The Kreegan

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).
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Unread postby MMXAlamar » 29 Jul 2012, 02:29

Their mission was to conquer and destroy the world of Enroth, and they failed. Xeron and Lucifer picked up where Xenofex left off, and they were defeated. Escaton arrived afterwards to destroy the world, though the Kreegan had been heavily beaten following the fall of their capitol in Eeofol. There were no Kreegan on Jadame that we know of, but perhaps some sailed to Karigor. They would have to conquer each land as part of their ultimate mission. Escaton's presence in Jadame, ready to destroy Enroth suggests the Kreegan would have either conquered Enroth and remained there, or left the planet following it's destruction. These are some of the facts and some speculations that I believe are true.

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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 29 Jul 2012, 06:25

Well, from HoMM4 we see that they don't destroy planets, just turn them into wastelands.

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Unread postby Avonu » 29 Jul 2012, 06:36

They indeed don't destroy worlds, they "eat" them - use all resources of planet to breed and increase their numbers (and in process kill planet inhabitants) and next go to other planet.
The Kreegan infest our worlds and spread if they can.
"I am Melian, Guardian of Enroth. Thank you for replacing my memory modules. Archibald took them from here when I refused to give him any help in his battle for succession. Your timing is impeccable. The Kreegan have invaded our world, and you must try and stop them. Unfortunately, Archibald’s attempts at extracting information from me have damaged me enough that I cannot help you directly now. Instead, I can only give you advice.

While most of the Kreegan can be slain with ordinary weapons and spells, the elite guards and upper echelon breeders have tougher skin and natural defenses that protect them from anything but very powerful weapons. In the planetary control center beneath me are the weapons and armor you will need to survive battle with the enemy. My orders, however, will only permit passage to someone with a Control Cube. My instruments tell me that the only Control Cube left in Enroth can be found somewhere underground in Dragonsand."
"As I said, the Kreegan are resistant to most of the weapons available in Enroth, but not all. To rid the world of them, you will need to find where their vessel crashed and destroy the main reactor. The only problem is that the resulting explosions from the reactor will destroy this planet. You will need a powerful spell to prevent the explosion from damaging the planet, but no spell like that exists in the world today. The only person I can think of that would know of such a spell is Archibald, but he is in no condition to teach you. To make matters worse, the reactor cannot be harmed by normal weapons or spells – you will need the ancient weapons in the Control Center to destroy the reactor."
"Though my memory has been damaged by Archibald, I can still remember the danger that our ancient enemy, the Kreegan, pose to our world. The Kreegan first appeared roughly 1500 years ago, attacking outlying colonies and stealing their resources. It was thought at the time they simply needed certain minerals, and could be reasoned with, but this was not the case. Their life cycle forces them to breed until the world cannot support their numbers, then they send ships off to other worlds to renew the cycle. Their attacks against the empire of the Ancients disrupted the network of shipping and communications that held us all together, causing the Silence that marks the first year of our modern calendar. Without support from the homeworlds, our fledgling technology failed, bringing us to this sorry state. I would help rebuild our technology, but I seem to have become a religious figure in the minds of many people, and very few visit me or understand what I have to offer. Perhaps this Kreegan crisis we face will bring people to their senses--as long as we survive it."
The Kreegan didn't sail to Karigor or they weren't present on Jadame. There were no more Kreegan after AB.
he Kreegan infestation of our world was eliminated.
As Escaton said:
I am aware that the king and queen of Enroth have rid your world of Kreegans. Still your world is to destroyed. Once, I am called, I must perform the Convocation. Once the Convocation is begun, it must continue.

I was called while Kreegan still lived on your world. It matters not that they were dust by the time I arrived.

