MM9 - what you don't like and what you like in it

[Avonu]

There are no Arcomage in MM1-6, so why does it matter?

Because it was introduced in MM7 and was still in MM8. Arcomage IS a very nice and addictive mini-game and removing it from MM9 was a very bad idea.
I don't care much about lack of it in MM1-6 becuase this feature was intoduce AFTER these games.
Same with banks - I miss that how they generated income from your deposits in MM3-5.

No Alchemy

The same. (edit: but MM6, of course )

The same as above.

in MM7-8 you can buy goods and sell them with profit.

You can buy goods and sell them with profit (in the same place) if you have high level of Master Merchant.

It is not about earning money for me. It's about helping people of Antagarich and Jadame to making their goods. As you remeber Iron Sand from one place enables to produce bottles for other NPC and these bottles enable to make vine.
A little role-playing as a merchant and helping people grow their enterprises is also a fun for me.
In MM9 we have only one qust of this kind IIRC - find buyer for Frosgard's beer.

Spell system - nofly, invisibility, armageddon and other spells we used in MM6-8. On the other hand, we get chain lightning and pillar of fire which are nice.

I like that, you cannot cheat land monsters with carpet bombing anymore.

And you can't avoid fight if you don't want (well, there is always running). Novadays no game allow you to avoid fight if you don't want as far as I remember, which IMO is bad thing.

NPCs are not killable.

Nearly no hireable NPCs (and general not nough NPCs).

The number of hirelings is high enough. Moreover, fired hireling returns to place where he was hired.

One of each kind which is not enough. In MM6-7 I hunt for NPCs not only for their profession but also their look (picture). Now in MM9 I am stuck with one look for each profession. Also, as I said, because of low numbers of NPCs cities looks deserted. Well, not all - Sturmford, Drangheim and Arslegard have lots of people and even animals - if MM9 would be release later, I think other cities also will be full of life.

Silly main quest (and very similiar to MM6's).

MM6 has very different main quest (destroy the Alien base) from MM9 (imprison the ****). Ah, if you mean "Ally 6 clans" then it's close to MM8 then to MM6, and is not the main quest anyway.

Ally 6 clans is too similiar to MM6 council quests - obtain votes of all 6 lords/jargs by doing quest/2 quests for them. And later you have to fight inviding army /the Kreegan.

- no Bounty Hunting
- no item makers (that mens 'no gamblers')
- almost useless Circuses
- dungeon of secrets

I forgot about these.
I somehow like Dungeon of Secret. Yes, it's annoying and bugged but avoiding traps there is a challenge! (in middle of which you want to kill yourself )

+ changed Arena (now I even used it to fight)
+ Yanmir's Castle and Forest Giants there

Frosgard and Yanmir's Castle are very nice places. Too bad Arena is bugged (crashes).

[zalunaya]

I played quite a ways through the game but have never finished it 100%. It has been a while so some details are blurry and I have likely forgotten many things. With this in mind, here's my list:

Dislike:
The new 'paper doll'. I like being able to see what is equipped just by looking at the character, not by right-clicking on the tiny items.
Also, the old system gave a better look at how objects progressed in power; a low-quality item would actually look like an old rusty garbage blade, while artifacts could have a lovely golden tint and ornate details.

- No arcomage Probably my favorite of any mini-game within a game.

- No alchemy; I liked MM6 system, since in 7 I could buy all the black potions I needed by the time I reached the point my druid could be promoted to make them. Any alchemy system would have been welcome, however.

- Spells - Invisibility was a key part for a few of my MM7 playthroughs (especially on light path), and of course flight...I miss them very much.

- Hired NPCs could use a boost.

- Nicolai.

- Finding some trainers. There was one in specific that was a major issue, though I can't remember which one... it's been a while.

- Black chests, and missing artifacts by not opening them on the first time visiting a dungeon (I think this was the issue...)

- My melee combatants seemed more effective than my magic users, but there's always the possibility that I did not create my mages properly.




What I like:

- The music. This is probably my favorite part of the game, it's very well done.

- Hired NPC can help in fights.

- Some of the art and in-jokes are great. I had to read online to find out some of them, I'll admit.

- Game doesn't take itself too seriously, although this can be a downside at times.

- The old men that have a funny conversation in a tavern sometime near the beginning of the game. Strangely enough, that's something that kept me playing for longer, even after hearing so many bad things about the game.

- The promotion system. It wasn't actually too bad, after I learned how it progressed.

