MM X - Earth Spells (what would you change?)

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Do you think Earth Spells need some rework?

Yes, start all from scratch.
0
No votes
No, it's so perfect that it can be divided by zero.
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No votes
Do we have earth spells in the game? (Dunno, lol)
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No votes
A few tweaks here and there. Let me explain...
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100%
 
Total votes: 2

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Panda Tar
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MM X - Earth Spells (what would you change?)

Postby Panda Tar » Apr 24 2014, 0:32

Hello, nurse.

Following the path to check on your opinion regarding a possible rework for spells, let's start with Earth Magic School. Please, post your suggestions and give your opinion on the subject.

***

I vote that it needs some tweaks here and there.

For all schools, I'd place an additional spell to the Master level, equaling the number of spells for each school as we have in MM VII.

EARTH MAGIC

Spells taken
Poison cloud (one property used for 'Rock golem' and lingering damage and are of effect passed to acid burst). Why? Because I like bamboos. Seriously, because the spell had a repetitive feeling about it, not to mention an unexplainable effect against ranged foes (which don't attack through it). Not that I can't understand this effect, it simply is not described as an effect of that spell. It's like it's a bug.
Crushing weight (boosted to a new spell with large aoe, thus higher mana cost): the spell is almost nice, if it wasn't the chance of failure being rather high and you can only target 1 foe per time and the lower hp a foe has, the lower it'll damage it: but what bothers most is the high failing ratio associated with the single targeting feature.

Spells added
Rock golem: Master level spell.
Cycle of nature: Master level spell considering the idea of having the Petrified ailment in this game.
Earth split: Grandmaster level spell.

Novice
    1. Earth ward
    2. Entangle
    3. Poison spray (replaces Regeneration, just exchanging places, because regeneration is a bit OP to be given so lightly)
    4. Cure poison
Expert
    1. Regeneration (replaces Poison Spray)
    2. Stone skin
    3. Strength of the earth
Master
    1. Acid burst: it’ll damage 33-47 and reduce armor values for all targets in front by 50%. Lingering acid will do 10-15 damage for another 2 turns whenever enemy takes an action. Damage is given after that action (so it's mainly a fusion of Poison Cloud and Acid Splash; it'll be a 'poison for bosses')
    2. Rock golem (replaces Poison Cloud): creates an impassable barrier in front of the party for 2 turns. Only 1 barrier can be active per time. Neither the party or enemies can attack the golem, nor move nor perform a ranged attack through it (so, here you have the Poison Cloud non-described effect taking a role as a new spell, with an additional different usage)
    3. Cycle of nature (new Master tier spell): it can restore a target’s condition from petrified to normal (if a petrify condition was to be added to the game, that is). If cast on a foe it can instantly turn it into dust based on its current HP. Chance = 15 + [(Max HP – HP) + 1]/100. It wouldn't work on bosses, of course
Grandmaster
    1. Earth split (replaces Crushing Weight): on an area of 3 in front of the party, all foes can suffer damage ranging from 10% to 20% their current HP. It won’t affect floating, earth based and winged units. The more units in range, the more mana it’ll cost. Base mana cost is 70 + 5 mana per affected target, even if said target resists the spell (it's a pretty much more impressive version of the crushing weight which escalates power and mana consumption when there are more than 1 target


This is my version of a slightly reworked Earth Magic School Spell List.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Postby phamlongtuan » Apr 24 2014, 2:12

Poison Cloud is cool, you just do not know how to use them properly

1. At level 14-20, i can kill nearly all the mob in the map just with Hit and Run tactic from poison cloud.
2. The damage from Poison cloud also is massive since they hit multiple target and forever. You can just do a quick calculate your self the whole time real damage Poison does in total. They are so good for small amount of Mana
3. They also reduce Evade, what can be better for Might character?

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Panda Tar
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Postby Panda Tar » Apr 24 2014, 3:08

I see what you mean. :)

My point is that his spell, Poison Cloud, the way it is, is simply too good. Do you even remember there's "Crushing Weight"? In addition to all you stated, when you cast Poison Cloud in front of you and there are ranged units only beyond it, they do not attack. So, it's a sort of super-venomous-armor-reducing-damaging-low-mana-cost-shield-saving spell. It's simply unbalanced beyond all other Earth Spells, o even the other Magic Schools.

If you spam a single spell too much in a game, it's either the ultimate spell or an unbalance one. Given that it's not the ultimate spell, it's something not balanced.

What I wanted to propose was dismembering this spell into 2 to allow other sort of strategies that wouldn't simply be unbalanced or OP, but using always and simply a same spell.

Withal I tried to prune any excessive usage of lower level magic and balance all of them, trying to give them some uniqueness and escalated power throughout the game.

Poison Cloud is nice, I concede. :D The problem is the rest.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Postby Arret » Apr 24 2014, 23:48

Earth magic if anything needs a massive nerf. The school is offensive and defensive and to me was by far the strongest in the whole game.

Regeneration is a great healing spell even late.

Poison cloud puts a defense lowering ability on a full group, and even sits there for multiple turns should anything walk into it in addition to dealing damage.

There is also the other spell that reduces armor (acid burst?) and which actually works on bosses despite the supposed immunity to poison.

Stone skin is one of the best buffs in the game, making it so you can wear cloth armor all game and not have to dump points into armor skills past Expert, and only that to wear relics.

Crushing weight was just mass distortion renamed. It was mainly a gimmick spell then, and it felt the same way in this game. I would've preferred a spell that increases damage based on how many times it hits the target usable on bosses, rather than a diminishing returns style move.

Moving regeneration to expert makes it so you have no healing spells in the game until expert. Unless you put a lot more potions in the game (like it had on launch until the changes) you need to leave something.

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Postby Panda Tar » Apr 25 2014, 0:07

Arret wrote:Moving regeneration to expert makes it so you have no healing spells in the game until expert. Unless you put a lot more potions in the game (like it had on launch until the changes) you need to leave something.


True.

Oh, and acid burst works on bosses because it's acid, not poison. At least that's why I think it works.
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Postby hellegennes » Apr 25 2014, 14:25

What are you talking about? Earth magic doesn't have any strong offensive spells. There are a lot of things that are immune to poison. Fire, water and air have a lot more incredibly effective offensive spells plus they all have strong buffs.

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Postby Arret » Apr 26 2014, 0:43

Not all offensive spells are direct damage. The debuffs allow your melee to destroy everything in addition to the damage over time and most importantly they are cheap to cast.

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Postby hellegennes » Apr 26 2014, 19:46

Yes, but fire, air and water can easily lay waste to anything with 1500+ damage, something which I doubt melee attacks are capable of, even with the strongest debuffs.


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