The Nature and purpose of the Kreegans.

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The Nature and purpose of the Kreegans.

Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Oct 2 2010, 16:59

It has become necessary to compile in one place all the evidence and the reasons behind my theory on the nature of the Kreegans for everyone's sake as everyone was getting rather confused (including myself).

1.
a) We know that Kreegans domination results in a sea of lava called the Fiery Realm (Heroes IV death campaign). The Kreegans there live on specially adapted but tiny and barren islands (icy islands for Ice Demons) connected by portals.
b) That the magma of the planet has settled in such an intelligent fashion into islands connected by magical portals suggests that some higher intelligence controls the lava of the Fiery Realm.

2.
a) We know that the Kreegans draw their power from *the* Fiery Realm (Heroes IV death campaign). Power could mean sustenance as in
food or magical power.
b) If demons can draw power from the Fiery realm (a different planet) while *on* a another planet entirely, it means that the Fiery Realm must be a different plane of existence.
c) But since we know that it is definitely a planet that has "known the dominion of the Kreegans" not a plane, the entire planet has to be a portal of some sort wider plane, as it is clearly both.

3.
a) We know that the Kreegans originally arrived on Colony from space via asteroid-like spaceships (Might and Magic VI-VIII).
b) We know that the Kreegans nature is locust-like, they arrive, consume resources rapidly and then move on. They follow biological objectives however destructive.
c) This process would not conflict with the local lifeforms well-being unless the resources they are consuming are the same resources used by those lifeforms. We know that they do conflict. Kreegans must therefore consume food and water.

1a and 3c conflict- The ultimate result of Kreegan domination however appears to turn the planet into the Fiery Realm. There is nothing to eat in a world of magma, for the Kreegans to eat magma would mean they do not conflict with local lifeforms, since magma is found in immense quantities deep beneath the earth and as Kreegans are immune to fire there is no need to bring it to the surface in order to drink it.
Resolution- It is clear that other agents are involved which are somehow enabled by the Kreegans conquest and exploitation of the planets resources to transform the planet into a part of the Fiery Realm.
Insight- From 2c we know that the Fiery Realm is both a planet and a plane; the planet has become a portal to the plane. We know from 2a that the Kreegans draw their power from the Fiery Realm, which means that the Fiery Realm is aiding them in some way. We know from 1b that the Fiery Realm is controlled by some mysterious intelligence. The the Kreegans may ultimately be serving the interests and purposes of this being(s), hence the outcome of their domination being the expansion of that realm to yet another planet, against their actual biological interests.

4
a) We know that it is possible by blowing up an object connected to the Fiery Realm (The Angel Blade) at a key point in the planets 'ley lines of magic' to create a portal directly to a Fiery Realm planet. (Heroes IV death campaign).
b) We know that the network of portal connected islands is built around the potential site of the portal to Axeoth.
c) We know that the Kreegan creatures in the Fiery Realm planet are identical to those on Axeoth, but are effectively imprisoned in the island network.
d) We know that a Kreegan actually helps Gauldoth to open a portal to the Fiery Realm, by giving him the Angel Blade.

5.
a) The Kreegan asteroid/spaceship from which the Kreegans originally arrived created a fiery explosion and shock-wave that appears to cover a quite considerable area (Might and Magic VI loading screen).
b) If the spaceship, an object connected to the Fiery Realm (a world dominated by the Kreegans) is destroyed in an the explosion covering such a wide it is inevitable that the explosion would intersect with at least one key point in the magical ley lines of the planet in question.
c) As a result portals to the fiery realm would be created in the vicinity of the landing site, through which new Kreegans could potentially emerge in addition to the main invasion force that arrived in the ship.
d) If it is possible for the Fiery Realm to create islands for Kreegans to live on, it is also possible for it to create space-ships, which would incidentally enough look rather like asteroids and then hurl them into space.

