Gunnery: The highest possible extendes in MM settings

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Lord of the Guns
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Gunnery: The highest possible extendes in MM settings

Postby Lord of the Guns » Nov 12 2010, 8:10


THIS THREAD COVERS CANEGHEM UNIVERSE ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF ASHAN!

KAPOW!

i've remember somebody here said that besides hi tech BLASTERS, firearms (and ... gunpowder) does exists in this universe, but not quite a portable version....

the most advanced NON-ANCIENT weapons with the features of gun is CANNON, and this weapon appears in MM8, (and there's one quest you must use one to finish it! oh yes! a quest in Regna)....

This game quite follows HOLLYWOOD POPPULAR CULTURES on certain societies. especially REGNAN pirates, giving them cannons on their defensive systems. however, Jadameans also appeared to use cannons for naval warfare, i've saw Mousemen galley (and maybe... Dark Elves merchant vessel) mounted broadside cannons in the game. and so Some dudes here said that Erathian and Enroth navy also mount cannons on their warships.
However, it never appeared to be functional in HEROES3 as land-based weapons... not even during siege.
here comes the questions.
1. What is the possible extent of firearms technology in this settings? are cannons the most advanced firearms available in that setting? (since H3 to Legends of the Ancients mod), If "hand cannons" or hand held guns (think of muzzle loading harquebus or musket) evenr exists, is this weapon too complicated to operate (compared to its efficiency to pierce plate armor) compared to any conventional crossbow so no one use them in the game.
2. Who/which nations/race/factions invented this weapon first since the time of SILENCE? and WHEN was the first time this weapon saw its usage?
3. As of its propeller, it's definitely black power (or isn't it?) so who invented this? (the mixtures are highly available in this game i think). and can COLONY alchemist invent gunpowder?
4. as of its "setting off" systems. does "mercury fulminate" percussion primer exists yet?

THIS THREAD COVERS CANEGHEM UNIVERSE ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF ASHAN!

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Re: Gunnery: The highest possible extendes in MM settings

Postby Pitsu » Nov 12 2010, 11:34

Lord of the Guns wrote:However, it never appeared to be functional in HEROES3 as land-based weapons... not even during siege.


One could ask whether the tower landmines + landmine spell are pure magic or real explosives.

1. What is the possible extent of firearms technology in this settings? are cannons the most advanced firearms available in that setting? (since H3 to Legends of the Ancients mod), If "hand cannons" or hand held guns (think of muzzle loading harquebus or musket) evenr exists, is this weapon too complicated to operate (compared to its efficiency to pierce plate armor) compared to any conventional crossbow so no one use them in the game.


AFAIK the early firearms had serious problems with accuracy and probably (gun)material (durability,weigth). Other thing is that it would be a problem for fantasy settings and gameplay. Therefore better not to include them. In the siege of Helms Deep in LotR, walls were blow up by "something", which in movie is show as gunpowder. Yet there are no guns in the story.
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Re: Gunnery: The highest possible extendes in MM settings

Postby Avonu » Nov 12 2010, 12:58

Lord of the Guns wrote:the most advanced NON-ANCIENT weapons with the features of gun is CANNON, and this weapon appears in MM8, (and there's one quest you must use one to finish it! oh yes! a quest in Regna)....

Ships in Heroes also have cannons. Look at sea cut-scenes in H3. Not to mention barrels and cannon balls which are present on H1 ship battlefield.

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Re: Gunnery: The highest possible extendes in MM settings

Postby GreatEmerald » Nov 12 2010, 13:42

Pitsu wrote:One could ask whether the tower landmines + landmine spell are pure magic or real explosives.

That's not much of a question, it must be pure magic since Dispel works on both cases.

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Re: Gunnery: The highest possible extendes in MM settings

Postby Pitsu » Nov 12 2010, 14:25

GreatEmerald wrote:That's not much of a question, it must be pure magic since Dispel works on both cases.


I would not say that everything that is affected by magic is itself magic. I do see little magic in bloodlust or weakness although they can be dispelled or cured(which is not much magic either). Maybe landmines are gunpowder bombs and dispel a kind of shockwave that destroys the detonator? Magic is magic only as long as it is "seemingly unnatural". If the animation for fireball would include the hero using a grenade launcher, fireball would instantly be no magic anymore, but simply a grenade.
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Postby Lord of the Guns » Nov 12 2010, 14:51

^ I've never try using DISPELL while laying siege against magi castle (TOWER) ever since i DO use cure after any debuffs enemy hero casted upon my men. however. the facts that Tower city uses landmine that ... by appearance. works by stepping over. much like WW2-era landmines intrigues me. it could pointed out that Alchemists not just can mix gunpowder or explosives, but also able to make usefulness of Mercury (II) Fulminate as landmine primer. making "step over" mechanism functional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_fulminate

in addition. being an attacker in a siege limits spell usefulness if you don't have EARTHQUAKE spells or have it without EXPERT EARTH MAGIC

then if there's any POST-SILENCE-MADE handheld firearms ever exists in ORIGINAL MM settings. then don't say that BRACADUUNS are quite capable of, but simply not to do it since they heavily rely on mage schools to issue any mage apprentices to use the wand that works more like a laser gun than being a magician tool.

also do you think that other factions have access to percussion cannon fuzes to use in naval combat if Bracaduun ( i think) have made such equipments long time ago.

Ships in Heroes also have cannons. Look at sea cut-scenes in H3. Not to mention barrels and cannon balls which are present on H1 ship battlefield.

I can't recall naval boarding action combat scenes from H1-H3s, could you please help me Avonu?

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Postby GreatEmerald » Nov 12 2010, 19:40

Lord of the Guns wrote:^ I've never try using DISPELL while laying siege against magi castle (TOWER) ever since i DO use cure after any debuffs enemy hero casted upon my men.

You should, there is nothing more satisfying than to take out the enemy town's moat in one single spell ;) You do need expert water magic, though.

(By the way, you shouldn't use caps on nearly every word, it's very annoying to read. Use italics instead.)

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Postby Avonu » Nov 27 2010, 19:18

Lord of the Guns wrote:
Ships in Heroes also have cannons. Look at sea cut-scenes in H3. Not to mention barrels and cannon balls which are present on H1 ship battlefield.

I can't recall naval boarding action combat scenes from H1-H3s, could you please help me Avonu?


Damn you... I "lost" half a day just by doing this screenshot ("one more turn" syndrome ;)).

Image

I won't do any H2 or H3 boat battleground screenshots soon... not enough time for this.

EDIT:
H2 sea battle anyway:

Image


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