Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Graff
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Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby Graff » Mar 27 2017, 5:33

First of all, shout out to GrayFace for making it possible to even play this game and all the work he's put into improving it. I just finished a playthrough (SCSC) and here's some notes.

Things I think are bugs:
-In Paradise Valley, the fountain that gives +100 Power Temporarily will display "+100 Power temporary." instead of "Refreshing!" when the fountain is exhausted.
-Casting "Town Portal" takes the players turn on opening the selection book when the spell is still cancellable. In comparison, Lloyd's Beacon uses the player's turn only after a selection has been made.
-"Shared Life" does not take into account unconscious players negative hitpoints. Perhaps this is by design to avoid having the spell kill your entire party when one player is very negative and the rest are low but I think there should at least be a patch option to turn off and on for including unconscious (not dead/eradicated) players in the pool.
-The chest with the crystal skull in the "Hall of the Fire Lord" requires a key to open. If the chest is not successfully disarmed the key is used but the chest is not opened rendering the chest impossible to open afterwards.
-Similar issue with the double chest in Dragoon's Cavern; unsuccessful disarming of the chest sets off two traps in a row and the first chest is impossible to access.
-The range on Meteor Shower and Starburst is not exactly set as arrow range on the patch modification
-One horseshoe spawns underneath inn at Castle Ironfist.

Things I think can be changed and would be beneficial without changing game:
-Have the circus only take the minimum amount of inventory for a pyramid instead of the everything. Currently you can have 1000 pts in inventory and you'll lose them all for a single gold pyramid.
-Switch the X and Y coordinates for picking up inventory so new items stack left down instead of the current left up. This would fix most cases of the character saying "There's no room!"
-Change code so when right clicking with an equipable item it equips it instead of saying "ITEM can not be used that way"
-Change code so when right clicking with a broken item character attempts to fix item

Changes I'd like to see that aren't important:
-Make crystals like food bags that require perception to loot; so crystals disappear even if they are "Useless crystal" and only those with expert perception can interact with them.
-Patch option for crystals to have 100% yield.

Other things:
-I read a few places that the Scholar NPC doesn't actually provide a 5% experience boost, was this fixed/ever a real problem?
-Does becoming an expert/master in shield reduce the recovery penalty or only add to armor class? Wondering if it's better for a cleric to have weapon only.
-Map crossings can be made diagonally. I did not know this and it's a game changer.
-Can an infinite amount of genies be generated in the shadow guild? I counted well over a hundred before I stopped.
-Are the "Look Out!" wells in Free Haven and Frozen Highlands unlimited respawn and how long is the wait between spawns?

Just thought I'd write my thoughts out on this...

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motter25420
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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby motter25420 » Mar 27 2017, 19:32

""-Change code so when right clicking with a broken item character attempts to fix item""

The game already does this.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby Graff » Mar 28 2017, 1:37

motter25420 wrote:""-Change code so when right clicking with a broken item character attempts to fix item""

The game already does this.


Image

Wasn't a great description, I meant like this picture shows. It would make repairing things without switching inventory possible.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby GrayFace » Mar 29 2017, 2:23

Graff wrote:-In Paradise Valley, the fountain that gives +100 Power Temporarily will display "+100 Power temporary." instead of "Refreshing!" when the fountain is exhausted.

Thanks, I'll check it.

Graff wrote:-Casting "Town Portal" takes the players turn on opening the selection book when the spell is still cancellable. In comparison, Lloyd's Beacon uses the player's turn only after a selection has been made.

It was too minor to fix.

Graff wrote:-"Shared Life" does not take into account unconscious players negative hitpoints. Perhaps this is by design to avoid having the spell kill your entire party when one player is very negative and the rest are low but I think there should at least be a patch option to turn off and on for including unconscious (not dead/eradicated) players in the pool.

Do you mean making them conscious again? Definitely not a bug. "Shared Life" has a much bigger problem that renders it nearly useless - it reduces HP of players with a lot of HP if the party has almost full HP.

Graff wrote:-The chest with the crystal skull in the "Hall of the Fire Lord" requires a key to open. If the chest is not successfully disarmed the key is used but the chest is not opened rendering the chest impossible to open afterwards.
-Similar issue with the double chest in Dragoon's Cavern; unsuccessful disarming of the chest sets off two traps in a row and the first chest is impossible to access.

Both fixed in the next version.

Graff wrote:-The range on Meteor Shower and Starburst is not exactly set as arrow range on the patch modification

Didn't know about that.

Graff wrote:-Have the circus only take the minimum amount of inventory for a pyramid instead of the everything. Currently you can have 1000 pts in inventory and you'll lose them all for a single gold pyramid.

