Timeline Order of Play - What do I do next?

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Timeline Order of Play - What do I do next?

Postby BMJedi » Jan 16 2011, 1:18

Hello, friends. I've just recently started playing MM6 again after more that a year's playing other games. I once again am overwhelmed by the richness of story and compelling gameplay of the 3DO games compared to contemporary offerings. What impresses me most this time is that MM6 is just as challenging and addictive at 60th level as it was at 1st level! The contemporary games, even if challenging at first, always seem to get easy by high level phase, and I tend to lose interest.

Anyway, I am so entrhalled by my current MM6 playthrough, that I am thinking about "reliving" the whole story from HOMMI forward, or at least from MM6 forward.

I distinctly remember a story printed in the HOMMI manual, which I have long since lost, that told of Roland's and Archibald's father being sent through one of the gates and discovering Enroth, from an unknown world.

I am tempted to go all the way back to the Succession Wars and play that again, though I may or may not at this point.

My question, however, is, in what order should I play all the games to be playing chronologically, especially as HOMM and MM intertwine? Include the expansions in the timeline, if you please. For example, do Restoration of Erathia, Armaggedon's Blade, and Shadow of Death all occur before MM7, or is there some interlacing? Where does MM8 fit in? etc.

Thanks.
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Postby MMXAlamar » Jan 16 2011, 3:50

Here's a timeline of the Might and Magic universe starting from Heroes I that I've written up:

Heroes I
Heroes II: The Succession Wars
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
Heroes III: The Shadow of Death
Heroes III: The Restoration of Erathia
Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor
Heroes III: Armageddon's Blade
Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer
Heroes Chronicles: The Sword of Frost
Might and Magic IX: The Writ of Fate
Heroes IV

According to the MM Wiki, The Shadow of Death campaigns take place before the ones in The Restoration of Erathia. MM7 would follow H3, but be before Armageddon's Blade, because Xenofex (whom you kill in MM7) is replaced by Lucifer Kreegan in Armageddon's Blade. I am unsure of the order of the last three, because there are some discrepancies, but according to my timeline, next is MM8, followed by Heroes Chronicles: The Sword of Frost, then comes Armageddon (the Reckoning) and MM9 and Heroes IV take place last, on Axeoth.
To me there is still the mystery of the letter in MM9 found on the ground beside Prince Nicolai. It's from Roland, mentioning that he has gone off to forge Armegeddon's blade, but if that were a recent letter, then MM9 would have to have occured right after MM7. Nicolai also mentions the devils, which I assume that he doesn't know they've been defeated on Enroth.

Maybe someone can answer this question for me!

Well I Hope this helped :D

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Postby GreatEmerald » Jan 16 2011, 11:59

See this post, I've made a list of games in chronological order:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/ ... 228#294228

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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 13:20

Clash of the Dragons takes place after Armageddon's Blade. Yes, it is so. Like it or not, this is a canonical fact. See second map of Playing With Fire campaign in AB. One of the Tavern rumors says "A Nighon Overlord wants to be the Queen". One can argue this rumor being "vague", but that's not the case: it is titled "Dragon's Blood". Coupled with the fact that all of the rumors (except ones concerning Foolhardy Waywardness campaign) are written in Present Simple tense, that means that Dragon's Blood campaign takes place in the same time period as Playing With Fire, Dragon Slayer, Armageddon's Blade and Festival of Life. That means Clash of the Dragons takes place after AB, thus starting in spring of 1172/3.

About King of Erathia being mentioned, that was, well, the King of Erathia :) It is explicitly stated near the end of AB that Morgan Kendal had to choose the new ruler of Erathia, so it's logical that he did so. There was a talk about Sir Kentaine's words in A True Blade in the forum, but he doesn't say anything that would disprove the new king ruling Erathia during CotD. He just says "I have outlived a king and a queen, thus I don't think I can be a Swardbearer anymore". Kentaine just refers to him outliving two members of Gryphonheart dynasty to which he is the Swordbearer. Demons fighting on Mutare's side were never called ”the Kreegan” in CotD. They appear to be demons from the Underworld. A miniscule number of Kreegans did survive the events of AB (as indicated by Gauldoth's words in Half-Dead and Hexx's bio), but this was no significant number and in CotD there is clearly the army of Demons.

As for the events of M&M I-V, M&M II starts almost immediately after the very end (heroes reaching the Gate to Another World) of M&M I, M&M III starts about 9 years after M&M I-II, and WoX (M&M IV-V and the aftermath) starts several months after M&M III (it takes ”days” for Corak and Sheltem to reach XEEN and then months later the heroes start their adventure in Vertigo). Af for M&M I-V timing in relation to M&M VI-IX and HoMM, they really could have taken place any time before the arrival of the Ultimate Adventurers shortly after the Restoration Wars. The most obvious oprion is that there was a short time between the end of M&M III (Ultimate Adventurers observe Corak and Sheltem crashing on XEEN and decide to continue their quest) and the heroes arriving on Enroth, but its even possible that M&M I-III took place thousands of years before M&M VII with timing issues (heroes not aging, the long time it would take them to reach Enroth with this option) explained by the twin paradox. Same way M&M III could have happened several decades or centuries before M&M VII. So, we can hypothethically place M&M I-V before HoMM I (or even before Warlords of the Wasteland).

