies such as Ruby Dragons. Still, it's really hard to break 1500 in MM8 if you're not a Dragon or Troll, and the same can't be said for MM8 classes. I think some clearer balance should be brought to the merged game in regards to this.

Dark Elf Patriarchs offer an amazing amount of utility with their Grandmaster Merchant, Grandmaster Disarm Trap, Master Perception, Master Item ID and Master Water/Air Magic. They're pretty good at ranged damage too with Grandmaster Bow, especially a Noblebone Bow. Their Grandmaster Chain, Expert Shield, and buff spells make their lower HP not too much of a problem either. They can also Blind opponents with a Master racial ability. Cauri Blackthorne is a party staple throughout almost all of my playthroughs due to this.
Nosferatus have Mist Form, which allows them to avoid all non-spell damage. They're also particularly tanky with dual Foulfangs (or Dueling Long Daggers of Darkness), turning them into leech tanks, which makes max HP not that important. They have access to Master Body/Mind/Spirit magic as well, giving them a backup healer role as well.
Last edited by Daedros on May 2 2018, 0:56, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 2 2018, 6:18

But still, they're meant to be hybrid classes, so clerics of all people having more hp than them is silly :p

I think that might be due to the fact that MM8-exclusive clssses have a 2-tier promotion system , and not a 3-tier one. Still, in MM8 priests and liches always had less hp than the hybrid classes. Even the lowly Ranger is way buffer than Patriarchs/Nosferatus now, not even needing body building for that either, since he gets 6 hp per level post promotion.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 2 2018, 9:16

And another thing I've noticed while playing the game. As you know, I started my journey on Jadame. I've noticed that in Jadamean hidden chests you only get artifacts and relics from MM8, and once you get all of them, they stop appearing just like in the original game. I did miss out on some, unfortunately, though I don't know why, since I know all the hidden artifact stashes (Ravenshore, Alvar, Ironsand and Ravage Roaming). Anyway, you get one shot at the MM8 artifacts and that's it.

But later on, once the supply of MM8 artifacts and relics got exhausted, I started finding certain MM6 and MM7 artifacts as random drops from monsters, and they appeared in chests in the elemental prisons in the Plane Between Planes (of all places!). Don't know if it's just my particular luck or if they're set to be this way, but what I've noticed is that these items do occur many times. I've found 3 Amucks, 2 Justices, 2 Morgans, and a randomly spawned Mordred in addition to the one you get in its quest in Enroth. I think the flags for "unique item acquired" might be resetting every time you change continent.

What I would like to see ideally is two things:
- Having all the 3 games' artifact/relic pools mixed up, so that any game's uniques can appear on any continent with the same probability, except the (hopefully temporarily) excluded armors, helmets, boots and belts from MM6/7. This would be in contrast to I experienced in Jadame - MM8's items first, until exhausted - and only then the remaining ones.
- Making sure that once an artifact/relic is found, it can never be generated by the game again, so that every item is really unique. Or if it's against your design policy and you'd like limitless uniques for everyone, make sure the MM8 items count into this too. I want my Serendine's Preservation in this save, dammit! :D

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » May 2 2018, 10:59

My Priest in MM8 does not become Priest Of Light.
I see the button topic "Priest of the Light".
I got the book and talked to the NPC that does the promotion.
Is this a bug ?

Im not sure if it works inside, the spawn that is, because sometimes I dont see the all the monsters.
Example first dungeon in New Sporigal where you save the little girl, I dont see any spiders.

BUGs : Arch Druid and Warlock do not show how much damage they will do. Just shows number over.
Example : 30 <- you see this.
10-20 <- this does not show.
15 <- you see this.
20-30 <- this does not show.
Last edited by UnknownHuman on May 2 2018, 11:22, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 2 2018, 12:24

MM7's uniques that have Good and Evil as a property, should be usable only by:
Good: any Light-promoted class
Evil: any Dark-promoted class + Vampires and Necromancers

They should therefore not be usable by any Dark Elves, Minotaurs or Trolls or any other class who has not obtained their Light or Dark promotion yet.

