Wox2 - DEMO IS AVAILABLE ! (only RUS language)

[vladimir-maestro]

very very strange to see do primitive 3d models with this engine and textures.
engine got shadows and atmospheric effects but 3d models are still from the past millennium
what about using normal mapping or parallasing, does your engine supports it? the only two things that was cool - dragonfly + tilemaps...maybe trees not so bad too...but all other creatures are ugly and looks hostile to complete work

[Larik]

the only two things that was cool - dragonfly + tilemaps...maybe trees not so bad too...but all other creatures are ugly and looks hostile to complete work

Comparing with what? With Crysis?

[MMXAlamar]

Looks good. You have some nice level designers.

[Torur]

Looks really good, I am definately going to follow the progress on this one.

[GreatEmerald]

Comparing with what? With Crysis?

If you want a comparison, then I would say the graphics there right now are of Unreal (1998) quality. Although it's very, very similar to MMIX engine (I see the same low poly models, lack of proper lighting yet rather detailed decorations). And the Lithtech engine there looked bad at release already.

The thing is, it seems that there are good designers there. However, if that polygon count is the most the engine can do, you should really consider using sprites instead. You can render them in any resolution you want and they will look a whole lot more beautiful than what you have right now.

[Larik]

If you want a comparison, then I would say the graphics there right now are of Unreal (1998) quality.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/r ... enshot.jpg

Do you ever play Unreal?

you should really consider using sprites instead

)

Just another man, trying to compare our project with commercial games...

[AlexYeCu]

…

I think, you are wrong about original UT game. May be our project`s graphic has not gone far enough from some games, based on UTE, but as for original UT — I think u`r wrong.
Anyway, we`r watching at Wizardry 8 graphic level or something like that, so, if u`r waiting something special in WoX2 graphics, u`ll be disappointed.
And of course we`ll not switch to sprite-mobs: we have a lot of low-poly mobs for the game and noone has plans to remake them

[MMXAlamar]

I think, you are wrong about original UT game. May be our project`s graphic has not gone far enough from some games, based on UTE, but as for original UT — I think u`r wrong.
Anyway, we`r watching at Wizardry 8 graphic level or something like that, so, if u`r waiting something special in WoX2 graphics, u`ll be disappointed.
And of course we`ll not switch to sprite-mobs: we have a lot of low-poly mobs for the game and noone has plans to remake them

Low poly is definitely the way to go! It will support more enemies and reduce potential game lagging. We're going to do something along the lines of this in MMX, and trim the unnecessary vertices afterwards.

[Spin]

I don't mind the low poly models, that's fine as long as there's a lot of models. However i do think that if you gave the lighting a little bit of work it would go a very long way and at least take the environment into the 2000's.

[MMXAlamar]

On the other hand, fewer but tougher/more intelligent monsters might make things more interesting!

[Lord13]

Who gives a damn for gfx! Just give good old MnM gameplay!

[GreatEmerald]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/r ... enshot.jpg

Do you ever play Unreal?

Just another man, trying to compare our project with commercial games...

Oh yes, I also do a whole lot of mapping there. And yes, they are comparable. That screenshot doesn't do the game justice - better see the flyby intro to see how it actually looks.

And yes, I am comparing them, since for one, it's a good scale. I'm not saying that your game has to be of better quality or anything, I'm just trying to give some tips about how to improve it. Sure, it would probably be unreasonable to remake all the models, but keeping in mind that sprites are a better idea could help with future projects.

MMXAlamar, high polygon count is an obstacle only for engines made from scratch. Engines that are backed by companies don't have limitations like that, because they have put a lot of effort in optimisation, hardware acceleration, LOD systems etc. So they can render lots and lots of polygons without lag. Of course, that's not to say that they support millions of polygons per model, but at least a few thousand are definitely easy to render.

[vladimir-maestro]

what is the poly-level limit of your 3d models? are you using so low-level specially or you just do not want to use high-poly or make them maybe twice better?

what about using 4.000 polys per model? i think that engine could handle such high-poly at the same time or am i wrong?