The first mission of New Beginning campaign of SoD takes place a year after the end of HoMM II. The rest of New Beginning and SoD as a whole takes place shortly before RoE (Gelu is about 16/17 years old).

As stated by Tim Lang, M&M IX takes place shortly after the Reckoning and Nicolai was about 23 at the time of the game. That makes Reckoning take place in 1178. It is hard to figure out the timing of all HoMM IV campaigns, especially The Gathering Storm and Winds of War. A True Blade takes place four years after the Reckoning, thus 1182 (if we don't assume LotA canon). Half-Dead starts after the first mission of Price of Peace (Great Arcan is already established).

From the rough estimations that Tarnum is “a thousand years old” given in the games and the fact that there is a Necromancer in the Underworld in CotU, it can be deduced that Conquest of the Underworld takes place at the dawn of 5th century AS (Necromancy and Dark Magic are already invented by Ethric and Terrax) and Warlords of the Wasteland roughly in the first half of 4th century AS. Masters of the Elements events could be rather recent, but it most likely takes place a long time before M&M VI-VIII (for people to not remember the Elemntal Lords' attack on Bracada clearly). The World Tree takes place after MotE (release order and the mention tha Tarnum once again became a barbarian at the end of MotE) and The Fiery Moon right after The World Tree. The Sword of Frost takes place shortly before the Reckoning, thus 1177-78. It's hard to figure out the timing. It's probably a few centuries before RoE, since Tatalia is already a firmly established nation in the latter.

Dates are given with an assumption that LotA isn't canon. As for the novels, The Dreamwright could take place virtually in any time as Geary Gravel's books have absolutely no relation to other M&M settings. The Shadowsmith takes place shortly after The Dreamwirght. Crusaders of Might and Magic takes place after the start of the Ancient-Kreegan war, Warriors of Might and Magic is a long time after CoMM, probably even centuries. The Sea of Mist is most likely after the Reckoning (Nimus is present) and before Shifters. The latter appears to take place about 20 years after WoMM, based on Praz's age. The singlplayer version of LoMM was never released and some texts in the final version mention ”generations” (IIRC) passing since the Succession Wars.

All in all, the timeline order of titles would be:
  1. Might and Magic I: Secret of the Inner Sanctum
  2. Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World
  3. Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra
  4. Might and Magic IV and V: World of XEEN
  5. (semi-official) Might and Magic: Swords of XEEN
  6. Heroes Chronicles: Warlords of the Wasteland
  7. Heroes Chronicles: Conquest of the Underworld
  8. Heroes Chronicles: Revolt of the Beastmasters
  9. Heroes Chronicles: Masters of the Elements
  10. Heroes Chronicles: The World Tree
  11. Heroes Chronicles: The Fiery Moon
  12. Heroes of Might and Magic I: A Stategic Quest
  13. Heroes of Might and Magic II: The Succession Wars
  14. Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Shadow of Death
  15. Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
  16. Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Restoration of Erathia
  17. Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor
  18. Heroes of Might and Magic III: Armageddon's Blade
  19. Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer
  20. Heroes Chronicles: Clash of the Dragons
  21. Heroes Chronicles: The Sword of Frost
  22. Might and Magic IX: The Writ of Fate
  23. Heroes of Might and Magic IV (and it's expansions?)
  24. (book) The Sea of Mist
  25. Warriors of Might and Magic
  26. Shifters of Might and Magic
  27. Legends of Might and Magic
  28. (book) The Dreamwright
  29. (book) The Shadowsmith
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Postby GrayFace » Jan 16 2011, 15:50

I suppose Crusaders of MM have no information on time they occur? At least I don't remember any.
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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 15:54

It is clear that they take place after the Silence, since there is already Ancient-Kreegan war going on. And most likely before HoMM IV, because "the lord of death" from Half-Death appears to be Necros who resides in his own mini-plane located on the Kreegan planet he was banished to and created using the power Necros acquired.
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Postby GrayFace » Jan 16 2011, 16:02

Hm, I've searched through texts of Half-Dead and haven't found mentions of "the lord of death".

On a side note I'm also planning to go back to an NWC game I haven't played for a very long time. It's Heroes 3. Although I occasionally develop WoG, I still haven't played AB campaigns and most of SoD campaigns.
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Postby GreatEmerald » Jan 16 2011, 16:07

To be honest, both lists are correct. The changes are controversial, nobody can be sure if the events go in that order. Not to mention that games often have different missions taking place in a variety of different times or in parallel with other games. My list makes it easier for the player, however, since for example having a break between the MMs with HCs is a good distraction.

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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 16:13

CotD taking place after AB isn't controversial, actually. It is directly implied by Playing With Fire campaign.

"Lord of death" is mentioned in the last mission of Half-Dead. He is the entity Kalibarr serves.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Corlagon » Jan 16 2011, 16:42

I still haven't played Warriors of Might and Magic for PS2, but I know you can find Drake's recently-slain corpse somewhere in the Monastery of Enroth in that port. Warriors has Daria in it, and Daria is in The Sea of Mist, which is (probably) on Axeoth and has Nymus in it.