Sounds like a bug.

Graff wrote:-Switch the X and Y coordinates for picking up inventory so new items stack left down instead of the current left up. This would fix most cases of the character saying "There's no room!"

Good idea.

Graff wrote:-Change code so when right clicking with an equipable item it equips it instead of saying "ITEM can not be used that way"
-Change code so when right clicking with a broken item character attempts to fix item

Interesting thoughts.

Graff wrote:-I read a few places that the Scholar NPC doesn't actually provide a 5% experience boost, was this fixed/ever a real problem?

Fixed in the next version.

Graff wrote:-Does becoming an expert/master in shield reduce the recovery penalty or only add to armor class? Wondering if it's better for a cleric to have weapon only.

Would check.

Graff wrote:-Can an infinite amount of genies be generated in the shadow guild? I counted well over a hundred before I stopped.

Only 500. If you kill them and pick up their corpses, you can generate more.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby Graff » Apr 3 2017, 4:52

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-In Paradise Valley, the fountain that gives +100 Power Temporarily will display "+100 Power temporary." instead of "Refreshing!" when the fountain is exhausted.

Thanks, I'll check it.


Very minor I know but figured I would write it down. Thanks!

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Casting "Town Portal" takes the players turn on opening the selection book when the spell is still cancellable. In comparison, Lloyd's Beacon uses the player's turn only after a selection has been made.

It was too minor to fix.


Ah, ok. Was hoping it would be just a copy paste job to make them the same. I'd always forget which players had the beacons I wanted so I'd "cast" the spell a lot just to check.

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-"Shared Life" does not take into account unconscious players negative hitpoints. Perhaps this is by design to avoid having the spell kill your entire party when one player is very negative and the rest are low but I think there should at least be a patch option to turn off and on for including unconscious (not dead/eradicated) players in the pool.

Do you mean making them conscious again? Definitely not a bug. "Shared Life" has a much bigger problem that renders it nearly useless - it reduces HP of players with a lot of HP if the party has almost full HP.


I'm aware of the uselessness of the spell when dealing with high HP's of everyone. What the spell would actually be very useful for is in dealing with a knockout blow early in a battle (EX: Specter / Greater Werewolf) The way it works now is that you must cast a healing spell to get the unconscious player barely conscious (allowing for crushing blows to bring them very negative) and then another round to get Shared Life to get OK health. The recovery time for two spells rather than just one is a significant. Same deal with bringing back a dead/eradicated player; one spell to bring them back to unconscious at HP:0 and then Shared Life could take them to a stable HP right away.

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-The chest with the crystal skull in the "Hall of the Fire Lord" requires a key to open. If the chest is not successfully disarmed the key is used but the chest is not opened rendering the chest impossible to open afterwards.
-Similar issue with the double chest in Dragoon's Cavern; unsuccessful disarming of the chest sets off two traps in a row and the first chest is impossible to access.

Both fixed in the next version.


Great, thanks!

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-The range on Meteor Shower and Starburst is not exactly set as arrow range on the patch modification

Didn't know about that.


I've noticed I get partial showers at the edge of the boundary and there have certainly been times I've engaged in bow shooting that the spells would simply not rain down anything. Honestly, I didn't know this was something I could toggle back to the default so it's not a big deal... Maybe set the default on the patch to off though?

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Have the circus only take the minimum amount of inventory for a pyramid instead of the everything. Currently you can have 1000 pts in inventory and you'll lose them all for a single gold pyramid.

Sounds like a bug.


Here's some screens. Would save a lot of time dumping inventory when going for prizes.
Image
Image

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Switch the X and Y coordinates for picking up inventory so new items stack left down instead of the current left up. This would fix most cases of the character saying "There's no room!"

Good idea.


I'd love to see this happen, I think all the later MM's have it set like this.

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Change code so when right clicking with an equipable item it equips it instead of saying "ITEM can not be used that way"
-Change code so when right clicking with a broken item character attempts to fix item

Interesting thoughts.


I figure there's a possible utility there that's not being used for anything right now, why not?

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-I read a few places that the Scholar NPC doesn't actually provide a 5% experience boost, was this fixed/ever a real problem?

Fixed in the next version.


Great, thank you!

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Does becoming an expert/master in shield reduce the recovery penalty or only add to armor class? Wondering if it's better for a cleric to have weapon only.

Would check.


I was just wondering; I'm probably not great with the stats on my playthrough anyways.

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Can an infinite amount of genies be generated in the shadow guild? I counted well over a hundred before I stopped.

Only 500. If you kill them and pick up their corpses, you can generate more.


