Harmondale independent

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Which allegiance for Harmondale is the best?

Erathia
3
14%
AvLee
2
9%
Independent
17
77%
 
Total votes: 22

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Moks Pokemon
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Harmondale independent

Postby Moks Pokemon » Nov 15 2010, 11:23

Hey
I've read in some walkthrough that if you free the REAL human spy AND give the REAL plans to the elfs and if you give the trumptet to Grey (old Arbiter) Harmondale ain't gonna get conquered by either side. So a kingdom is formed. Is that true?

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Re: Harmondale independent

Postby Pitsu » Nov 15 2010, 12:23

Moks Pokemon wrote:Hey
if you give the trumptet to Grey (old Arbiter) Harmondale ain't gonna get conquered by either side.


AFAIK that is enough. It does not matter whether the spy and plans are fake or real.
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Postby GreatEmerald » Nov 15 2010, 13:58

Yea, the trumpet is the deciding factor. If you help both sides and throw the trumpet into a river, the war will end in favour of Erathia.

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Postby Macros the Black » Nov 15 2010, 14:18

I'm pretty sure you won't get the trumpet quest if you help one side twice. You need to either get the fake plans + fake loren or real plans + real loren.

If you do real loren + fake plans you side with Erathia immediately and skip the trumpet quest. If you do fake loren + real plans, you side with Avlee. Think of it like a boxing match. Normally there's two rounds, but if you're tied after the second round, there's a third round.
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Postby Pitsu » Nov 15 2010, 14:36

May be. But IIRC last time i got true Loren and delivered neither true nor false plans (so yeah, helped erathia only once) and still had the trumpet quest. Gave it to queen anyway...
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Postby Moks Pokemon » Nov 15 2010, 15:33

Thanks guys, gonna help both and give the trumpet to Grey, don't want to be killing my people with Erathian/Elven taxes.

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Postby Macros the Black » Nov 15 2010, 15:38

Pitsu wrote:May be. But IIRC last time i got true Loren and delivered neither true nor false plans (so yeah, helped erathia only once) and still had the trumpet quest. Gave it to queen anyway...

Well, in my solo playthrough I wanted to be neutral (human ranger.. couldn't decide if it was more fitting to choose humans or elves), but after getting the fake loren from the elfking I had a temporary lapse of logic and stole the real plans in fort Riverstride. I didn't think much of it, but apparently if you have the real plans you can't ask Catherine for the fake plans anymore (I assume the same goes for Loren).

After that, no matter how many times I loaded and waited in the Harmondale Inn or traveled back and forth, the messenger that starts the Trumpet quest never showed up and I had sided with Avlee. I think the elven banner was hanging there as soon as I came back to Harmondale, too.

Best to play it safe and help both sides.
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Postby Lord of the Guns » Nov 15 2010, 15:53

And according to any official release. WHICH status of Harmondale is canonical?
- Belongs to Erathia
- Belongs to Avlee
- Independent (Fly NWC Flag)

i've played this game long time ago and i've chose to send the trumpet to the judge in Harmondale.

this quest is very critical and chosing wrong dialogue and a leader of warring kingdoms will instantly kill you outright!

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Postby XEL II » Nov 15 2010, 16:44

Independent. Harmondale becomes independent after you choose the new Judge.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby GreatEmerald » Nov 15 2010, 20:16

Macros the Black wrote:I'm pretty sure you won't get the trumpet quest if you help one side twice. You need to either get the fake plans + fake loren or real plans + real loren.

If you do real loren + fake plans you side with Erathia immediately and skip the trumpet quest. If you do fake loren + real plans, you side with Avlee. Think of it like a boxing match. Normally there's two rounds, but if you're tied after the second round, there's a third round.

You can also always fail to do the quest in time and bring neither fake nor real items.

Lord of the Guns wrote:- Independent (Fly NWC Flag)

The fact that the NWC flag in MM6 stands for the followers of Baa and the fact that the cult of Baa still exists in MM7 + this is kinda disturbing...

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Postby XEL II » Nov 15 2010, 22:24

Baa symbol is not a flag, though.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby tolich » Nov 16 2010, 15:13

And it is not the symbol of Baa. It's a symbol ol of the Creators (NWC). ;)

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Postby Macros the Black » Nov 18 2010, 1:00

Anyway, as for the poll, the HoMM3 campaign "Seeds of Discontent" explains pretty well why indepence is the most fitting and best option for Harmondale.
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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Postby XEL II » Nov 18 2010, 3:17

Actually, no. Seeds of Discontent events were caused by Archibald to make AvLee and Erathia fight for Harmondale once again. The revolt in Welnin wasn't successful. Harmondale becmes independent during MM7, after the new Judge is chosen. History book describes how the dispute ends (after war if you choose Sleen or peacefully if you choose Fairweather) and the Contested Lands become Kingdome of Harmondale.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Corlagon » Nov 18 2010, 12:10

It's odd though that they continue to refer to it as just "the Contested Lands" in Armageddon's Blade, when Catherine drives an entire army through Cloverfield and Moss Valley to get to Eeofol.
Maybe the independent kingdom collapsed in on itself after its rulers decided to abandon it and go space-travelling instead :lol:

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Postby tolich » Nov 18 2010, 13:55

Corlagon wrote:its rulers decided to abandon it and go space-travelling instead :lol:
They returned to Harmondale, didn't they?

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Postby XEL II » Nov 18 2010, 14:05

I can't see why Lords of Harmondale and Ultimate Adventurers should permanently leave Enroth to search for Ancients. Contested Lands is another name of Harmondale, nothing strange Erathians still use it. Besides, Moss Valley was mentioned to be "Contested Land between Erathia and Eeofol".
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Corlagon » Nov 18 2010, 14:44

Wild guess but I'd say if they were still actively ruling Harmondale in 1171, Erathia might not have been freely traipsing around with thousands and thousands of troops in their territory. Either that or maybe they just allied with Catherine (but still, no mention of them whatsoever in AB aside from Lucifer's letter)

If you check out the various Antagarich maps, the Harmondale province is smack bang in the middle of Cloverfield and Mosswood - exactly where Moss Valley is located in H3 - and the Harmondale borders touch Eeofol and stretch right down to the Great Lake.

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Postby Macros the Black » Nov 18 2010, 17:03

XEL II wrote:Actually, no. Seeds of Discontent events were caused by Archibald to make AvLee and Erathia fight for Harmondale once again. The revolt in Welnin wasn't successful. Harmondale becmes independent during MM7, after the new Judge is chosen. History book describes how the dispute ends (after war if you choose Sleen or peacefully if you choose Fairweather) and the Contested Lands become Kingdome of Harmondale.
I didn't say they became independent in that campaign, just that it explains why it's the best option; because as long as the kingdom is acknowledged by Avlee and Erathia, they won't see it as their ground that they must reconquer and have wars about all the time. Giving Harmondale to either Erathia or Avlee is a surefire way to make the other kingdom start another war about it after a while.
Last edited by Macros the Black on Nov 18 2010, 22:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby XEL II » Nov 18 2010, 21:25

Fairweather is helping Gelu in AB, so they obviously have a friendly relationship.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark


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