Few more texts about the Kreegan in general from MM6:
Devils
"Most of the devils you see in Pleasant Valley are in fact worker or soldier devils. They are organized like ants, only they have intelligent leaders. The leaders can fly, and their best leaders can use human speech and writing."
Devils
The devils seem to prefer fire attacks and enjoy attacking in large groups. Some of the most powerful can cast spells from the fire school.
The Blight
"The western province of Pleasant Valley has undergone a shocking transformation in the last few years. Once it was a rich, fertile farming region. Now all the plants have died from a terrible blight, and the water has dried up. All the animals sickened or died, and all the people had to move away to find food to eat."
And few texts for XEL:
Battle of Edenbrook
The village of Edenbrook wouldn't be around these days if it weren't for King Roland and his men. They saved it from a horde of devils a little while back.
Sweet Water Pass
"Though powerful, the devils are far from invincible. King Roland fought and won a battle at Sweet Water Pass by outmaneuvering them and outthinking them. They're tough, but they die like anything else does when you put a sword through it!"
Battle at Kriegspire
"When the king fled to Castle Kriegspire he was followed by an enormous army of devils. A couple of days later a few dozen devils were seen leaving the old volcano the castle occupies, but the King himself hasn't been seen since."
Devils and Baa
"Some people are saying the Temple of Baa and the devils are in league! It makes sense– the temple first appeared a few months after the Night of Shooting Stars, and we all know the devils and that night are related!"

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Unread postby XEL II » 29 Jul 2012, 13:29

Avonu wrote:
Battle of Edenbrook
The village of Edenbrook wouldn't be around these days if it weren't for King Roland and his men. They saved it from a horde of devils a little while back.
Sweet Water Pass
"Though powerful, the devils are far from invincible. King Roland fought and won a battle at Sweet Water Pass by outmaneuvering them and outthinking them. They're tough, but they die like anything else does when you put a sword through it!"
Well, there you have it. Cross-reference it with the information straight from Roland's letters. The second battle was against the remaining devils who fled Roland's forces after he defeated them at Edenbrook. Then, it was reported that the reinforcements for them are coming, and Roland fled east to Kriegspire.

And the Temple of Baa indeed appeared even before Roland's quest. A few months after the Night of Shooting Stars, as well as Suleman already being part of Baa by the time Roland set of to the west. The goal of Baa was uprooting the kingdom of Enroth as the only one housing means to defeat the Kreegan invasion (one of their primary targets were Memory Crystals, for instance) and generally being a powerful nation.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Unread postby XEL II » 29 Jul 2012, 13:36

In the case of the Kreegan, "destroy" and "eat/infest" are indeed synonymous. The planets their conquer are ravaged wasteland, barely lifeless and ruined. That is what we see on planets like Fiery Realm and Fiery Moon (if they aren't one and the same, which I think they are).
MMXAlamar wrote:Their mission was to conquer and destroy the world of Enroth, and they failed. Xeron and Lucifer picked up where Xenofex left off, and they were defeated. Escaton arrived afterwards to destroy the world, though the Kreegan had been heavily beaten following the fall of their capitol in Eeofol. There were no Kreegan on Jadame that we know of, but perhaps some sailed to Karigor. They would have to conquer each land as part of their ultimate mission. Escaton's presence in Jadame, ready to destroy Enroth suggests the Kreegan would have either conquered Enroth and remained there, or left the planet following it's destruction. These are some of the facts and some speculations that I believe are true.
Almost all remaining Kreegans have been exterminated when Eeofol fell to Erathia at the end of the Demon Wars in AB. There barely remained a couple dozens of them. Te survivors fled to the Fiery Realm, a Kreegan-infested planet, in the Reckoning. Following Gauldoth's venture into that world, some Kreegans (including refugees from Enroth, like Calh) have managed to slip into Axeoth, where they later threatened to start a civil war in Nekros.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Unread postby Avonu » 29 Jul 2012, 14:01

XEL II wrote:A few months after the Night of Shooting Stars, as well as Suleman already being part of Baa by the time Roland set of to the west.
No one said, that Suleman was member of Baa during Roland crusade. He could easly be promoted to one of it leaders (I assume he was high in Baa ranks) as a reward for his aid for Kreegan during Roland crusade, when Temple of Baa was created.
There is no text which would suggest one way or another.
Roland started his crusade not long ago after the Kreegan landed on Enroth (according to his letters where devils are still just a rumour and messages from Sweet Water stop coming not so long ago) and Temple of Baa is said to be create few momenths after Night of the Shooting Stars.
XEL II wrote:The second battle was against the remaining devils who fled Roland's forces after he defeated them at Edenbrook. Then, it was reported that the reinforcements for them are coming, and Roland fled east to Kriegspire.
Not really. Roland's scouts reached Sweet Water and saw full numbers of Kreegan but it was after Battle of Sweet Water Pass. He chased Kreegan from Edenbrook nearly to their headquater in Hive before he was forced to retreat after hearing reports about devils true strength.