- The little "tree" under skill descriptions. The stars make it very easy to visualize which classes get to expert/master which skills.

- The arena. It seemed more accessible, although somehow not as challenging.

[GrayFace]

These were the reasons why I stopped playing back in the day:
- Picking up corpses made terrible, especially with a delay that happens each time you 'open' a corpse
- Slow movement
- Bugs
I stopped playing after promotion quest for one of my classes wasn't accepted due to a bug.

[Bandobras Took]

Biggest Complaint: In-game documentation.

It can take you a long, long, while to realize that making an unarmed character requires starting with a spellcaster.

Other Complaints: Forgoing the bugs, which might have ended up fixed if 3do hadn't been going under --

* Item-breaking attacks. An annoying portion of the game that should never have stayed in that long.

* Takes a while for things to really pick up, story-wise.

* Progression of quests; I always seem to run in to a gap where I need to do a quest in order to progress and all the remaining ones are too difficult for my party.

Likes:

* Promotion system was cool.

* More ranged weapons than just bows.

* No more fly/invisibility.

* Swimming.

* The later quests in the game.

[tolich]

It can take you a long, long, while to realize that making an unarmed character requires starting with a spellcaster.

Manuals for lusers?

No more fly/invisibility.

Lol, it's nice to meet one that likes it!

[skinothetis1]

Hmm.It's my next m&m game before i play 3-4-5 so it's that point in time that i have done a full circle and starting a m&m game again after i have played the others.Anyhow the point is i don't remember that much so i'll be brief(sort of)
Hate:
What i surely remember is a #@$$#@#$ cave that you have to get in and complete some game in order to get,er something.Fortunately i remember that you can avoid this one and it won't impact the game.
Also i remember pressing pageUp....PageUp?....OH COME ON PAGEUP ALREADY!!...A yes ok i cannot fly so i must walk the area or start running.Oh how nice and idiotic.
Ah another thing is i hate the god running after me every now and then at the end.That was annoying.
Once i took a class and then saved but later i remembered i didn't want that character to take the class.Get the point.
Spells.Bring me back my spells.
I have to hunt the people that promote me.Get a house or something,for real.
You play some carnivals to get fuzzy slippers for a king.Ree-e-e-e-eeealllyy!

Plus:
No Arcomage!MUHAHAHAHAHAAAARRRRR!
Yes i don't like it and i had a friend that played every tavern and i was bored and frustrated,started picking my nose,made little balls,then bend my head on the desk,then yawning then complaining then yawning again then getting ill,more ill,took my heart out,becoming a lich,KILLING THE F&CKEEEEERRR!Err,so i don't like Arcomage.
Some nice dungeons
Ill dragono.
Going to heaven because i am not going there in real life.
I don't see another plus.Ah another one is they stop before they decided to make a 10th sequel.They had this idea of gravitational field that not only you could not fly but you must walk while Zeus,sorry Jupiter, like gravity bends you.

[tolich]

#@$$#@#$ cave

Drangheim's Prison? Dungeon of Secrets? Dragon's Cave? Passage to Yorwick? Mountain Path? Though, last two cannot be avoided. And the last isn't a dungeon.

Going to heaven because i am not going there in real life.

Heaven also was in MM5 and in MM7.

[Tress]

Well old topic but will add my hate as well.

Dislike.Will make short version, but one thats longer than "Everything"