[Larik]

what is the poly-level limit of your 3d models? are you using so low-level specially or you just do not want to use high-poly or make them maybe twice better?

what about using 4.000 polys per model? i think that engine could handle such high-poly at the same time or am i wrong?

Ofcourse engine can handle 4,000 polys, and much more. Original models have thousands polys, but decreased this value to low-poly version.
Even with this things, we still can't create armys like in MM6. But we have much more mobs, than MM9.

p.s.
Do you see new gameplay video from Serious Sam 3?
Fail? Yes ) Say goodbay to oldschool massive meat-mob-shooter. Thanks to your high poly models...

[Spin]

that doesn't really make sense to be honest if at these graphics levels you can't have tonnes of enemies on the same screen at once. Either you're using the Oblivion engine that lags with more than 3 AI thinking at once or it's extremely unoptimised and you're running it on early 2000's laptops.

[vladimir-maestro]

that doesn't really make sense to be honest if at these graphics levels you can't have tonnes of enemies on the same screen at once. Either you're using the Oblivion engine that lags with more than 3 AI thinking at once or it's extremely unoptimised and you're running it on early 2000's laptops.

on my macihe i canplay oblivion without lags if i will try to kill whole city - all guards and citizens will follow me and this is more than 10 people!

you should know that how strong modern computers are + how may cheat

here is mine experiments with UNITY3D engine and FBX file format:
this is high poly model and low poly of 3.000 polys with a usage of a normal mapping

as you can see mine models do not have corners and still look soft even with 3.000 polys. in that case i still can create an army of such units as in mm6 was and still keep a good quality of the model

but people that i asked using models of 4.000 polys and keep facial mimic and lip animation to make their charecters to speak and emotion =) if made this man static and delete innermouth things - he will became 2.500 polysstill will be able to move but not to speak =)

if WOX2 team are interested in play with that low-poly model with bones - i can send it to them but file format need to be speaked about (cause we can use different versions and programs)

[AlexYeCu]

…

1. Our dragons have 2500-2700 verticies (~3 k faces), humanoids — 750-900 (1.7-2k faces). This a bit less than 3k polygons ) Of course they look not so close to the realty.
2. Our engine do not work with normal mapping. Sad but true.
3. Look at the mesh of your model — it`ll be extremely hard to animate it well, so, It`ll be necessary to make 5+ k polygons in the model for easy animation.
4. We have no enough people to make models with 3k polygons, face animation, etc. for a game with some dozens of intelligent races (who can speak and show emotions) and several dozens of monsters.

[GrayFace]

I think all that's needed is better textures with some shading included in them and more proportional models. One game I know that used textures with shadows in them is Sims 1.
The rogues have little legs and their masks don't look good, too black perhaps. The man here has a head that's too big: http://radikal.ru/F/s017.radikal.ru/i44 ... 0.jpg.html
This dude needs a more detailed weapon (especially texture-wise) and doesn't have eyes: http://radikal.ru/F/s53.radikal.ru/i139 ... 0.jpg.html

[AlexYeCu]

I think all that's needed is better textures with some shading included in them and more proportional models.

As for the textures — agreed, not all r good enough, but we r trying to do our best.

The man here has a head that's too big

Illusion ) This model was made by another modeler, not me, but I`ve seen it`s mesh — proportions are ok. But at the screenshot party looks down (so, we have perspective effect) and a peasant bend his head 2 right (closer to party) during 'stay' animation.

This dude needs a more detailed weapon

Yeah, some textures should be remade or fixed.

[vladimir-maestro]

just done in the early morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5_lN9Ym-nc
humanoid with just 2k poly, good facets and smooth moving animation.
there is no normal bump aplied here but texture quality is rather high
so you can see the effect.

at the begining there is a photo of high poly model about 125k plys and 2k poly as a result.
---
BTW - why you want to add crowds like in MM6? What it is for? to have dozens of 1 hp monsters do not make game more interesting, mm is an RPG game not a 3d shooter. IMHO is to do 10-20 monsters but make them more accurate and intelligent but not a hundred of cannon meat mobs!