6.
a) We know that the Kreegans of Heroes III and Heroes IV lack both the technology and many of the resistances of their brethren in Might and Magic VI, VII and VIII.
b) We know that Might and Magic VII is set at the same time as Heroes III, yet the Kreegans fought at Colony Zod do not live in anything that remotely resembles an Inferno and possess technology lacking to their brethren in Heroes III.
c) We know from Might and Magic VIII that the Kreegans were destroyed, yet it is clear from Might and Magic IX (King Nicolai's dialogue) that they made a resurgence before the Reckoning in Enroth, else he would have not have assumed the Kreegans took Castle Ironfist when the Reckoning happened.

Resolution- These conflicts can best be resolved by dividing the Kreegan creatures into two factions, the first is more advanced and powerful and which originally arrived from space; these I call the Hive-Kreegans. The second faction emerged from the portals that were created by the initial landing of the Kreegans, these are called the Gate-Kreegans and are the only Kreegans actually encountered in Heroes III and IV. The Hive-Kreegans were eventually wiped out utterly, the Gate-Kreegans defeated by Queen Catherine were to retreat through the portals back into the Fiery Realm, where they would reside temporarily before returning to Enroth just before the Reckoning. When the Reckoning happened, some of them fled back to the Fiery Realm, while other fled through the portals to Axeoth.

7.
a) The Inferno's of Heroes III are the portals through which the Gate-Kreegans arrived and eventually left.
b) From what little we know about the creation of Infernos, it involves the 'raising' of a volcano (Heroes III Dungeons and Devil Campaign).
c) The reason why this is so, is that lava is connected magically (just like the Angel Blade) to the Fiery Realm and to trigger the creation of a volcano in the right place (one of the key points along the planet's ley lines of magic) allows an Inferno to be created there.

The 'ideal' Kreegan invasion is split into 3 stages.

Stage 1- The Hive-Kreegans land on a planet and begin to conquer the world, devouring it's inhabitants and rendering the planet barren. But in landing they unwittingly trigger the creation of Infernos whose inhabitants place themselves at the disposal of them.
Stage 2- The Hive-Kreegans having rendered the world barren and devoid of inhabitants depart and the Gate-Kreegans, the 'loyal allies' of the Hive-Kreegans create Infernos across the entire planet unopposed. But in doing so they unwittingly bring the world closer and closer to the Fiery Realm.
Stage 3- The Fiery Realm emerges and turns the whole planet into a sea of lava, *a* Fiery Realm.

This however is only an ideal. What actually happened was that the Hive-Kreegans failed to carry out Stage 1 swiftly and so the Gate-Kreegans took it upon themselves to carry it out in their place. The mechanism they eventually set upon was Armageddon's Blade.
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Postby XEL II » Oct 2 2010, 17:01

Oh, just stop this already.

And "get their power from" thing is just a statement about this planet being ruled by the Kreegan.
Last edited by XEL II on Oct 2 2010, 17:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Oct 2 2010, 17:10

XEL II wrote:And "get their power from" thing is just a statement about this planet being ruled by the Kreegan.


It is referring to a specific artifact known as the Angel's Blade which Gauldoth reasons could not be so effective AGAINST the demons unless it was closely linked to the realm from which the demons 'get their power'.

He reasons he could use such an object to open up a portal to the Fiery Realm and does so successfully.
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Postby XEL II » Oct 2 2010, 17:32

He does, indeed.

And that doesn't mean the Fiery Realm is something more than another Kregan-infested planet. And the worlds they conquer do not become part of the Fiery Realm.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Secret_Holder » Oct 2 2010, 17:59

I give up. We're arguing with a crazy person. ;|

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Oct 2 2010, 18:07

XEL II wrote:He does, indeed.

And that doesn't mean the Fiery Realm is something more than another Kregan-infested planet. And the worlds they conquer do not become part of the Fiery Realm.