1) Graphic is ugly. Dont care it's 3d. MM6 looked better. And dont give me that litech explanation. We can look at NOLF 2 and then rethink that. Or pick bit more ugly avp2 that uses exactly same engine, that still beats mm9 by a mile.
2) Weak sound effect and music. Even if I am King's fan , his job at mm9 is weakest one i heard. There is only one more or less memorable track that is very unMM by nature. Rest of sound is really bleak as well. Various "what do you want" sound very bleak on contrast of mm6-9
3) Local humor is extremely bleak and I would even say "damaging to intellect and insulting" If Ludwig van, and beet hoven is supposed to be funny I think they need another writer for jokes, there were hardly any good references pop culture, mm6-8 had.
4) Combat lacks depth. There is almost no use for turn based, and all is redduced to just running around and spaming bolts. I hardly ever used any spells besides one damaging quick spell, and healing. Also why they added formation screen if it doesn't affect anything. They should check w8 to see how formation should work.
5) Skill spell system is extremely unintuitive. For example there was 3 classes that can GM blades, but without external fan sites or rare manual, we cant understand that assassins, GM blades only work with daggers. Spells also, are extremely unintuitive, we cant know which skills actually upgrade which spell efficiency, (in mm6-8 each spell had written what each spell do at each level of mastery). Spell book also looks like trash heap,where every spell is tossed with no categorization.
6) Weak plot. I wont even go in details how absurd and un MM it was.
7) Poor exploration possibilities, both individual location and globally. Locally there is just handful of mountain corridors we are confined with. Globally we are extremely limited where we can go. So unit we get to guberland we are confined into 4 locations that each are opened strictly in turn.
8) Poor inventory screen, No ragdoll(That was one of my favorite aspect of mm6-8).
9) Almost nothing that would suggest it is MM game at all. Only thing are - hand of turn based mode(but as it's rarely used this argument is somewhat diminished ). Animal referencing cult. Nearly easter egg reference to Nickolai. (well some various letters but they are vague)
10) Extremely poor interface. - No cursor on adventure screen. Thus talking to hired npc is unintuitive. I realized that I can talk with Forad only after I red that in manual. Indentifie monster skill thus, is also nearly unusable, not to mention we cant check monsters % health. In addition seeing which person is active is almost unnoticeable due to very dim yellow outline around portrait. No mini map, map screen is uninteractive, and already explored that kills exploration. (fact that we already see secret passage in map in dooks castle somewhat kills idea of searching for it.)

LIke..
Well cant really think of any positive things. It's team based RPG, guess thats all.

[Avonu]

Indentifie monster skill thus, is also nearly unusable, not to mention we cant check monsters % health.

You can, just press "G" (I found it only because I looked into game keys setup). Not very user friendly option in middle of fight through (unlike in MM6-8).


From up to bottom: level (should be 50 not 0), HP, Melee damage, Range Damage, Spells (Column of Fire and Paralyze).

[Tress]

Ye actually formulated wrong. I know G button activates skill, but it's hell of a unpractical thing, since you must target each monster. Also unlike mm6-8 without skill we cant even know appropriate state of monster(If I remember right, that green line was not present without skill ). In mm7 without skill we couldn't know exact hp and other info but we could always know how wounded he was. This option was included even as far s mm4 (dont remeber mm3 but perhaps it was there as well)where they colored wounded mob names yellow and red so we know which one is wounded. In mm9 we need identify skill for even such basic need.

[tolich]

level (should be 50 not 0).

I think his level is 50 to help identifying him. IIRC, the maximum level of creature that Monster Identifyer can identify is thrice level of ID monster skill.

This option was included even as far as mm4.

Edit: obviously

level is 50

should be read as

level is 0

[Tress]

Even better. So mm9 is pioneer in matter of keeping us in dark about mob health(well at least it tries to by making it almost impossible).

[Avonu]

Oh, I see. I think we can blame 3DO for this "feature" and lack of time to proper desing MM9.

[GreatEmerald]

http://df2.ucoz.ru/2011/08/30/11607-1314694581.png http://df2.ucoz.ru/2011/08/30/68-1314694613.png

And don't forget .......(WOUNDED)

[tolich]

And don't forget .......(WOUNDED)

They are too hard now to just wound gremlin or rabid jackal.

[Bandobras Took]

It can take you a long, long, while to realize that making an unarmed character requires starting with a spellcaster.

Manuals for lusers?

I'm game; where in the manual does it tell you that Druids are the ones who can Grandmaster Unarmed? I can't find it in mine.

[tolich]

Where in the manual does it tell you that Druids are the ones who can Grandmaster Unarmed? I can't find it in mine.

Prima’s Official Strategy Guide to MM9, page 10. Though, I agree, this fact cannot be found in 3DO manual. Perhaps it's left to be learned from the game. Simple logic says that if none of Fighters can GM this skill then one of Initiates will at certain time.

[Tress]

Thats's highly unintuitive to say least.

[skinothetis1]

#@$$#@#$ cave

Drangheim's Prison? Dungeon of Secrets? Dragon's Cave? Passage to Yorwick? Mountain Path? Though, last two cannot be avoided. And the last isn't a dungeon.

Going to heaven because i am not going there in real life.

Heaven also was in MM5 and in MM7.

I think it was Dungeon of Secrets.It's where a @#$@$# gong is banging and if you make a false move you have to start allover.I could kill people for creating that dungeon.

[Bandobras Took]

Perhaps it's left to be learned from the game. Simple logic says that if none of Fighters can GM this skill then one of Initiates will at certain time.

Hence my original complaint -- the in-game documentation needed work. Initiates can't even learn basic Unarmed, for crying out loud.