JeffLudwig MM7 Mod

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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the beavers1
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Postby the beavers1 » Jan 7 2013, 3:20

I usually already have good equipment before leaving emerald Isle. form looting the dragon until I get a good artifact or Relic that I can use, then I clear out castle harmondale, then to erathia and tatalia for ores and quests, get more good equipment from the ores sell the rest, then do whatever I feel Like doing from there lol
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Variol
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Postby Variol » Jan 9 2013, 1:05

I have not been able to kill the dragon on the island. I assume you use the wand of fireballs?

I'm currently running with magicians. I went to Avlee at lvl 4 and almost all of the wyverns myself; mostly with fire bolt spells. :)

There really is no difference in game though. Think about it; if you make the monsters tough and increase the weapon/magic powers as well, what have you done; nothing.

It is fun to play again though. :)

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the beavers1
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Postby the beavers1 » Jan 9 2013, 2:22

Its easy to kill the dragon on emerald Isle. I could kill it with bows/magic alone if I wanted to, the wand only speeds up its death. All you need to do is use one of the Wizard Eye scrolls to get expert Wizard Eye on, than run around in circles turning to attack the dragon when It isn't Firing, do this for a while and it should be dead.
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Bandobras Took
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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 9 2013, 15:57

Is it possible that the Ranger class was renamed to Archer? I noticed on the skill sheet that the Ranger column is allowed GM Bow.
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Postby Variol » Jan 11 2013, 2:38

Well, the Archer class is still in the list, so I doubt it.

This mod really need a read me file. I just discovered that the Magician only gets up to Expert Earth Magic! 8|
They also start with Dark Magic, but no spells?? :disagree:

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Bandobras Took
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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 11 2013, 13:52

I've been working from the spreadsheet that's available for download on his site, which does indeed tell you that the Wizard only gets to Expert in Earth Magic, but can Master Mind Magic.

It's also the same spreadsheet that lists the Ranger class as available, so take that for what it's worth. :)

Is the Archer class promoted by the standard Archer quests?
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Postby Variol » Jan 11 2013, 21:15

I would say "yes" to that because you still get the "sabotage" quest.

I took the "light" path, but it seems magicians can not learn light spells???

I'll look for the sheet you're talking about, 'cos this getting really stupid. It would be better if I knew all of the skills for the classes; specially since I always pick 4 of the same.

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Postby Variol » Jan 11 2013, 21:21

Could someone give me the link for the walkthrough, or whatever?

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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 11 2013, 22:20

Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 11 2013, 22:49

I just confirmed by downloading the thing; the Archer in the game is referred to as the Ranger in the spreadsheet. The icon also suggests this, as it combines the boots of the Ranger class with the Bow and Arrow of the Archer class.

Creating an Archer and then editing it in MM7CHE brings up the Ranger class. Creating a Samurai and editing it in MM7CHE brings up the Archer class. Samurai start with spell points; Archers do not. I'll do a runthrough and see if the Archer gets spell points after doing the Ranger promo quest.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 11 2013, 23:03

Confirmed by testing; what the mod calls the Archer class follows the old Ranger promotion line; the class the mod calls Samurai follows the old Archer promotion line.

Also, for what it's worth, uninstall goes smoothly. I don't mind the stat changes, but the graphics and sound changes leave me a bit cold. :)

You can also, I think, just choose to install the exe and events.lod if you don't want the graphic/sound elements.
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Postby Variol » Jan 12 2013, 5:31

Thanks for that!

So, what is the thief now?? Still the same?

Has anyone else noticed that when some creatures die, they slide across the entire map, unless something stops it?

I did find the excel sheet, but it's wider than my 23" monitor! It's not a good way to compare the classes.

My mages just went and killed everything in Celeste at lvl 26. :)

I took the dark side for the 3rd time ever, 'cos I can't have light magic anyway.

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Postby Flodarien » Jan 12 2013, 15:27

I am at a lost to know which stats gives my character more MP. For now, I'll take them as they were analogous to the classes in regular MM7, but it's a bit confusing, now that all classes (beside warrior) get both wizard and cleric magics, even some right off the bat.

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Postby Variol » Jan 15 2013, 1:07

I thought the game was supposed to be harder, but it's even easier than the original. The stuff regenerates too often, so you get too much ore, horse shoes etc.
If the weapons were weaker, instead of stronger, it might be better.

