The Nature and purpose of the Kreegans.

[GreatEmerald]

Maybe they are the same humans cause there are many reasons to think so...but MM5 brings us idea that they are humanoids dragon-like type cause of dragon pharao...

Since all first colonists on newly seeded planets are humans, and the Guardians usually look like humans, the ancients are humans all right.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

The 'Creators' are angry with the Ancients because they stole the materials to form their worlds, that is Lava from *their* Fiery Realm. As a result they want to take back what they believe rightfully belongs to them and melt everything into the Fiery Realm.

The 'Creators' are control of perhaps *are* the Fiery Realm (like spirit and body). They created the Kreegans as living weapons to further the objective of taking back what belongs to them. Namely everything that exists.

This is all made up.

No more made up than the rest of the Might and Magic/Heroes universe Secret_Holder.

[Corlagon]

Yes it is more made up than the canonical storyline and please don't construe otherwise, it is very frustrating. You totally invented all this stuff about lava and Creators being angry about materials and controlling the Fiery Realm and melting/destroying everything being their main motive. That is an awful lot of conjecture straight out of your head, barely supported, with the thinnest basis imaginable - none of the games say any of it and I know this for a fact because I've played them inside out - but according to you it's indisputably true and we're all idiots for rejecting it.

It is total fan fiction, pure and simple, but despite all our efforts you don't seem to believe there's a difference between theory and fact, and this is seriously impeding the discussions here because you continue to try "forcing" your theories on the participants, including me. I don't know if it's worth the time and effort anymore, I think the place is getting too tense; I'll just stop posting here until whenever the wave of apocryphal conjecture dies down at last.

[Secret_Holder]

No more made up than the rest of the Might and Magic/Heroes universe Secret_Holder.

Are you a complete dimwit?
So with that logic, I can safely conjure up all the nonsense about, say Lord of the Rings that I want, saying that 25 years after the ring was destroyed the Hobbits decided to stake their claim in all the glory and conquered Gondor.
Can I make this up, because J. R. R. Tolkien also made his story up?

Of course I can't. Tolien is the original writer, and what he has "made up" is canon (yes, in the Biblical sense). This is the same with what Jon Van Caneghem and his crew "made up" about the MM Universe.

Their made up story is canon, a generally accepted principle, and you and every other bozo with an internet connection can't just come along and invent your own stuff, and retrofit it into the canon.

[Bandobras Took]

Of course I can't. Tolien is the original writer, and what he has "made up" is canon (yes, in the Biblical sense).

Minor nitpick -- it can be canon in the literary sense; a rule or measure for determining if things are up to a certain standard.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

Yes it is more made up than the canonical storyline and please don't construe otherwise, it is very frustrating. You totally invented all this stuff about lava and Creators being angry about materials and controlling the Fiery Realm and melting/destroying everything being their main motive. That is an awful lot of conjecture straight out of your head, barely supported, with the thinnest basis imaginable - none of the games say any of it and I know this for a fact because I've played them inside out - but according to you it's indisputably true and we're all idiots for rejecting it.

It is total fan fiction, pure and simple, but despite all our efforts you don't seem to believe there's a difference between theory and fact, and this is seriously impeding the discussions here because you continue to try "forcing" your theories on the participants, including me. I don't know if it's worth the time and effort anymore, I think the place is getting too tense; I'll just stop posting here until whenever the wave of apocryphal conjecture dies down at last.

To go on about canon given that you completely dismiss canonical sources to the pre-reckoning presence of the Kreegans that I have gone through the bother of posting is rather hypocritical.

You completely dismiss bits of canon entirely according to an arbitrary heirachy, while all my 'conjecturing' is merely designed to thread together all the canon sources I have access to and it does it quite well without requiring any such heirachy.

Are you a complete dimwit?
So with that logic, I can safely conjure up all the nonsense about, say Lord of the Rings that I want, saying that 25 years after the ring was destroyed the Hobbits decided to stake their claim in all the glory and conquered Gondor.
Can I make this up, because J. R. R. Tolkien also made his story up?

Of course I can't. Tolien is the original writer, and what he has "made up" is canon (yes, in the Biblical sense). This is the same with what Jon Van Caneghem and his crew "made up" about the MM Universe.

Their made up story is canon, a generally accepted principle, and you and every other bozo with an internet connection can't just come along and invent your own stuff, and retrofit it into the canon.

That's not true. I can indeed write my own story in which the hobbits conquer Gondor because there is a definite gap in the story as to what happens next. The only thing I can't do is say something happened that contradicts what happened in the books.
In relation to the story that is canon, in the Hobbits conquer Gondor sequel what is written there is canon.