Oh, and Lord Kilburn's shield hasn't appeared for me at all in Blackshire this playthrough. Should I just wait until the city respawns, or is it a bug? If it is, please fix :P
Last edited by Xfing on May 2 2018, 12:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » May 2 2018, 18:10

Xfing wrote:I did miss out on some, unfortunately, though I don't know why, since I know all the hidden artifact stashes (Ravenshore, Alvar, Ironsand and Ravage Roaming).

Make sure that when you're looking through the chests that can contain a M&M8 Artifact, to throw all the other items out of the chest, to clear room for the Artifact to spawn. This was a fix that Grayface had to make, because otherwise you could get screwed out of an Artifact by too much junk spawning in a chest before the Artifact did.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 2 2018, 20:34

Daedros wrote:
Xfing wrote:I did miss out on some, unfortunately, though I don't know why, since I know all the hidden artifact stashes (Ravenshore, Alvar, Ironsand and Ravage Roaming).

Make sure that when you're looking through the chests that can contain a M&M8 Artifact, to throw all the other items out of the chest, to clear room for the Artifact to spawn. This was a fix that Grayface had to make, because otherwise you could get screwed out of an Artifact by too much junk spawning in a chest before the Artifact did.


Oh yeah, I'm aware of that! With Grayface's patch oftentimes lots of stuff keep spawning in a chest once you clear it out the first time. I've been doing my due diligence, though I indeed might have missed a unique item or two this way. Weird that those super high-level chests spawn with so much stuff in them that they can't fit it, one would think the programmers should have made the chest's capacity the limiting factor for the amount of stuff it spawns.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Daedros » May 2 2018, 21:27

Xfing wrote:
Daedros wrote:
Xfing wrote:I did miss out on some, unfortunately, though I don't know why, since I know all the hidden artifact stashes (Ravenshore, Alvar, Ironsand and Ravage Roaming).

Make sure that when you're looking through the chests that can contain a M&M8 Artifact, to throw all the other items out of the chest, to clear room for the Artifact to spawn. This was a fix that Grayface had to make, because otherwise you could get screwed out of an Artifact by too much junk spawning in a chest before the Artifact did.


Oh yeah, I'm aware of that! With Grayface's patch oftentimes lots of stuff keep spawning in a chest once you clear it out the first time. I've been doing my due diligence, though I indeed might have missed a unique item or two this way. Weird that those super high-level chests spawn with so much stuff in them that they can't fit it, one would think the programmers should have made the chest's capacity the limiting factor for the amount of stuff it spawns.

Well, just received a second copy of a "unique" M&M 8 Artifact, the Staff of the Swamps. I was clearing out Escaton's Palace (i've saved a Lloyd's Beacon to the Plane Between Planes, so i can return there even though i've beaten M&M8), and a Staff of the Swamps was sitting on the floor of one of the rooms, even though i've already gotten one before.
Escaton's Palace is a pretty good place to get Artifacts and high end items, because it has numerous Lvl 6 Treasure Chests in it. It seems that any source of Lvl 6 loot, can give Artifact duplicates (particularly of M&M 6/7 gear). It'd be interesting to see a compiled list of all locations in the three games that have Lvl 6 Treasure Chests present.

Edit: Alright, not 5 minutes after posting this, i opened some more Chests in Escaton's Palace, and received a third Staff of the Swamps, as well as a second Berserker's Belt, from the same chest. It looks like Rodril made it to where you can receive duplicates of M&M8 Artifacts now.
Last edited by Daedros on May 2 2018, 21:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby UnknownHuman » May 3 2018, 4:51

Xfing wrote:And another thing I've noticed while playing the game. As you know, I started my journey on Jadame. I've noticed that in Jadamean hidden chests you only get artifacts and relics from MM8, and once you get all of them, they stop appearing just like in the original game. I did miss out on some, unfortunately, though I don't know why, since I know all the hidden artifact stashes (Ravenshore, Alvar, Ironsand and Ravage Roaming). Anyway, you get one shot at the MM8 artifacts and that's it.



