Your Favourite M&M

[GreatEmerald]

MM6, not because it's my first MM game. and not because it's my first western rpg ( Diablo doesn't count ). But because of all the fond memories I have with this game.

And the fond memories are because it's your first MM game...

[XEL II]

You're saying this almost as if MM6 is not a good game of which one can have fond memories for reasons other than it being his first

[Secret_Holder]

MM6, not because it's my first MM game. and not because it's my first western rpg ( Diablo doesn't count ). But because of all the fond memories I have with this game.

And the fond memories are because it's your first MM game...

ffs... Respect the diversity of opinions. Nobody likes hipsters, but RPG-hipsters are the worst.

[BoardGuest808888]

I'd go with the 7th. It wasn't short like 8th, but also not long and tedious like 6th.

With 5th (IIRC the one with Xeen world), too many puzzles. I hate puzzles.

[GreatEmerald]

You're saying this almost as if MM6 is not a good game of which one can have fond memories for reasons other than it being his first

Not that it can't, but the post sounded hypocritical. It's just talk about why it's good due to nostalgia...

[Dharcness]

You're saying this almost as if MM6 is not a good game of which one can have fond memories for reasons other than it being his first

Not that it can't, but the post sounded hypocritical. It's just talk about why it's good due to nostalgia...

You seem to have some kind of an issue here. Not sure why.

Can't we just accept other people's opinion (even if it's different that yours) and get along?

[Arret]

I think this was the part he was talking about:

Aha! Internet!! Oooo..there's lots of info in the internet. *smack forehead* So this is how you should play the game!

Unfortunately, The other MM games doesn't give me the same kind of Ooh! Aaah! anymore.

which would make the other games a different experience, but it's a subjective topic by nature and arguing about it is a waste of time.

So moving on, I'm mildly surprised no one went for the first game. I figured there would be a nostalgia factor for at least 1 person.

[GreatEmerald]

You seem to have some kind of an issue here. Not sure why.

Can't we just accept other people's opinion (even if it's different that yours) and get along?

I don't have an issue at all, just pointing out an inconsistency.

[Dharcness]

You seem to have some kind of an issue here. Not sure why.

Can't we just accept other people's opinion (even if it's different that yours) and get along?

I don't have an issue at all, just pointing out an inconsistency.

Perhaps if I got a whole day thinking why I like MM6 better, I would list it all. But unfortunately I can only list a few of it in several minutes time. Those that I listed were on top of my head during that time.

Thousand appologize to any inconsistency created.

[hellegennes]

There's no reason for negativity. GE just pointed out that several of these reasons were based on the fact that Dharcness' first MM game. Any of these could have been said for MM7, for example.

[Dharcness]

Probably, but in my opinion, MM6 trumps MM7 in several areas.

1. Dungeons in MM6 is bigger, way way bigger. I prefer bigger dungeons than smaller ones. Not sure why it got small in MM7 and even smaller in MM8. Probably because all those people who got lost and running in circle?

2. More dungeons to explore, each is quite different than the other. New Sorpigal alone got 3 dungeons. each dungeons layout is different.

3. No magics that makes your characters achieve near invincible. Protection from Magic in MM7 is different than the one in MM6, Disease? Stoning? Death? Paralyse? In mm7 this won't be a problem. In mm6, monsters actually can kill your high level party outright. So you still have to be very careful.

4. Nicer music, okay this might be subjective. But the 3 musics in New Sorpigal is really relaxing and peaceful.

5. Real human pictures used (I think?) in characters and npc. I like them a lot. Too bad no other MM games or others rpgs used them. sadly.

6. Reputation actually mean something.

7. Nice starting town. Nothing beats nice a cozy coastal town of New Sorpigal with a really relaxing and peaceful music.

8. Being able to master both light and dark magic. Muahahah! I'm both good and evil!!

[OneHour]

I always felt that 6 had the best story (and was the biggest) but gameplay was still a tad crude. 7 was a close second. But I like the different races/classes in 8.
Nine has the weakest story, and all the "3D" did was make it less compatible with many computers.
Still, over all, not a loser in the whole list.
(Please, please, please let me say the same thing after 10 comes out.)

[Bandobras Took]

Probably, but in my opinion, MM6 trumps MM7 in several areas.