BTW - 25 000 army was enough according to Roland to wipe up all the Kreegan, so their numbers indeed were small (but still in thousands) after crossing the Void (as text from Tomb of VARN said).

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Unread postby Tress » 29 Jul 2012, 14:19

The Kreegan didn't sail to Karigor or they weren't present on Jadame. There were no more Kreegan after AB.

Quote:
he Kreegan infestation of our world was eliminated.
Well no Kreegan at all and no infestation is not necessary same thing. Considering there is a lot of demon heroes left in rooster of Homm 4. I would much rather believe that Estacon deemed that with no queens/reactors and other serious infrastructure left demons are not threat anymore, even if some of them survived. Besides it is hardly possible to elliminate 100% of species. There will always be some hole in ground where some demon is hiding.

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Unread postby Avonu » 29 Jul 2012, 15:56

tress wrote:Besides it is hardly possible to elliminate 100% of species. There will always be some hole in ground where some demon is hiding.
There is a way :D and Escaton was this way. ;)
But if even he said that they were dust by the time he arrived, then you should belive him.

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Unread postby Tress » 29 Jul 2012, 16:16

Avonu wrote:
tress wrote:Besides it is hardly possible to elliminate 100% of species. There will always be some hole in ground where some demon is hiding.
There is a way :D and Escaton was this way. ;)
But if even he said that they were dust by the time he arrived, then you should belive him.

Yea except that I guess, still I meant without means of mass destruction.
On topic - how can I believe him if there still is Kreegans present in Homm4 along with heroes background that suggest they survived events of AB and reckoning. Besides his statement might just as well be interpreted that Kreegans are no longer threat. 3 Heroes and 5 kreegans arnt exactly planet destroying material.

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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 29 Jul 2012, 21:05

XEL II wrote:In the case of the Kreegan, "destroy" and "eat/infest" are indeed synonymous. The planets their conquer are ravaged wasteland, barely lifeless and ruined.
Well, at least they don't blow the planets up, like a certain someone.

That said, it makes me wonder what happens to the elemental planes connected to Kreegan-infested planets...

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Unread postby XEL II » 30 Jul 2012, 00:20

GreatEmerald wrote: Well, at least they don't blow the planets up, like a certain someone.
But even Escaton doesn't always just blow planets up, like in the case of Enroth.
GreatEmerald wrote:That said, it makes me wonder what happens to the elemental planes connected to Kreegan-infested planets...
Nothing, the Planes are alternate dimensions of sorts, they are connected to the corporeal universe as a whole, not separately to different planets.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Unread postby Tress » 30 Jul 2012, 19:25

Nothing, the Planes are alternate dimensions of sorts, they are connected to the corporeal universe as a whole, not separately to different planets.
That said, we can ask why they aren't invaded yet by kreegan from any plane connected. Well can always assume they don't contain needed resources(whatever they are after).
Also while not elaborated, I doubt (for example) that air plane in xeen is same as one in Jadame. If that would be true then gate network and interstellar ships would be obsolete, as planeswalkers would just make them redundant.

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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 30 Jul 2012, 19:47

Well, in all of the planes you see the same Gralkor, Shalwend, etc. so they are probably the same. But perhaps you can only exit where you entered (which makes sense, sleep and you get teleported back where you started, and not somewhere else). Though it still makes me wonder how landmasses were created, if it was due to elemental wars. Were all of the landmasses everywhere created simultaneously? Since otherwise I don't see how the elemental war can play out the same way every time (water elementals can't reinvent fire elementals, after all).

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Unread postby XEL II » 30 Jul 2012, 22:00

Actually, "all the landmasses" weren't created by the Elementals. Enroth was created by the four Elemental Lords, Land of Cron was also made by Elementals, and the Ancients used the Elementals during the creation of the VARNs intended for Terra (and seemingly some other experiments). But not all planets in the universe are made by the Elementals.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Unread postby Slayer of Cliffracers » 31 Jul 2012, 13:06

GreatEmerald wrote: I used to skip over your posts as well because, as noted before, they are mostly speculation without anything in canon backing it up. But at least you're stubborn enough to continue, so perhaps, with a bit of practise, you can separate speculation from facts after all. See, there is a lot of things that we don't know about the Might and Magic universe, and while we can draw some new conclusions from what we already know, you often go too far with some of those. Of course, long posts are not helping, either, as discussing that gets difficult with all the quotes and requotes.