That is a statement that is actually both true and false at the same time. :creative: :creative: :creative:

The demons he is referring to are on Axeoth, which is not the Fiery Realm. They can only draw power from the Fiery Realm, if the Fiery Realm is also connected to Axeoth. The Angel Blade weakens demons because it cuts off their access to the Fiery Realms energy.

Since we know that other planes exist (the plane of death for instance) the most reasonable explanation is that the Fiery Realm is just another one of those planes and the Fiery Realm *planet* is a kind of planet-sized portal to this realm. Gauldoth uses the magical connection *through* the Fiery Realm to access that planet.

When Stage 3 is complete, nothing remains of the planet but a very large portal to the Fiery Realm. If the Kreegans had conquered Axeoth and triggered Stage 3, Axeoth would have remained spatially separate but would have both been reduced to an uniform blob of lava.

That is what is so brilliantly evil about my concept of the Kreegans. Every Kreegan creature carries it's part in the greater destructive scheme, ignorant of it's true purpose.

The Hive-Kreegan dutifully carries out Stage 1, devouring all resources on the planet, unknowing that when Stage 1 is finished they will starve.

The Gate-Kreegan dutifully carries out Stage 2, expanding the network of Infernos through the planet, unknowing that when Stage 2 is finished the Infernos will burn.

The servants of Stage 3 (Efreet probably) dutifully carry out Stage 3, unknowing that when Stage 3 is finished, the Fiery Realm will find them an offense to it's fiery uniformity.

To theirs ends they may form the Cult of Baa, but in the end they are no different from the Cult of Baa and their fate should they succeed is to be no different. Anyway I've spent way too long on this forum, so I must retire to play Might and Magic VI.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Oct 2 2010, 19:10

From the Might and Magic VI opener, we know that nobody knows why they hate us. But at least they do hate us.

No, really. The Kreegan are an enemy of the Ancients, and hate everything to do with them. Listen to the opening narration in MMVI.

Screw the biology.

Screw the species.

It's all psychological. They travel to a world and do what they can to destroy it because they don't like the Ancients. That's it.

How's that for a theory? :)
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Postby tolich » Oct 3 2010, 6:17

They came from the depth of the Void. An Ancient enemy of an Ancient people. Noone knows why they hate us so, or why they have made war upon us.

Some say that struggle against the evil is the Mandate of Heaven. When their origins and purpose are shadowed in mystery, their plan is simple: they travel, they land, and then they conquer.

Now they are here in our world. To do to us what they have done in so many other realms. And they will do it...

Unless someone stops them.

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Postby Variol » Oct 3 2010, 9:04

The Kreegan were created by relatively creative people, which were trying to sell you a video game!

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Postby XEL II » Oct 3 2010, 9:21

Variol wrote:The Kreegan were created by relatively creative people, which were trying to sell you a video game!

/thread
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Postby Secret_Holder » Oct 3 2010, 22:41

Ok, I'll give this a go. (But I'll make it short)

Kreegan Purpose: Unknown, but probably biological, as in a struggle for resources (as the Oracle says)

Timeline:
First they land on Enroth asteroid-like ships. This is probably also true of those in Eofol.

On Enroth:
They land in Sweet Water and kill what's left of the human populous there.
They make an alliance with some humans, and create the Temple of Baa, who's purpose is to tear the Kingdom apart from the inside.
King Roland learns of the Devils and sets of with an army to see what's what.
After being ambushed King Roland flees to Castle Kriegspire where he is captured. He is later shipped off to Eofol.

Some time later the Heroes destroy The Hive, and kill the Devil Queen.
Enroth is saved.