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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 15 2013, 15:45

From the webpage:

The objectives that the mod addresses are, amazingly enough, character development and pacing.


Neither of those has so much to do with making the game harder, it seems to me, as trying to even out the power gaps between the classes and make it so a particular class combo doesn't fall into a "black hole" where they are too weak to actually do any of the quests/areas currently available.
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the beavers1
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Postby the beavers1 » Jan 16 2013, 5:18

yeah I was a little early in saying it seemed harder, At first to me at least, it did seem harder with the goblins and zombies and all, and then I went to the haunted house early in game and that Was really hard at level 9 or 10, but after a little while playing I did find it much easier.
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Postby ludmeister » Jan 16 2013, 14:36

<warning:wall-of-text />

Well, I'm a little late to the discussion, but I'm the one who takes responsibility for this mod. My overarching aim for the mod had nothing to do with the difficulty; it is easier than the original game in some ways and harder in others. I do think it has a more steep learning curve, and thus isn't for first-time players.

My main aim was simply to give people who love Might and Magic combat something to do constantly. In the mod you don't have to worry about running out of monsters to beat up. This has the happy side-effect of making players feel buff when they come back to an area and can crush foes with half as much sweat and effort (something I like).

My secondary aim was to make the classes less cookie-cutter. I understand the original scheme, and I liked it a lot, but again I wanted to allow different strategies for players, hopefully without introducing game-breaking concepts. For instance, it's easy to conceptualize a dark side wizard casting mind-screw spells, hence Mastery in Mind Magic isn't far-fetched.

And yes, I completely recast one class: Archer became Samurai. As I didn't really want to get into the nitty-gritty of quest editing, the quests don't make as much sense for this class anymore.

The Ranger arc is still very much the same, and the class name edits are simply that, simple semantics. It reflects my personal thoughts on the connotations of various classes. To me, "Archer" connotes a uni-dimensional ranged warrior, with no magical capabilities but superior bowmanship (over-against the MM universe, which is the only one I'm aware of that gives the Archer a strong magical dynamic). "Ranger", is both skilled Archer with affinity of natural magics. Now, in MM7, the Ranger arc is hard-coded in the EXE that a first rank Ranger has no magic; in fact the story indicates that Rangers receive magical affinity on their first promotion. So you can see why I felt that initial Rangers should be called Archer (even if this is a slight departure from the Might and Magic nomenclature), and why I still consider the Archer part of the Ranger class arc.

The stats that drive MP are still the same for every class:
Monk, Paladin, and Priest arc- Personality
Thief, Samurai, and Wizard arc- Intellect
Ranger and Druid arc- Personality and Intellect

I still haven't figured out the boat travel bug (admittedly, I haven't played MM7 much recently). I haven't reproduced it yet, but it is a known issue.

I hope this info helps to further the discussion. I'm honored some of you are trying the mod, and hope you enjoy.

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Postby Variol » Jan 19 2013, 10:56

FYI
There is a Guild of Illumination in Erathia now, in place of where the Mind Guild used to be. (put to expert level spells)

I really like the idea of what was attempted with this mod. Like the Thief getting Air, Fire and Mind Magic.

I'm currently using 4 of them.

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Postby Flodarien » Jan 19 2013, 15:39

ludmeister wrote:The Ranger arc is still very much the same, and the class name edits are simply that, simple semantics. It reflects my personal thoughts on the connotations of various classes. To me, "Archer" connotes a uni-dimensional ranged warrior, with no magical capabilities but superior bowmanship (over-against the MM universe, which is the only one I'm aware of that gives the Archer a strong magical dynamic). "Ranger", is both skilled Archer with affinity of natural magics. Now, in MM7, the Ranger arc is hard-coded in the EXE that a first rank Ranger has no magic; in fact the story indicates that Rangers receive magical affinity on their first promotion. So you can see why I felt that initial Rangers should be called Archer (even if this is a slight departure from the Might and Magic nomenclature), and why I still consider the Archer part of the Ranger class arc.


This raises another question. Why give classes that have no magical attributes, in their first class, the ability to learn about magic skills. If you could not give them MP, I would have suggested doing like the original game, and only give them access to Magic skills after promotion. That would make more sense.

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Postby Variol » Jan 22 2013, 9:56

The game started crashing, to the point where I uninstalled it last night. It would crash when I clicked on an object in the inventory.


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