1. Dungeons in MM6 is bigger, way way bigger. I prefer bigger dungeons than smaller ones. Not sure why it got small in MM7 and even smaller in MM8. Probably because all those people who got lost and running in circle?

2. More dungeons to explore, each is quite different than the other. New Sorpigal alone got 3 dungeons. each dungeons layout is different.

Oddly enough, I get the opposite feeling playing MM6. The interminable dungeons filled with 8,000,000 copies of the same monster make me feel like I'm in the same dungeon over and over again.

4. Nicer music, okay this might be subjective. But the 3 musics in New Sorpigal is really relaxing and peaceful.

Got to agree with you there -- and I'll add the snowy theme to the list.

5. Real human pictures used (I think?) in characters and npc. I like them a lot. Too bad no other MM games or others rpgs used them. sadly.

The NPCs weren't bad, but the PC pictures were just hideous. Give me MM7's PC Portraits every time.

[hellegennes]

Probably, but in my opinion, MM6 trumps MM7 in several areas.

Hey, I'm with you. I like MM6 better for several reasons (most of which you can read in previous pages).

There were many reasons why some elements were changed for MM7. Content-wise, MM7 was probably bigger but the fact that you had to make a choice, narrowed your quest and dungeon options. MM6 was actually criticized by a lot of people for the fact that it was so difficult! Especially Castle Darkmoor. In my view, that made the game much better, but many gamers feel that a notoriously difficult game detracts from the experience of playing.

As for actual human portraits, some people criticized this aspect of the game because it felt a bit weird. They changed that not only to avoid criticism but because it's cheaper to not use actual actors and you can also do much more with 3D models. Every shop and place you enter in MM7 has animated NPCs whereas in MM6 they were all static. They also were all humans*, unlike MM7 and MM8 where you could have orcs, dragons, minotaurs, liches, etc., as NPCs.

I too like the music better, it's much more varied than MM7's and dungeons had better suited music. I especially like the snow theme and Free Haven's guitar-based soothing music, which was re-used in H6.

* save for very few NPC portraits, like the goblin in Goblinwatch.

[Bandobras Took]

MM6 was actually criticized by a lot of people for the fact that it was so difficult! Especially Castle Darkmoor. In my view, that made the game much better, but many gamers feel that a notoriously difficult game detracts from the experience of playing.

The *kind* of difficulty makes a difference; a game like Dragon Age was difficult for me, but merely in the sense that I felt like I always needed to be paying attention and using my characters' abilities to the utmost or I would die. MM6 felt more like "We'll drop 500 ranged enemies in a room and see if the player can figure out some way to survive, and Heaven help them if they don't have dedicated casters."

[hellegennes]

However, it was more realistic. Most of the monsters you encounter late in the game are not difficult on their own but became significant when encountered in large groups. That's much more realistic than having less enemies but far stronger. It also offers different kinds of strategies than just casting spells. Some of these battles were meant to be played in turn-based fashion and others not.

[GreatEmerald]

1. Dungeons in MM6 is bigger, way way bigger. I prefer bigger dungeons than smaller ones. Not sure why it got small in MM7 and even smaller in MM8. Probably because all those people who got lost and running in circle?

Yea, that's a fair point. I also found some of the dungeons in later games to be too small. Hall under the hill could have been more extensive, for instance.

2. More dungeons to explore, each is quite different than the other. New Sorpigal alone got 3 dungeons. each dungeons layout is different.

Well, statistically speaking, MM7 has more dungeons. Just that they are smaller.

3. No magics that makes your characters achieve near invincible. Protection from Magic in MM7 is different than the one in MM6, Disease? Stoning? Death? Paralyse? In mm7 this won't be a problem. In mm6, monsters actually can kill your high level party outright. So you still have to be very careful.

That's one thing why I actually don't like MM6. It gets frustrating when you are pitted against monsters that cause such effects, and you can't do anything about it. The most irritating thing is how everything on Hermit's Isle can break your gear. There's no point to it, it's just annoying for the sake of being annoying. Same thing with all the evil eyes in castles. If you defeat one group of them, then you can defeat all of them, no need to make you prove that over and over again.