On Antagarich:
The Kreegans land (probably) in Eofol, and drive the Half-ling population away, although some Eofolians (like Olema) join the foreign invaders.
They join up with the Nighon Overlords, establishing bases around the land.
When the Overlords have finished diggin their tunnels, they launch a double-strike on Erathia, and manage to capture Steadwick.
Some time later, Queen Catherine returns to Erathia and makes war upon this unholy alliance. She manages to reclaim Steadwick and secure Erathias borders.
Later the Lords of Harmondale travel to Eofol, and manage to kill the Kreegan king Xenofex and free Roland Ironfist.
Lucifer succeeds Xenofex and immediately launches an attack on Erathia.
Lucifer also sends Xeron to create Armageddon's Blade.
The Ironfists manage to invade Eofol, and Gelu kills Xeron, when he is returning to Eofol with the blade.
Gelu later kills Lucifer, and the Kreegans are defeated.

Catherine abdicates the throne, and the Regents depart for Enroth.

About the Inferno architecture:
It is nothing like that of the Hive, and therefore we can assume that the Kreegans got help from their human allies when building these Infernoes.

I may have missed something, but all in all, this seems right.

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Postby XEL II » Oct 4 2010, 7:02

Lucifer launched an all-out attack on Erathia later, in 1171.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Secret_Holder » Oct 4 2010, 11:03

After the destruction of AB?

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Postby XEL II » Oct 4 2010, 11:55

Um, no. He launched masive attack on Erathia, when Catherine invaded Eeofol seeking to dethrone Luvifer. Xeron was searching for Armageddon's Blade's components for many months by then.
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Postby Secret_Holder » Oct 4 2010, 13:36

Ok, now I see

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Oct 4 2010, 22:03

Secret_Holder wrote:Ok, I'll give this a go. (But I'll make it short)

Kreegan Purpose: Unknown, but probably biological, as in a struggle for resources (as the Oracle says)

Timeline:
First they land on Enroth asteroid-like ships. This is probably also true of those in Eofol.

On Enroth:
They land in Sweet Water and kill what's left of the human populous there.
They make an alliance with some humans, and create the Temple of Baa, who's purpose is to tear the Kingdom apart from the inside.
King Roland learns of the Devils and sets of with an army to see what's what.
After being ambushed King Roland flees to Castle Kriegspire where he is captured. He is later shipped off to Eofol.

Some time later the Heroes destroy The Hive, and kill the Devil Queen.
Enroth is saved.

On Antagarich:
The Kreegans land (probably) in Eofol, and drive the Half-ling population away, although some Eofolians (like Olema) join the foreign invaders.
They join up with the Nighon Overlords, establishing bases around the land.
When the Overlords have finished diggin their tunnels, they launch a double-strike on Erathia, and manage to capture Steadwick.
Some time later, Queen Catherine returns to Erathia and makes war upon this unholy alliance. She manages to reclaim Steadwick and secure Erathias borders.
Later the Lords of Harmondale travel to Eofol, and manage to kill the Kreegan king Xenofex and free Roland Ironfist.
Lucifer succeeds Xenofex and immediately launches an attack on Erathia.
Lucifer also sends Xeron to create Armageddon's Blade.
The Ironfists manage to invade Eofol, and Gelu kills Xeron, when he is returning to Eofol with the blade.
Gelu later kills Lucifer, and the Kreegans are defeated.

Catherine abdicates the throne, and the Regents depart for Enroth.

About the Inferno architecture:
It is nothing like that of the Hive, and therefore we can assume that the Kreegans got help from their human allies when building these Infernoes.

I may have missed something, but all in all, this seems right.


My version of the Kreegan time-line.

Kreegan Purpose: To turn all worlds into mere extensions of the plane from which they draw their power, known as the Fiery Realm. This is also the plane from which the Kreegans are bound, originated from and ultimately exist to serve. They do not consciously know however what their actual purpose is.

Their purpose is carried out in distinct stages, the servants of Stage 1 (Hive-Kreegans) have the purpose of consuming all life-forms that might interfere with Stage 2 and are equipped to this effect with an endless hunger for resources.

The servants of Stage 2 (Gate-Kreegans) have the purpose of creating a network of portal cities to the Fiery Realm called Infernos along all key points along the planets magical network in order to increase the degree to which it is infiltrated by the Fiery Realm. They are equipped to this effect with an endless desire for greater power.

