The Angels in the original Might and Magic universe

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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The Angels in the original Might and Magic universe

Postby Zenofex » Nov 7 2010, 16:12

OK, I don't think I have seen any good reference stating for certain the actual origin of the angels in the JVC M&M universe and I have read a few speculations regarding their origin - none of which completely reliable. Some people here seem to know the answer, so... what are the angels? :)
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Postby XEL II » Nov 7 2010, 16:17

Greg Fulton said that if he "tell you [he was refering to anti-Forge "fans"] the origin of Arch Angels, I'm sure many of you would have a heart attack".

So, Angels are certainly not of divine origin. They base of operations is Celeste, capital of Bracada, which they guard. I think they are either creatures created by mages or servant of Colonial Government.
Last edited by XEL II on Nov 7 2010, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Zenofex » Nov 7 2010, 16:31

Yeah, I know about the heart attack part. The question is more about whether the devs of the previous games had released anything more specific about the potential cause of this heart attack before the original world went into oblivion.
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Postby Corlagon » Nov 7 2010, 16:46

I'm afraid the answer is no, they didn't. We can only speculate.
The common theory is that they are artificial servants of the Ancients, and may be akin to the Guardians (such as Corak, Escaton and co.). But it is still just a theory.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Nov 7 2010, 16:59

Genetically modified space chickens... it's the only plausible explanation.

Let me slay some people racing on cliffs and i'll post the whole undeniably true theory right here.
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Postby Secret_Holder » Nov 7 2010, 17:08

Because of that quote, I can't help thinking the angels being mechanical...

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Postby ThunderTitan » Nov 7 2010, 17:51

Or like the Forge units, part organic part mechanic... cyborgs.

Although the Forge units looked too low tech imo... should have looked more like magic metal made by Apple... Clarke quotes in Asimov novels and all that.
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Postby Zenofex » Nov 7 2010, 18:31

Pity, I was hoping for something... definite. The theory about their artificial nature is plausible, but sometimes I wonder if there is any chance the angels to be the Ancients themselves - like their warrior caste or special forces. It is quite unlikely given all the information from the games, but not 100% impossible.
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Postby Avonu » Nov 7 2010, 18:38

Secret_Holder wrote:Because of that quote, I can't help thinking the angels being mechanical...


Well, we saw three types of Guardians so far and all of them were mechanical:
1. HAL 9000 computer - Melian (however it for sure not operationed under Windows :P).
2. Data (Star Trek) android - Escaton.
3. And the newest model - biological machine with skeleton, flesh and blood - Corak and Sheltem.

Angels could be "phase 3" product.

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Postby Corlagon » Nov 7 2010, 18:50

For practical purposes it is kinda impossible that they're Ancients. Considering that the Silence literally denotes total lack of communication with the Ancients, and yet we have Angels chatting away in Heroes IV...

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Postby Avonu » Nov 7 2010, 19:06

"Star gate" web is out but there still is communication between planets - like sending Corak in spaceship to replace Sheltem, sending Escaton to "cleanse" worlds (and he sent back to Ancients last message somehow).

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Postby XEL II » Nov 7 2010, 20:07

I don't think there is anything new in Corak and Sheltem. By the way, we also have Guardian with the appearance of a dragon.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby ThunderTitan » Nov 7 2010, 22:21

Corlagon wrote:For practical purposes it is kinda impossible that they're Ancients. Considering that the Silence literally denotes total lack of communication with the Ancients, and yet we have Angels chatting away in Heroes IV...


Maybe the Silence isn't the ancients going away, but simply their internet connection failing... and the angels are just shell shocked ancient netizens...
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Postby GreatEmerald » Nov 7 2010, 23:13

Ancients should pretty much be humans. After all, they seed their seedships, and they create guardians that are similar to them (or experiment with dragons, apparently). Plus, we know how things like Star Trek influenced the games.

Avonu, phase 3 - the Borg? :D

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Postby Corlagon » Nov 7 2010, 23:28

They aren't humans either (the novels "The Dreamwright" and "The Shadowsmith" drew a very clear line between the Ancients and humanity, and then there's empirical evidence from Warriors of Might and Magic, and Shifters, that they have more advanced inherent powers like shapeshifting). They're referred to as one of the "Elder Races" in Crusaders of MM as well, whereas humans aren't.

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Postby Secret_Holder » Nov 8 2010, 0:23

Well, then they have to be mechanichal or even biomechanical even, seing as the devs hint that they're not supernatural.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Nov 8 2010, 6:37

Corlagon wrote:They aren't humans either (the novels "The Dreamwright" and "The Shadowsmith" drew a very clear line between the Ancients and humanity, and then there's empirical evidence from Warriors of Might and Magic, and Shifters, that they have more advanced inherent powers like shapeshifting). They're referred to as one of the "Elder Races" in Crusaders of MM as well, whereas humans aren't.

Maybe they're elder just because they have very advanced technology, which isn't obvious when you simply look at one. I can hardly imagine them being something like Protheans :\

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Postby Zenofex » Nov 8 2010, 8:42

The Ancients could be related to regular human or generally humanoid races (also dwarves, elves) like the homo sapiens is related to the ramapithecus.
About the angels - we know that they can't stand Kreegans and attack them on sight. Also they arrive from "heavenly" portals and are generally considered celestial beings. Many things related to the Ancients are "heavenly" as well. This is why I think the idea about Angel = Ancient can not be completely ruled out. They could be genetically enhanced troops with special functions - either transported to certain planets via ships and/or portals with lesser (local) functions, or remnants of the initial biosphere creation operations which were just cut off after the Kreegan invasion. However, such thesis has to explain why Escaton is playing blind for their presence all the time (although the same has to be explained by the thesis about their artificial origin) which may prove to be difficult.
By the way, I'm curious whether their resurrection abilities are just game mechanics or could be used as a hint about their nature and designation. On one hand it is quite an useful ability in battle, but this could only its support function - the primary being to restore the biosphere after a half-successful Kreegan invasion on a particular planet.
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Postby XEL II » Nov 8 2010, 11:55

Angels are far less powerful than the Ancients, so they can hardly be them.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Lord of the Guns » Nov 9 2010, 11:12

If Angels in Caneghem universe does not belong to particular god(s)

1. could they be one of pre-existed humanoid races much like Humans (Earth?), Dwarves and other shorties (??), Elves (hailed from a world which it has been destroyed by The Creators long time ago)?
2. If THE ANCIENTS created them to fight KREEGANS (devils, and maybe other demons but not Efreets nor Gogs... which belongs to THE FIRE LORD i think) some time before THE SILENCE. they should wield laser guns rather than a sword.
3. Judging by their alignments since H3 onwards. Angels may be recruitible in CASTLE towns (Starting from 2nd mission of the first Erathian campaign, Long live the Queen) so they always sided with Eratian knights. However, in MM7, they don't soar over Erathia (Battlesteed?) but guarding Wizard capitol of Celeste (over Bracada), plus Wizs are known to run armies of living werebeasts (?not sure if they could be classified as such). think of Gremlins, Genies, Nagas, and Cloud Castle Giants and Titans!

All of those TOWERS creatures appeared in HC: Warlords of the Wasteland, along with those of castles. including Angels. Is it possible that Angels were the creation of Bracaduuns? (... Kreegans didn't appear on COLONY until MM6, or they did.. in small, insignifant numbers with minimun threat). since Erathia military stemmed from Bracaduun Legionary, and Bracada was formed by Gavin Magnus, a man who cheated the death after Bracaduun fell to Tarnum.


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