What I can't do is directly contradict the earlier canon, which writing a Hobbits conquer Gondor story does; because that is not the nature of hobbits as stated by the earlier canon (Tolkien).
One would have to explain then a convincing back-story of what caused the nature of the hobbits to become complete imperialistic warmongers, thus resolving the contradiction between your vision of hobbits and that of the original canon.

The Heroes of Might and Magic world is not the Might and Magic world, it's the other way around. Heroes II predates Might and Magic VI, the latter is set in the former world, not the other way around.
Jon Van Caneghem is the one writing 'fan-fiction' here, he is writing a sequel to Heroes II, into which he adds his Kreegans as protagonists. There are no Kreegans in Heroes II, which by your arguments logic mean that the very arrival of the Kreegans is non-canonical by your own reasoning.
As non-canonical as the idea of the hobbit invasion of Gondor as it is an event set in the unwritten future of already created imaginary world.

I have invented nothing that does not make sense of the canonical sources, it is canon that the Kreegans draw their power from the 'Fiery Realm' it is also canon that this Fiery Realm is a planet that fell into the hands of the Kreegans. It is canon that the Kreegans came from space arriving in Enroth.

If the Fiery Realm is just a planet the Kreegans arrived on, it is not possible for the Kreegans to draw their power from it, nor for Gauldoth to access it by blowing up an object. It is clear then that the 'Fiery Realm' is more than just a planet, but more like a plane, but is also a planet and for both statements to be true, requires the planet to be a huge portal to said plane.
We know that the Fiery Realm is a huge ocean of lava dotted with a few islands connected by magic portals; built around the sites of potential portal connections to other planets and inhabited by Kreegan creatures. That is canon too but in visual form rather than writing.

As we know know what the final outcome of Kreegan domination is (to become a huge portal to a Fiery Realm plane), then we can determine that the Kreegans that arrived from space exist to serve the process of melting everything into the Fiery Realm.

[Secret_Holder]

That's not true. I can indeed write my own story in which the hobbits conquer Gondor because there is a definite gap in the story as to what happens next.

No. Tolkien was wise enough to add appendices to the Return of the King, try reading them.

The Heroes of Might and Magic world is not the Might and Magic world, it's the other way around. Heroes II predates Might and Magic VI, the latter is set in the former world, not the other way around.

It must be annoying to be wrong on so many levels.
It's called Heroes OF Might and Magic, and there came 5 MM games before HoMM. So Heroes is partof another greater MM Universe.

Jon Van Caneghem is the one writing 'fan-fiction' here, he is writing a sequel to Heroes II, into which he adds his Kreegans as protagonists. There are no Kreegans in Heroes II, which by your arguments logic mean that the very arrival of the Kreegans is non-canonical by your own reasoning.

No you moron. JVC is the creater of the story. It's his intellectual property. Everything he "made up" is canon.

[Avonu]

The Heroes of Might and Magic world is not the Might and Magic world

[Corlagon]

That's not true. I can indeed write my own story

In relation to the story that is canon, in the Hobbits conquer Gondor sequel what is written there is canon.

The Heroes of Might and Magic world is not the Might and Magic world

Jon Van Caneghem is the one writing 'fan-fiction' here

As we know know what the final outcome of Kreegan domination is (to become a huge portal to a Fiery Realm plane)

Now I see just how futile all my efforts here have been. You just don't/won't/can't understand that there's a difference between canon and fan fiction.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

No. Tolkien was wise enough to add appendices to the Return of the King, try reading them.

And what happens beyond the end of the appendices to the Return of the King?

It must be annoying to be wrong on so many levels.
It's called Heroes OF Might and Magic, and there came 5 MM games before HoMM. So Heroes is partof another greater MM Universe.

The 5 Might and Magic games before Might and Magic VI were not set on the same world as Heroes and Might and Magic.

No you moron. JVC is the creater of the story. It's his intellectual property. Everything he "made up" is canon.

Yes what he writes is canon, did I ever say otherwise? All I was saying is that Might and Magic VI is technically the sequel to Heroes II which is technically the sequel to Heroes I.

Everything that is 'made up' in a story is a canon part of the story. Whose story it is, that is another question.

Now I see just how futile all my efforts here have been. You just don't/won't/can't understand that there's a difference between canon and fan fiction. tired

When people read a story they do not automatically understand the story exactly the same way that the author does.

If what is written down is canon, then as soon as it is actually understood by anyone but the author it becomes "fan-fiction".

What I am writing down here is nothing but my personal understanding of the what the canonical sources say when taken together. And my understandings of what the understandings mean.

[Secret_Holder]

And what happens beyond the end of the appendices to the Return of the King?