With Stage 3, the Fiery Realm emerges consumes the planet, melting it into an endless (but sentient) sea of lava. Having done so, the planet is then used to send Hive-Kreegans into space and send Gate-Kreegans onto other planets using the Astrological connections between the magical nexus of both planets.

Timeline:
First the Hive-Kreegans land on Enroth in a asteroid-like ship. In the process of landing they create an explosion which unwittingly creates portals to the Fiery Realm, which allows the Gate-Kreegans to emerge. The latter do not take any major part in the war in Enroth however.

On Enroth:
They land near Sweet Water and kill what's left of the human populous there.
They make an alliance with some humans, and create the Temple of Baa, who's purpose is to tear the Kingdom apart from the inside.
King Roland learns of the Devils and sets of with an army to see what's what.
After being ambushed King Roland flees to Castle Kriegspire where he is captured. He is later shipped off to Eofol.

Some time later the Heroes destroy The Hive, and kill the Devil Queen.
Enroth is saved. Their Hive destroyed and Queen slain, the surviving Hive-Kreegans flee to Eofol in Antagarich.

On Antagarich:
The Kreegan refugees arrive (probably) in Eofol, and drive the Half-ling population away, although some Eofolians (like Olema) join the foreign invaders.
The Hive-Kreegan establish Colonies like Colony Zod in Antagarich, but the Gate-Kreegans realize that the Hive-Kreegans are too weak to carry out their function and so place themselves at the Hive-Kreegans disposal.
The Gate-Kreegans set up Inferno after Inferno in Eofol, eventually far outnumbering their masters and pushing them into the background, although Roland remains in the Hive-Kreegans hands.
They join up with the Nighon Overlords, establishing bases around the land.
When the Overlords have finished diggin their tunnels, they launch a double-strike on Erathia, and manage to capture Steadwick.
Some time later, Queen Catherine returns to Erathia and makes war upon this unholy alliance. She manages to reclaim Steadwick and secure Erathias borders.
Later the Lords of Harmondale travel to Eofol, and manage to kill the Kreegan king Xenofex and free Roland Ironfist. The Hive-Kreegans are wiped out around this time.
The Gate-Kreegan Lucifer succeeds Xenofex and immediately launches an attack on Erathia.
Lucifer also sends Xeron to create Armageddon's Blade, which is to carry out Stage 1 of the Kreegans purpose without the Hive-Kreegans, removing the worlds native inhabitants.
The Ironfists manage to invade Eofol, and Gelu kills Xeron, when he is returning to Eofol with the blade.
Gelu later kills Lucifer, and the Kreegans are defeated. The surviving Gate-Kreegans flee back into the portals from whence they came, so the Kreegans appear to have gone.

Back in Enroth:

With Roland and Catherine unable to return to Enroth and believed dead; Nicolai Ironfist becomes King of Enroth. The Kreegans sensing weakness emerge through the portals that were initially created with the Kreegan landing and rapidly establish themselves in Enroth once again.
They launch a fierce onslaught on Enroth, gaining control of large swathes of the continent.
The Reckoning happens, Nicolai Ironfist is knocked unconscious and finds himself in Chedian in Axeoth, believing that in his absence the Kreegans have conquered Enroth.

The majority of the Kreegans flee back through their Inferno-portals and end up in the Fiery Realm. Some however flee through the portals into Axeoth, the defenses left by the Ancients eliminating most of the forms of the Kreegans, leading to a common belief that the Kreegans had been wiped out in the Reckoning. Only the Imps, Devils and Cerberi are permitted to make it into Axeoth.

On Axeoth:
The Kreegans seek an alliance with the Necromancers in order the survive. With their aid they able to set up small summoning portals to the Fiery Realm.
New forms of Kreegan begin to appear; the Venom Spawn and the Ice Demon.
Gauldoth Half-Dead opens up a temporal portal to the Fiery Realm, by destroying the Angel Blade at a key point along Axeoth's magical nexus.

