Facts from Dreamwright

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Avonu
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Postby Avonu » Dec 13 2011, 19:25

I don't think that stacking Varns one on another is the way in what they were carry on.
Sheltem landed on VARN 4 because it was the closest ship to him and yet he launched VARN6 into sun.

...I will be forced to land on VARN 4 of the CRON vechcle...


If VARN4 was the closest to him, it should be on top but if he launched VARN6, it suggest that ship was on top.
Also MM3 manual mention that Varns carried by Shikbath Zera were once a one land (read: stacked on one level) and they broken up only when they were landing on Terra.

Well, it's all speculations, no one seems to know how these vechicle look like.



BTW - anyone knows on which city look of Thojgard from MM9 was based? Lindisfarne is obvious, Guberland is based on Trelleborg Ring Fortress on Zealand but rest of Chedian cities?

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 13 2011, 19:31

Avonu wrote:I don't think that stacking Varns one on another is the way in what they were carry on.
Sheltem landed on VARN 4 because it was ship the closest to him and yet he launched VARN6 into sun.
...I will be forced to land on VARN 4 of the CRON vechcle...


If VARN4 was the closest to him, it should be on top but if he launched VARN6, it suggest that ship was on top.


That doesn't exactly contradict our theory, since we don't know how their numbering system works. It could be that VARN4 was in the middle and at the top of the CRON, with CRON having a landing hatch there, while VARN6 is at the end and at the top or the centre of the CRON, where the main bay doors would logically be. So it would be easiest to land on VARN4, since the hatch for small shuttles is near it, and it would be easiest to launch VARN6, since it's the closest to the bay doors.

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Postby Avonu » Dec 13 2011, 19:34

I still think that "star base" desing is more logical then "Enterprise nascelle".


*Hitting head in the wall*
Anyone has "Botany Bay" blueprints from "Space Seed" episode of Star Trek TOS?

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 13 2011, 19:52

Avonu wrote:I still think that "star base" desing is more logical then "Enterprise nascelle".


*Hitting head in the wall*
Anyone has "Botany Bay" blueprints from "Space Seed" episode of Star Trek TOS?


It would be more eye-(mind-?)pleasing to think otherwise, but the nacelle theory explains why MM2 world is *exactly* as big as the MM1 world and follows the official word better.

Quoting ST: ENT: Botany bay? It's merely a myth! A legend!
:D

EDIT: Actually, I remembered another possible problem... The MM2 manual et al. talk about "the land of CRON", not "the land of VARN1". Would it be possible that a CRON is both the encompassing carrier structure and VARN1 at the same time? Would be something like the "Enroth" situation...
Last edited by GreatEmerald on Dec 13 2011, 19:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby MMXAlamar » Dec 13 2011, 19:57

You'll never know how many VARNs fit inside a CRON, so playing the numbers game with VARNs 1,2,3,4,5,6 isn't a good idea. But we can speculate on possible designs of how the VARNs were arranged.

We could have numerous different designs. Stacks of VARNs, VARNs side-by-side, VARN's wrapped around a central pillar, or even VARNs arranged on the outside of the cylinder, etc.

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Postby Avonu » Dec 13 2011, 19:58

Cron is nearly as big as Terra (which each larger island should be separate Varn according to lore). :P

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 13 2011, 20:00

MMXAlamar wrote:We could have numerous different designs. Stacks of VARNs, VARNs side-by-side, VARN's wrapped around a central pillar, or even VARNs arranged on the outside of the cylinder, etc.


It wouldn't explain the "several levels" part of the quote if they were outside, though. Not that several designs of CRONs overall aren't possible, of course.

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Postby Corlagon » Dec 13 2011, 20:03

EDIT: Actually, I remembered another possible problem... The MM2 manual et al. talk about "the land of CRON", not "the land of VARN1". Would it be possible that a CRON is both the encompassing carrier structure and VARN1 at the same time?


What an overcomplication that would be. Really, based on MM5's retroactive facts, I think it's just a misnomer. The Data Keeper in MM1 and Corak in MM5 both refer to this land as being just another VARN in the Vehicle.

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Postby MMXAlamar » Dec 13 2011, 20:07

Yeah, I think that most of the stuff in M&M wasn't fully thought out. Especially the older games, which JVC practically made himself. If anyone knows the truth, it's probably just him.

Avonu wrote:BTW - anyone knows on which city look of Thojgard from MM9 was based? Lindisfarne is obvious, Guberland is based on Trelleborg Ring Fortress on Zealand but rest of Chedian cities?


Tim Lang wrote:There was no specific cities in mind that anything was especially based on. Thjorgard was essentially supposed to look like a wealthy Nordic city with lots of half-timbered architecture.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 13 2011, 20:12

Corlagon wrote:What an overcomplication that would be. Really, based on MM5's retroactive facts, I think it's just a misnomer. The Data Keeper in MM1 and Corak in MM5 both refer to this land as being just another VARN in the Vehicle.


You can't just disregard the official word, misnomer or not. And I don't see that as much of a complication, after all, saying "the land of CRON" is faster and as clear to say as "the land of VARN1 of CRON".

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Postby Corlagon » Dec 13 2011, 20:26

What am I disregarding? aside from what I quoted at you two years ago, where two characters all but tell us outright that it is a misnomer since it's a VARN, there's no official word saying this or that about what it is. It could be VARN 1 or it could be VARN 96777. Jon only knows. :P

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Postby MMXAlamar » Dec 13 2011, 20:36

Doesn't the first VARN from MM1 have a strange number attached to it?

Also to elaborate, I hope we are all clear on the fact that the LAND of Cron is not the same thing as a CRON. The Land of Cron is most likely a VARN, but it just happens to have the name "Cron," meaning it's named after the entire ship itself.