As such I'd say Crusaders takes place sometime in the 1160s, maybe around the time of H3 (that would be appropriate). It's somewhere in the 1100s, at least.

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Postby BMJedi » Jan 16 2011, 16:47

Thanks, everyone, those lists are very helpful. They all seem to agree on the most important ordering points, at least for the games I want to play - HOMM1-4 and MM 6-8. (I can't stomach MM9 because of the gameplay and the artistic shortcuts.)

I did see the other thread from August-October 2010 where people were arguing back and forth about the finer points of the complete story timeline. I thought it was very interesting reading.

But I just wanted a general sense of what order to play the games in, and thank you all for that.

BTW - I can't remember any story from The Price of Loyalty. Do those expansion campaigns add anything important for the time between the Succession Wars and MM6?
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Postby Corlagon » Jan 16 2011, 16:53

The Price of Loyalty has literally nothing to do with the whole MM continuity which these guys presented, although it has got Solmyr in it which is always a plus.

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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 16:56

The Price of Loyalty has nothing to do with MM universe. It has no realtion to any storyline of games or books whatsoever and there are no nods to MM universe in any of four campaign. The campaigns themselves, however, are interconnected. For instance, Crazy Uncle Ivan from Descendants appears in the last mission of Wizard's Isle and (IIRC) there is Draconia in The Price of Loyalty.
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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 16:57

Corlagon wrote:The Price of Loyalty has literally nothing to do with the whole MM continuity which these guys presented, although it has got Solmyr in it which is always a plus.

Solmyr appears only in a single player map AFAIK and that character has nothing to do with Solmyr from HoMM 3-4.
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Postby Corlagon » Jan 16 2011, 17:09

no nods to MM universe in any of four campaign


Well, weak as it is, don't forget about that guy Anduran. He's mentioned elsewhere.

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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 17:19

There was going to be the Gate of Anduran in the original LoMM, but the original LoMM was never released and I don't think that this Gate had anyhting to do with Armor of Anduran.
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Postby GrayFace » Jan 16 2011, 18:53

XEL II wrote:"Lord of death" is mentioned in the last mission of Half-Dead. He is the entity Kalibarr serves.

That's an interesting theory, why do you think "the nameless one" is Necros?
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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 19:02

His description and role fit very well with Necros' fate at the end of CoMM. Necros wanted to enchance his magical power using energy from a Kreegan-infested planet by channeling it through the Gate left by the Ancients in the Citadel. But Drake destabilized the Gate, resulting in Necros getting sucked there in the process. It is very logical that Necros did ecnhance his powers and created a pocket dimension of sorts in the Kreegan world. He became its "God of Death" bent on inflicting death and destruction. Plus, Sendark from The Sea if Mist (which takes place on Axeoth) serves Necros.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby MMXAlamar » Jan 16 2011, 19:15

Wow, great post XEL II!
The timeline you've made is brilliant. It would be good if we could put dates to each game and make a more detailed timeline.

XEL II wrote:As for the events of M&M I-V, M&M II starts almost immediately after the very end (heroes reaching the Gate to Another World) of M&M I, M&M III starts about 9 years after M&M I-II, and WoX (M&M IV-V and the aftermath) starts several months after M&M III (it takes ”days” for Corak and Sheltem to reach XEEN and then months later the heroes start their adventure in Vertigo). Af for M&M I-V timing in relation to M&M VI-IX and HoMM, they really could have taken place any time before the arrival of the Ultimate Adventurers shortly after the Restoration Wars. The most obvious oprion is that there was a short time between the end of M&M III (Ultimate Adventurers observe Corak and Sheltem crashing on XEEN and decide to continue their quest) and the heroes arriving on Enroth, but its even possible that M&M I-III took place thousands of years before M&M VII with timing issues (heroes not aging, the long time it would take them to reach Enroth with this option) explained by the twin paradox. Same way M&M III could have happened several decades or centuries before M&M VII. So, we can hypothethically place M&M I-V before HoMM I (or even before Warlords of the Wasteland).


I guess the best way to figure out when the characters from MM3 reached Colony is to either figure out the timeline across all games and compare dates, or to map the locations of the worlds in the rim and measure by distance and estimate how long it would take for them to travel through space from Terra to Colony.

Cool stuff here :D

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Postby XEL II » Jan 16 2011, 19:24

Actually, we don' know how far Terra and XEEN are from Enroth. It's clear that XEEN is pretty far away from Terra, but we don't now if XEEN and Terra are located in the same sector of space as Enroth and (probably) Axeoth. We can't really estimate, because we don't know how long the Ultimate Adventurers flew from XEEN to Enroth. It could have been decades, centuries or even thousand of years if we keep the twin paradox and mind. Alternatively, it could have been short time between them arriving to XEEN and landing on Enroth, bot options are equally possible. So, it is logical to roughly place M&M I-V before Warlords of the Wasteland in the timeline.

By the way, the planet from M&M VI-VIII and HoMM I-III is called Enroth, not Colony.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark


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