Good to know; thank you!

The only other thing not answered that I'd like to know is the horseshoe thing at ironfist. Is it under the inn?

Also big thank you for fixing the sliding body thing; I really noticed this compared to my last playthrough.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby GrayFace » May 8 2017, 3:23

GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Does becoming an expert/master in shield reduce the recovery penalty or only add to armor class? Wondering if it's better for a cleric to have weapon only.

Would check.

Halved on Expert, eliminated on Master.

Graff wrote:-One horseshoe spawns underneath inn at Castle Ironfist.

No, there are 2 horseshoes.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby Macros the Black » May 8 2017, 12:17

GrayFace wrote:
GrayFace wrote:
Graff wrote:-Does becoming an expert/master in shield reduce the recovery penalty or only add to armor class? Wondering if it's better for a cleric to have weapon only.

Would check.

Halved on Expert, eliminated on Master.
That's surprising. Perhaps the tooltip could be changed?
Last edited by Macros the Black on May 8 2017, 12:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby GrayFace » May 9 2017, 23:20

Graff wrote:-Are the "Look Out!" wells in Free Haven and Frozen Highlands unlimited respawn and how long is the wait between spawns?

Respawn period is 1 month.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby Anubis » May 10 2017, 18:51

@ Grayface:

Free Haven sewers, in the large room with the random acid bursts: Once you clear the entire area of enemies, there are still red dots visible w/ Wizard Eye as well as hissing sounds similar to that of cobras near the wooden walkway. Can you remove that, please? It's annoying and I pulled my hair out for years trying to figure out how to kill them and make the hissing sounds stop. Red herring at its finest.

Superior/Supreme Temple of Baa (Whichever one had the Memory Crystal): Is it possible to make it so the AI creatures no longer fall in the lava? Adding in some sort of invisible barrier that AI cannot pass...like the one in Darkmoor. If you take the long way around, chances are a lot of the enemies will end up in the lava, including Slicker Silvertongue. If that's possible to fix, maybe you could also look into the issue of the minotaurs falling off the bridge in Thunderfist Mountain (In MM7). Say...increase the height of the sides of the bridge so the minotaurs no longer fall down?
Last edited by Anubis on May 10 2017, 19:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby GrayFace » May 11 2017, 11:59

Anubis wrote:Free Haven sewers, in the large room with the random acid bursts: Once you clear the entire area of enemies, there are still red dots visible w/ Wizard Eye as well as hissing sounds similar to that of cobras near the wooden walkway. Can you remove that, please? It's annoying and I pulled my hair out for years trying to figure out how to kill them and make the hissing sounds stop. Red herring at its finest.

Thanks for reminding! Here they are BTW: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kb41g06z590hu ... a.png?dl=0 Killable with an explosive bow or magic.

Anubis wrote:Superior/Supreme Temple of Baa (Whichever one had the Memory Crystal): Is it possible to make it so the AI creatures no longer fall in the lava? Adding in some sort of invisible barrier that AI cannot pass...like the one in Darkmoor. If you take the long way around, chances are a lot of the enemies will end up in the lava, including Slicker Silvertongue. If that's possible to fix, maybe you could also look into the issue of the minotaurs falling off the bridge in Thunderfist Mountain (In MM7). Say...increase the height of the sides of the bridge so the minotaurs no longer fall down?

I'll see if I can change it in the code of my patches.
Last edited by GrayFace on May 11 2017, 15:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby Graff » May 15 2017, 3:06

Thank you for the replies GrayFace! I really appreciate you keeping this project alive.

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Re: Things about MM6, mostly regarding GrayFace patch

Postby waltc » Jun 25 2017, 17:07

Graff wrote:
I'm aware of the uselessness of the spell when dealing with high HP's of everyone. What the spell would actually be very useful for is in dealing with a knockout blow early in a battle (EX: Specter / Greater Werewolf) The way it works now is that you must cast a healing spell to get the unconscious player barely conscious (allowing for crushing blows to bring them very negative) and then another round to get Shared Life to get OK health. The recovery time for two spells rather than just one is a significant. Same deal with bringing back a dead/eradicated player; one spell to bring them back to unconscious at HP:0 and then Shared Life could take them to a stable HP right away.


Actually, I've always rather liked Shared life, but then I always invoke it just after a rest or with characters fully healed, etc. It transfers hit points from those who have them in abundance to those who don't, dropping the hit points of the healthiest characters, of course. But then I cast healing spells to simply restore the hit points of the healthiest characters *before* going into a fight. Etc.

Surprised to see folks thinking the spell is "useless"--I have always found it very useful...;)
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