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Postby Corlagon » Dec 13 2011, 20:40

That's correct, yes.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 13 2011, 20:46

See, now that's confusing :P So the "land of CRON" is VARN1, while just "CRON" is the whole CRON structure? I guess it would work, but then again, it's rather confusing.

As for the strange number, one can assume that it's the serial number of the VARN. It shows which VARN it is since the start of the production, much like "NCC-1701". Small numbers, like 4 and 6, most probably mean the relative number in regards to the CRON that is carrying said VARNs. Like the docking bay number.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 15 2011, 21:27

Back to the original topic - the talisman that all Guardians had is the staff of the Blue Light, right? Sounds something like the Cube of Power/Control Cube.

Also, I just finished the Dreamwright now. Haven't started the Shadowsmith yet, though. Got to say, the hatchling guy is an interesting fellow... He looks to be a cyborg or an extremely advanced android right now. I wonder if that means that he's an agent of the Ancients, but I bet I'll find that one out in the Shadowsmith as well.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 31 2011, 12:54

So I'm reading through the Shadowsmith now. Apparently, Jassad Attqua is a descendant of the Ancients, and a human. Anyway, this part of his speech is highly interesting:
Jatt raised his hand against the tide of speculation. "I'm not from a sea, and I'm not from your moon—the big or the little. I'm from my own world, whose name is Lune, a world spinning so far away from here that it looks to a dif­ferent sun entirely for its daylight. Lune is one small part of a great confederation of nation-worlds which we call the Arc, and it was to serve the Arc that I was sent here."

"Why would a great empire like your Arc send you down to splash about in one of our cold lakes?" Varve asked. "Don't you have lakes of your own?"

"Actually, no—not on Lune itself," the hatchling admit­ted, "though on many of the other worlds. But I was sent here to investigate reports of unexplained phenomena— abilities no other human culture exhibits and a level of technology completely at odds with your stage of societal development. Unoccupied ships had been sent before, as well as a couple of investigators who were never heard from after they landed. The questions raised by your world seemed important enough to try again." He paused, his forehead creasing as if he had just remembered something and wished he hadn't. "Besides, we're teetering on the brink of our own war out there, and some thought your strangeness might yield a weapon to be pressed into service for the Arc. Another group of worlds called Bright Star was also planning to send investigators, probably for the same reasons, though whether their ship ever arrived at your planet and did so in better shape than mine, I cannot say. Bright Star and the Arc are fierce rivals in most matters, and information is not exchanged freely between the two confederations. I've been gone for some time. Perhaps by now there is open warfare between the two." His expres­sion showed regret. "There are many worlds of people, you know, all different yet all descended, so we believe, from a single far-faring race that roamed the emptiness a very long time ago."

"The Ancients, that would be," Hitch said. "With their floating flower seeds, their Wire, and their Guardians."


The hatchling's gaze grew cloudy for a moment. Then he nodded. "I recall it now. So much of what I experienced while the Reference minded my body is still locked deep inside, brought to the surface only when I know to look for it." He lifted his hand to the side of his head in an uncon­scious gesture of frustration. "I do recall the incident now. Amonwelle was speaking of the original colonization. But why is it remembered after so many thousands of years on a world where so much else seems to have been lost?"


This reveals that:
  • Dreamwright/Shadowsmith takes place on a planet with two moons. Do we know how many moons Axeoth has?
  • Jassad Attqua is from the Arc, who are flighting the Bright Star. They are both descendants of the Ancients, and have a rivalry like between Vulcans and Romulans.
  • The Ancients are referred to as extinct altogether.
  • The time after the Silence is said to be many thousands of years on that planet. On Enroth, all the action took place no longer than 2 thousand years AS. On Axeoth, unless some of the continents were already populated, everything took place only a few hundred years after the Reckoning. That would mean that Axeoth and the Dreamwright planet are different and the events take place a long time after anything shown in the games.

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Postby Avonu » Dec 31 2011, 13:46

GreatEmerald wrote:[*]The time after the Silence is said to be many thousands of years on that planet. On Enroth, all the action took place no longer than 2 thousand years AS. On Axeoth, unless some of the continents were already populated, everything took place only a few hundred years after the Reckoning. That would mean that Axeoth and the Dreamwright planet are different and the events take place a long time after anything shown in the games.


1. I don't remember night sky form MM9 at this moment but if it has moon on it, it was only one. I need to check it in free time.

2. Enroth was destroyed ca. 1175 AS - so it is one thousand years after Silence, not two.

3. Action in MM9 and HIV takes place on Axeoth right after Reckoning (+5-10 years in case of HIV campaigns), not few hundreds years later. Axeoth timeline is based on Great Cataclism - it is 521 AC at start of MM9 and Great Cataclism is not the same event as Silence
It seems logical, that Silence started on every Ancients' planet in same time, so it would be year ca. -700 BC when Silence begun on Axeoth.

Oh, one more thing, the Ancients were in past on Axoeth and they fought with the Kreegan there but in time of MM9 some of them returned, althrough they never personal appeared in game.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 31 2011, 14:26

Well yes, I didn't want to go into detail there, my point is that the action definitely doesn't span "many thousands of years" on any of the known planets in the timeline of any games. So it would seem to be an entirely different planet far into the future, and not Axeoth around the time of HoMM4.

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Postby Corlagon » Dec 31 2011, 14:45

Oh no, I most certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility that it's Axeoth. I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the Geary Gravel novels for every detail - scrutinise the MM9 texts and you could quite easily find ways to make it work seamlessly, if you wanted to.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 31 2011, 15:22

Care to share that information? :)


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