4. Nicer music, okay this might be subjective. But the 3 musics in New Sorpigal is really relaxing and peaceful.

That's true. MM6 does have a lot more memorable music than other titles. In MM7 they did have some nice music, too (the Song of Grass and the music in the Tularean Forest dungeon come to mind), but not nearly as many, and some pieces of music were pretty dull. In MM8 nearly every track is that, with a few exceptions (the most notable being Murmurwoods music).

5. Real human pictures used (I think?) in characters and npc. I like them a lot. Too bad no other MM games or others rpgs used them. sadly.

I'm not a fan of photos in games. They clash a lot with the rendered environment. Plus, rendered portraits are made in a way that they look good - a real photo will most often not achieve such an effect, as 3D renders allow for more flexibility. Also, an important thing is that people like what looks good, not what is realistic. Realism is actually very boring most of the time.

6. Reputation actually mean something.

I suppose. But the Diplomacy skill is still utterly useless.

7. Nice starting town. Nothing beats nice a cozy coastal town of New Sorpigal with a really relaxing and peaceful music.

Yea, although it could have used less goblin respawns

8. Being able to master both light and dark magic. Muahahah! I'm both good and evil!!

That's a nice thing, yes. Although if you master Dark, you can no longer master Light (but not vice versa).

The *kind* of difficulty makes a difference; a game like Dragon Age was difficult for me, but merely in the sense that I felt like I always needed to be paying attention and using my characters' abilities to the utmost or I would die. MM6 felt more like "We'll drop 500 ranged enemies in a room and see if the player can figure out some way to survive, and Heaven help them if they don't have dedicated casters."

Indeed. That's one thing that I like about Secret of the Inner Sanctum, actually. Due to simple technical limitations of a battlefield that could only have only several enemies, fights there are difficult, but in a good way. You can get beaten a few times, but eventually you may very well devise a way to deal with the enemy. It's the kind of good difficulty - it's hard, but the kind that makes you think and keep you on your toes. The challenging hard.

On the other hand, in Gates to Another World we have armies, and that's just annoying. Yes, I can kill 100 orcs, game! That doesn't mean you must try to have so many enemies in every single battle! It just gets either boring or completely unfair. Just battles of attrition. Same in Mandate of Heaven. A few evil eyes is good, they are interesting enemies. A hundred of them is not. It just gets tedious. And tedious hard is not the kind of hard that is fun. After all, we often tend to play games to get away from tediousness to begin with.

[hellegennes]

That's a nice thing, yes. Although if you master Dark, you can no longer master Light (but not vice versa).

Not really. Nothing keeps you from becoming a master of Dark on day 1 (theoretically). It's just that usually you get to reach Paradise Valley late in the game, when you have already completed most of the quests that boost your karma.

Same in Mandate of Heaven. A few evil eyes is good, they are interesting enemies. A hundred of them is not. It just gets tedious. And tedious hard is not the kind of hard that is fun. After all, we often tend to play games to get away from tediousness to begin with.

True, but you can actually skip these battles simply by outrunning the enemies. For example, you can still get to the interior of Castle Darkmoor without having to fight the surrounding beholders, by entering the crack in the wall. You can also skip the 100-liches fight, all thanks to free-roaming non-turn-based alternative. Sure, you might get hit a few times while running, but you can still avoid a lot of battles this way.

[GreatEmerald]

Not really. Nothing keeps you from becoming a master of Dark on day 1 (theoretically). It's just that usually you get to reach Paradise Valley late in the game, when you have already completed most of the quests that boost your karma.

You can't even learn Dark Magic until you finish some quests IIRC.

True, but you can actually skip these battles simply by outrunning the enemies. For example, you can still get to the interior of Castle Darkmoor without having to fight the surrounding beholders, by entering the crack in the wall. You can also skip the 100-liches fight, all thanks to free-roaming non-turn-based alternative. Sure, you might get hit a few times while running, but you can still avoid a lot of battles this way.

In my view, that doesn't exist. You can't move in MM6 at all in the slightest, unless to run away. I simply refuse to use real-time mode in combat situations, as running past enemies is just cheap.

[Dharcness]

Not really. Nothing keeps you from becoming a master of Dark on day 1 (theoretically). It's just that usually you get to reach Paradise Valley late in the game, when you have already completed most of the quests that boost your karma.

You can't even learn Dark Magic until you finish some quests IIRC.

I thought the requirement was expert 4 points in dark magic and the notorious reputation to achieve master dark magic in MM6 ?