Anyway, looking exclusively at your last post, here are the things that I noticed:
I am at least a bit undisciplined in the way I write. It's more like I start with a statement based upon the 'facts' and then I add more and more stuff that only makes sense if one agrees with the whole previous train of thought.
GreatEmerald wrote:Colony Zod was not a hive, there was no queen there..
A mature queen perhaps. Do we fight baby Kreegans in Might and Magic VII? Doubt it. There was no functional queen in Colony Zod that the player faces, but that's about it.
GreatEmerald wrote: While we can't say for certain that there were no other Kreegan outposts of the planet (we don't know how many ships they sent to the planet of Enroth), I would generally agree with you here.
Well we sort of know. The answer is 1. The Kreegan ship is depicted as like an asteroid and it arrives in the vicinity of Sweet Water in Enroth (although by the looks of it, it is probably can't have landed that close!). More Kreegan ships are not proven to arrived, one doesn't have to prove a negative and all that.
GreatEmerald wrote: And here we go into the uncertain territory. How would you define the "Inferno faction"? By gameplay mechanics? It doesn't work that way. From all I've seen, CotU Inferno (demons) have nothing in common with the Kreegan, except for the town appearance and the use of the word "demon". As for Kreegan ally motivation, it's now in pure speculation territory - we just don't know that. It could be as you said; it could just as well have been that they used a gadget to brainwash them; it could have been that their allies liked their appearance; it could have been that they were mind controlled by an unknown species. We just don't have the information to draw any conclusions here, and in this case it's better off not to draw any. You can explain your theory, but it's not canon, and anyone is free to speculate - as long as things are labelled as such, and not as facts.
I define the Inferno faction as the faction that fields the following units, Imps/Familiars,Gogs/Magogs,Demons/Horned Demons/Efreeti/Efreeti Sultans,Hellhounds/Cerberi,Pit Fiends/Pit Lords,Devils/Archdevils.

Yes perhaps that's gameplay mechanics but then everything else, text, videos, artwork and so on are also gameplay mechanics. I do agree that gameplay mechanics are not to be take literally but I don't agree that there are not a source of canonical information about the world.

I am arguing that the Inferno faction as encountered in Heroes III, while under the control of the Kreegans don't actually field Kreegans on the battlefield. That is where Conquest of the Underworld is so important, it provides an insight into the nature of the Inferno faction in isolation to the Kreegans. It proves that these are extra-planer beings from another world, called the 'Underworld' and that they already existed as an organised power before the Kreegans ever arrived. What this means incidentally is that they likely have an equally organised reason for allying with and 'serving' the Kreegans.
GreatEmerald wrote: Once again, speculation built on the previous speculation. Plus, why would the allies of the Kreegan want to destroy the world? No, that's the Kreegan agenda. At this point, my "brainwashing" speculation seems more likely!
No I would call it theorising not speculation. It is an attempt to make sense OF definate canonical events based upon other canonical events rather being an 'expansion' of the story into new territory. The event that I am trying to make sense is Armageddon's Blade.

The Kreegans do not want to destroy the world, we know that. They are biological beings that seek to consume resources and multiply until they have rendered the world uninhabitable even to themselves at which point they move on to another world. They ruin worlds without actually seeking intentionally to do so.

The Inferno faction however is extra-planer, having an interest in stealing souls and such. We know that someone wants the world destroyed, we know that those who want to destroy the world are part of the Kreegan faction, and we also know that the kreegans don't want to destroy the world. So who does?

The simple solution that makes sense, the Inferno faction creatures wish to destroy the Ancients worlds (and were likely created by the Creators) and the kreegans would eventually realise this outcome eventually but not by their design (but it is the Creators design). So why not kill two birds with one stone, they value an alliance with the Kreegans for the same reason that they would also value Armageddon's Blade.
GreatEmerald wrote: And here we come up to a point where you have speculation based on speculation based on speculation based on personal interpretation. Which, in my view, is completely false. The Fiery Realm is a planet conquered by the Kreegan. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, to suggest that their allies are involved. And the Underworld is not related, it's just a random cave with random demons. Again, there is no canonical source to suggest otherwise. Your guess is just as good any anyone else's - or worse, as it's based on a lot of speculation.
You obviously aren't joining up any of the dots. The Fiery Realm is not 'just' a planet for the following reasons.