We don't know, but that doesn't give you the right to fill in the gaps, and categorically say that what ever you want to happen is fact.

The 5 Might and Magic games before Might and Magic VI were not set on the same world as Heroes and Might and Magic.

I never said that. I said they were in the same universe

Yes what he writes is canon, did I ever say otherwise? All I was saying is that Might and Magic VI is technically the sequel to Heroes II which is technically the sequel to Heroes I.

Of course it is!

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

We don't know, but that doesn't give you the right to fill in the gaps, and categorically say that what ever you want to happen is fact.

I have never attempted to categorically state that what I write is *fact*.

I do have the right though to fill in the gaps as I see fit, for as long as I do not contradict canon statements and what I write is loosely based upon them.

Is not point of fantasy stories is to engage people's imagination to make sense of them?

I never said that. I said they were in the same universe

Which is a big place.

Of course it is!

Yep and as so Secret_Holder, the claims that Might and Magic *came first* so the lore of Might and Magic should have precedence over Heroes lore do not hold water.

Because Might and Magic VI is a continuation of the story of Heroes II, it is actually arguable that Heroes came first in relation to this particular story in the Might and Magic universe, that of Enroth/Colony.

[Avonu]

Because Might and Magic VI is a continuation of the story of Heroes II, it is actually arguable that Heroes came first in relation to this particular story in the Might and Magic universe, that of Enroth/Colony.

23rd Day of the Month of the Raven,

Common Year 632

To my great and munificent lord, King Ragnar, from his loyal cousin Lord IronFist – Greetings.

It has been thirty days since I crossed through the mysterious gate which opened in the Varnal Hills and thus found myself in this strange and uncharted land. I wish my dear lord and cousin, through this missive, to dispel the ugly rumors about me, which I fear you might believe.
(...)
How I came into this strange land is still somewhat of a mystery to me.While wandering in the Hills, I, and my few retainers, stumbled into a narrow pass on the borders of your realm. As we walked into the pass, a strange glowing light engulfed us for a moment. We turned to go back from whence we came, but an invisible barrier was now in place. Try as we might, we could not penetrate it.

So we continued on, passing out of the Hills down into a strange uncharted land. All seemed different in this new place. The sun is not like the red of our land, but rather has a strange yellow hue. It seems that objects do not fall quite as fast when dropped and the air holds more moisture to it.

Castle White Wolf
Appearing calm and sedate, this castle grants you plenty of adventure. All
told, the quests tally seven. Lord Ironfist rules with power. Yet behind his throne you can remove his force. This brings you great treasure. The guards are cruel to those without pass.

Region D-1
This region is not to be attempted without proper navigation tools. Here Lord Kilburn’s location is evidenced.

Luxus Palace Royale

This elegant capitol of Cron is rather inaccessible except to the
adventurous. Nervous Queen Lamanda, ever-aware of her father’s
greatness, holds a feeble hand over the reins of government.

Castle Hillstone
Scenic Castle Hillstone, nestled between the Quaqmire of
Doom, the Plains of Peril, and the Lithospheric Barrier, is nearly as
deadly as its surrounding lands. Lord Slayer, a sadistic yet just
man, keeps a bevy of some of his favorite monsters in his
infamous Zoo. However, he is constantly seeking more trophies
and will not hesitate to ask the more adventurous party to bring
him them. Slayer is not without a lighter side and his Court Jester,
Foof, does his best to entertain Slayer’s guests.

[tolich]

The Heroes of Might and Magic world is not the Might and Magic world

The World of Heroes of Might and Magic was completely separated from the World of Might and Magic until MM6, where we actually act in HMM1-2 World, and MM7, where we meet adventurers from Terra.
Yes, Morglin is a Varnling, but he occasionaly came into a very different world.

[Secret_Holder]

Once again, you can't say "world" of MM, as the first 5 MM games take place on 4 different worlds.

It's the same universe

[ThunderTitan]

Are you guys still bothering with Slayer?!

[Secret_Holder]

Yup, it's like discussion evolution with a creationist

[ThunderTitan]

Except that a creationism might make a valid philosophical point once in a while (unless he's a young earth one)...

[Secret_Holder]

True, true.

Philosophically I have no beef with creationism.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

Yup, it's like discussion evolution with a creationist

As dealing with so many of your objections is like discussing Theology with a Fundamentalist.

To reject anything that isn't based upon a strict literal interpretation of canon references, that is so like fundamentalists with scripture.

I'm the one dealing with game-world fundamentalism here, the insistence that anything I say is automatically wrong unless it is simply the recitation of canon statements.

And the assumption that just because I dare step outside literal black and white acceptance of sources that means that somehow I have some malevolent agenda to pass off my theories as if they were equal with canon statements.