Secret_Holder wrote:About the Inferno architecture:
It is nothing like that of the Hive, and therefore we can assume that the Kreegans got help from their human allies when building these Infernoes.

I may have missed something, but all in all, this seems right.


Why aren't the Infernos at least called Colony X?
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Postby XEL II » Oct 5 2010, 9:57

Slayer, most of your version is 100% conjectual and made up. It has no canonical source to support it.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby vladimir-maestro » Oct 5 2010, 20:44

I know:

I know that there is a great war between 2 myth civilizations - Ancients and Creators. Noone knows why did they called like that, noone knows why they fight, and noone sure how do they look like! Maybe they are the same humans cause there are many reasons to think so...but MM5 brings us idea that they are humanoids dragon-like type cause of dragon pharao...but after all we got a reson to think that all of they are already-dead and are 100% cold machines that can mimic every life-form - so no matter how they looks like.
And I know that Creator civilization starts to losing against Ancients so they develop a new "weapon". Mankind called it "kreegans" or "devils" - we do not know how they are called properly cause invaders do not called themselves.
Main porpose of kreegans was assistance against Ancients. They were a troops and workers. Kreegans spreded in worlds and steal resources - belive me, wars of supreme civilizations require alot of resourec - so kreegans gather them. Also kreegan were seeking for the worlds that could bring some information about enemy. And ofcose they helps to fight against Ancients.
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I know it and this is enough for me. Any other theories could be created by mankind that faced kreegans or due to conspiracy policy of the kreegans themselves to corrupt and stun primitive races.
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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Oct 5 2010, 21:17

XEL II wrote:Slayer, most of your verison is 100% conjectual and made up. It has no canonical source to support it.


Much of it is based upon the collection of canonical sources I have access too. There is a quite canonical source (Might and Magic IX) that for instance the Kreegans were a threat in Enroth before the Reckoning. As there is that Nicolai became King, meaning that Roland and Catherine were unable to return to Enroth and believed dead.

I did not step over the line into conjecture at all there for instance.

What you are doing though XEL is way too easy, it's far easier to throw stuff away for being conjecture than it is to come up with a viable system that unifies all the sources so you can take them all into account.

And some of the sources aren't written stuff but what is obviously evident from the game itself; remember that this isn't a book but a series of games.

vladimir-maestro wrote:And I know that Creator civilization starts to losing against Ancients so they develop a new "weapon". Mankind called it "kreegans" or "devils" - we do not know how they are called properly cause invaders do not called themselves.

Main purpose of kreegans was assistance against Ancients. They were a troops and workers. Kreegans spreded in worlds and steal resources - belive me, wars of supreme civilizations require alot of resourec - so kreegans gather them. Also kreegan were seeking for the worlds that could bring some information about enemy. And ofcose they helps to fight against Ancients.


The 'Creators' are angry with the Ancients because they stole the materials to form their worlds, that is Lava from *their* Fiery Realm. As a result they want to take back what they believe rightfully belongs to them and melt everything into the Fiery Realm.

The 'Creators' are control of perhaps *are* the Fiery Realm (like spirit and body). They created the Kreegans as living weapons to further the objective of taking back what belongs to them. Namely everything that exists.
Working on tracking the locations of Heroes IV battles. Stage 6 of campaign map finished, all initial Heroes IV campaigns mapped.



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Postby Secret_Holder » Oct 5 2010, 23:19

The 'Creators' are angry with the Ancients because they stole the materials to form their worlds, that is Lava from *their* Fiery Realm. As a result they want to take back what they believe rightfully belongs to them and melt everything into the Fiery Realm.

The 'Creators' are control of perhaps *are* the Fiery Realm (like spirit and body). They created the Kreegans as living weapons to further the objective of taking back what belongs to them. Namely everything that exists.


This is all made up. ;|


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