Dont forget Garrot Gorge secret chest does not have any relics in it for some reason ?
Or should it be without, I remember finding before. I think.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 3 2018, 7:13

UnknownHuman wrote:
Xfing wrote:And another thing I've noticed while playing the game. As you know, I started my journey on Jadame. I've noticed that in Jadamean hidden chests you only get artifacts and relics from MM8, and once you get all of them, they stop appearing just like in the original game. I did miss out on some, unfortunately, though I don't know why, since I know all the hidden artifact stashes (Ravenshore, Alvar, Ironsand and Ravage Roaming). Anyway, you get one shot at the MM8 artifacts and that's it.



Dont forget Garrot Gorge secret chest does not have any relics in it for some reason ?
Or should it be without, I remember finding before. I think.


It never had any, it just has some weak stuff in it.

In Garotte Gorge most players miss out on artifacts because as many as 4 or even 5 of them can spawn on the floor in the dragon caves hoard once you enter them. That's by far the meanest way to make an unaware player miss out on some uniques, since even if you have knowledge of this, the only thing you can do is enter the caves for the first time while you're strong enough to make it to the treasure (or invisible). I have been able to obtain all the unique items in MM8 on one or two playthroughs, you just need to make sure you open the secret chest before the area respawns (several months usually).

As far as Garotte Gorge is concerned, you also get a unique in the Naga Vault chest.

So yeah, it seems like duplicate uniques will spawn from creatures and level 6 chests, but not "non-level 6 chests with a guaranteed unique" or "guaranteed floor locations". Looks like these will invariably spawn MM8 artifacts and they never repeat an item once it's been spawned already. I think it should be changed so that they can spawn unique items from any of the 3 games, just like level 6 chests do. The behavior regarding duplicates should also be unified for all the ways of acquiring unique items, be it duplication for all of them, or for none.
Last edited by Xfing on May 3 2018, 7:20, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Rodril » May 3 2018, 18:44

Hello, patch link have been updated. I've added new item values, thanks to Xfing. Note: if you use any localization, reapply it's EnglishT.lod as well to make changes happen. Also few fixes, including artifacts doubles and clubs.
Mortis wrote:GM Leather doesn't work properly- doesn't add elemental resistances as it should.

Should be fixed now.
Mortis wrote:"Of sparks" effect also doesn't work . There is no single spark while attacking.

Where did you get item with this effect? I think, it has 0% chance to appear. It is service bonus, I've used for video in first post, effect disabled here.
Mortis wrote:Crown of lich artifact doesn't boosts dark magic skill if you use at the same time normal item(ring for example), which also boosts this skill.

I look into it more. Seems these bonuses are not supposed to stack according to original game.
Swiftness bonus should be fixed now. I've made Artemis being able to push enemies in line with it's decription.
Xfing wrote: I need to know whether spears, tridents and halberds have hardcoded values of +1d9 and +1d6 if used with two hands, or whether these values are dynamic.

Unfortunate, i did not check it before, can not say for now.
Daedros wrote:Was the bug affecting the Might and Magic 7 Dark Path end fixed?
I think so.
Xfing wrote:- Making sure that once an artifact/relic is found, it can never be generated by the game again, so that every item is really unique. Or if it's against your design policy and you'd like limitless uniques for everyone, make sure the MM8 items count into this too. I want my Serendine's Preservation in this save, dammit!

Some relics are handplaced. No duplicates in new games after today's patch, I hope, in old save games you might get just one more.
UnknownHuman wrote:My Priest in MM8 does not become Priest Of Light.

Try again, please.
Are spiders present in fact, just invisible? Or spiders do not exist at all? I could not reproduce any issue with them for now. Sometimes it is hard to see them because of their low height.
Druid and Warlock should be fixed now.
Xfing wrote:MM7's uniques that have Good and Evil as a property, should be usable only by:Good: any Light-promoted classEvil: any Dark-promoted class + Vampires and Necromancers

Sounds logic. I'll check these artifacts.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » May 3 2018, 22:01

Sweet! I'll replay tomorrow and see the new item values. Thanks for implementing these!


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