1. Gauldoth and his army travel there by creating a magical portal through destroying an object.
2. Kalibarr also ended up there through using a spell.
3. The Kreegans also fled there (not that I think they are actually kreegans by that point but that's another story)
4. It is canonically stated as the place from which the demons 'get their power'.

If you can just open a portal with a spell to travel around the universe, why then does anyone bother with spaceships? It should be obvious that the place is now extra-planer in some sense even if it was originally an ordinery planet before it fell under the 'dominion of the kreegans'.

There is also the small matter of the actual terrain. It is very, very molten, basically it is a set of small islands connected by magical portals. And what we know of demons, is that they like volcanos and actually create them as part of the process of arriving.

Image

So while the Fiery Realm is now a Kreegan hell, a few small cramped islands surrounded by lava with no visible resources, it is also a heaven for the creatures that inhabit the Inferno faction. They like lava, the more the better and demonic creatures live there in great numbers. But why?
GreatEmerald wrote: Right, and what you call "speculation" we call "fan fiction" - this is not only based on a lot of speculation, but some of it is just taken out of thin air. From the canonical facts, we know that the Ancients created nacelles by manipulating elemental planes and keeping peace between them. Most likely the same is with planets - most likely, this is just an educated conclusion, which might not necessarily be true. And we also know that the Creators created the Kreegan and they are at war with the Ancients. That's canon. We don't know where either of them are, what are their major capabilities. The Ancients are described as being a supercivilization, but even then we don't know what that actually means. It obviously includes technology. It most likely includes magic. Once again, an educated conclusion, that might not be true, but something that most people would agree with seeing as there are many magic users on every world seeded by the Ancients. Anything else is speculation at best. Not once were planes of "reality" or "anti-reality" mentioned - it was your idea, made without any basis in canonical facts, therefore it's fan fiction.
It's not Fan-Fiction because I have not created a custom scenerio or a unofficial game mod based upon my theories. It is speculation, as any concrete theories about the Ancients almost must be.

What we know is that the Ancients rely upon the Elemental planes to provide the materials for their works. This is interesting because as we see Heroes Chronicles: Master of the Elements, the Elementals can cause a great deal of trouble.

The Creators are sort of known to be extra-planer, they exist in a nebulous realm (which means that it is shapeless and formless). They create armies of chaotic creatures to attack the Ancients worlds. I speculate that both demons and kreegans are such chaotic creatures.
GreatEmerald wrote: And this is fan-fiction based on fan-fiction, that contradicts the canon, even. We have Magma elementals in HoMM3, and they are related to Earth elementals.
I said that the demons have an affinity to magma, because it approximates the substance of their realm, not that magma was their realm! Yes there are magma elementals and the Ancients do make use OF magma as part of their worlds. But magma as it is made use of by the Ancients is deliberately impure. The Fire, Earth, Water and Air elements are not 'in balance'; so magma as in exists in Reality is essentially an impure form of earth not the pure fusion of all elements which it is in the Creators 'Anti-Reality' realm. As result of this impurity, magma solidifies into rock; while in the Fiery Realm this is obviously not the case (much).

However the demons, both on Enroth and Ashan do have an obvious affinity for magma and lava. This does not as I said mean that magma is 'demonic' only that through magma they are able to access the power of their home realm because it is similar to magma.
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Unread postby tolich » 31 Jul 2012, 13:24

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Do we fight baby Kreegans in Might and Magic VII?
We do in MM VI. It's a Devil Spawn:
Image

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Unread postby Slayer of Cliffracers » 31 Jul 2012, 13:27

tolich wrote:We do in MM VI. It's a Devil Spawn:
Image
Simple then. One of the Devil Spawns the player killed was the soon to be queen of the Kreegans.
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Unread postby BoardGuest808888 » 01 Aug 2012, 11:37

tress wrote: On topic - how can I believe him if there still is Kreegans present in Homm4 along with heroes background that suggest they survived events of AB and reckoning. Besides his statement might just as well be interpreted that Kreegans are no longer threat. 3 Heroes and 5 kreegans arnt exactly planet destroying material.
They might not be there in Antagarich anymore. In Axeoth the be present, but they didn't come from Antagarich neither.
tress wrote:
That said, we can ask why they aren't invaded yet by kreegan from any plane connected. Well can always assume they don't contain needed resources(whatever they are after).
Also while not elaborated, I doubt (for example) that air plane in xeen is same as one in Jadame. If that would be true then gate network and interstellar ships would be obsolete, as planeswalkers would just make them redundant.
Me guess that be cause the elemental planes were better defended by their inhabitants. At least from the Kreegans' point of view. Even in Enroth, we got just how many kingdoms, guilds, etc. In elemental planes the people seems to be better united. Someone with Escaton's power might take advantage of this, but the Kreegans' might not up to the challenge. :-D

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Unread postby BoardGuest808888 » 01 Aug 2012, 11:59

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote: etc..

If you can just open a portal with a spell to travel around the universe, why then does anyone bother with spaceships? It should be obvious that the place is now extra-planer in some sense even if it was originally an ordinery planet before it fell under the 'dominion of the kreegans'. etc..
Now, this be what I think the crux of the problem here. I'm not real sure here, but I guess the both be actually same. What was known to us as spaceships were known by M & M and HoMM people as "dimension-gate spell".

Remember that these people were basically a civilization who descend into, like, a medieval world while actually living in a very advanced setting. They might use the term "spell", "devil" and "lightning bolt" for what we know perhaps as spaceship, alien and ion cannon.

Even the power they got from the Fiery Realm wasn't clear what. I guess those are material and resources like uranium or oil or other kind of mineral.

I tend to agree with GreatEmerald here, it was just another Kreegans' conquest, not anything special place.

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Unread postby Slayer of Cliffracers » 01 Aug 2012, 15:56

BoardGuest808888 wrote: Now, this be what I think the crux of the problem here. I'm not real sure here, but I guess the both be actually same. What was known to us as spaceships were known by M & M and HoMM people as "dimension-gate spell".

Remember that these people were basically a civilization who descend into, like, a medieval world while actually living in a very advanced setting. They might use the term "spell", "devil" and "lightning bolt" for what we know perhaps as spaceship, alien and ion cannon.

Even the power they got from the Fiery Realm wasn't clear what. I guess those are material and resources like uranium or oil or other kind of mineral.

I tend to agree with GreatEmerald here, it was just another Kreegans' conquest, not anything special place.
Here's the quote from the Death Campaign that points out what I am talking about.

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The power we are talking about is something ethereal that demons are constantly drawing from an another 'realm', it is not some kind of material resource but something which which they are in constant contact (the best technological analogy is radio waves). It is because of this contact that Gauldoth is able to travel to the Fiery Realm.

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So can we not see the obvious conclusion to arrive at. Planets that have fallen under the Kreegan domination evidently end up proving power to the demons, a power that radiates through the universe and can be used by powerful sorcerers to travel back to the source of that power.

If Kreegan worlds end up providing power to demons after the Kreegans have finished wrecking them; then why am I not correct to assert that we can understand the reason why the demons help the Kreegans as rooted in the way that Kreegan worlds end up as 'Fiery Realms' providing the power that fuels the powers of demonkind universally?

OR ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE CLEAR CANONICAL EVIDENCE THAT THE DEMONS ARE POWERED BY WORLDS THAT FELL UNDER THE RULE OF THE KREEGAN!


To the other question, the whole technology and magic thing. Well that's just silly. We know that magic is magic and not technology precisely because magic does appear to depend upon material resources for it's powers as it depicted in any of the games. It depends upon mana, which is an immaterial substance of some sort which is found in varying amounts in different beings depending upon their 'magicalness'.

Indeed advanced technology is kind of Might rather than Magic. Laser cannons and spaceships would be considered really advanced forms of bows and sailing ships. Might and Magic are usually distinguished from eachother and in some games actually competing power forms.

If Magic was Laser Weaponry then it would sort of be Magic IS Might rather than Might AND Magic. There are both magical lightning bolts and laser beams in the Might and Magic universe, the former isn't the latter.
Working on tracking the locations of Heroes IV battles. Stage 6 of campaign map finished, all initial Heroes IV campaigns mapped.

http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/ ... hp?t=11973


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