What happened after the Kreegan Invasion?

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What happened after the Kreegan Invasion?

Postby Secret_Holder » Sep 19 2010, 0:46

So I was wondering, having just finished MM6. What happened after?
The Kreegans in Enroth were destroyed, and the cult of Baa scattered.

But as Enroth is never mentioned again, what happened?

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Postby Avonu » Sep 19 2010, 6:01

As it is stated in MM7 manual, Archibald sailed to Antagarich instead of taking throne as a "rightful" ruler. ;)
Cult of Baa (these acolytes which weren't killed during MM6) run to AvLee (were they soon also died).
Nicolai ruled Enroth until Reckoning and was mysterious transport to Chedian in eve of this event (as it is stated in MM9).
No more info about Enroth but I think after Baa and Kreegan demise it was peaceful place once again (until Reckoning of course).

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Sep 19 2010, 8:25

Whilst Queen Catherine was away fighting in Erathia, the Kreegans seized control of the Enrothian capital and forced Nicolai into a portal to Axeoth for some unknown reason.

They also probably killed Roland judging from Heroes III campaign. But Nicolai was just cast out of Enroth and sent to Axeoth. In Might and Magic IX he appears to want to join the circus.

Basically the Enroth story ends either in anarchy, a republic or Kreegan rule, not any happy outcome for the Ironfist dynasty.
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Postby Zenofex » Sep 19 2010, 10:04

Erm, is this in some other world? In the M&M world I know one part of the Kreegans (seemingly the larger part of the force that landed on the planet) travel to Antagarich under Zenofex/Xenofex and lay waste there and those which remain on Enroth are completely destroyed with the loss of the hive-ship and the Queen. After M&M VI Enroth is nearly abandoned as an important for the story site in favour of Antagarich and Jadame (and later Axeoth).

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Postby Avonu » Sep 19 2010, 10:12

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Whilst Queen Catherine was away fighting in Erathia, the Kreegans seized control of the Enrothian capital and forced Nicolai into a portal to Axeoth for some unknown reason.

They also probably killed Roland judging from Heroes III campaign. But Nicolai was just cast out of Enroth and sent to Axeoth. In Might and Magic IX he appears to want to join the circus.

Basically the Enroth story ends either in anarchy, a republic or Kreegan rule, not any happy outcome for the Ironfist dynasty.

I think you played another game with alternative story then we all. :P
If not, then read once more what Nicolai said about his past in MMIX. This time read it careful, word by word.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Sep 19 2010, 12:06

Zenofex wrote:Erm, is this in some other world? In the M&M world I know one part of the Kreegans (seemingly the larger part of the force that landed on the planet) travel to Antagarich under Zenofex/Xenofex and lay waste there and those which remain on Enroth are completely destroyed with the loss of the hive-ship and the Queen. After M&M VI Enroth is nearly abandoned as an important for the story site in favour of Antagarich and Jadame (and later Axeoth).


I actually played Might and Magic IX and researched the subject of what happened based upon what Nicolai Ironfist said about his origins BEFORE writing my post. I am not summoning it up purely from my imagination.

Basically from what I read the the Kreegans attack the capital of Enroth (Castle Ironfist?) there is an earthquake and then Nicolai Ironfist finds himself stuck in Axeoth and with no apparent way of getting back.

Image

"Through sources in Eeofol we know that Roland Ironfist cannot lead this fleet."

This is the Nighon dungeon overlords, the allies of the Kreegans talking about their allies in Eeofol (Kreegan country). I dimly remember that more stuff about Roland's elimination turns up later after the first Liberation campaign when Queen Catherine finds out about it.

To turn to all the evidence I have access to from Might and Magic IX about the subject of Nicolai.

Image

From this letter we can see that Roland was planning on traveling to Antagarich.

It turns out there is a little snag in my earlier logic assuming death, it appears that Roland was simply prevented from leaving Enroth by something the Kreegans know about (and thus are likely responsible for) and not slain since this is after the Restoration of Erathia campaign.

Nicolai is already King, so Roland has already died or been otherwise eliminated, probably by the Kreegans. It appears that he must have been slain before leaving to help Catherine deal with the Armageddon's blade and Lucifer. By the Kreegans or their human followers most likely.

Image

Nicolai is King, which means that Roland Ironfist is dead.

Image

The Devils have invaded Enroth.

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The Devils in question are the Kreegans.

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The Devils are established enough in Enroth for the King's time be taken up with fighting the devils.

Image

The Devils summoned up an Earthquake (this is a Heroes III spell), stormed the capital city and then cast him into Axeoth.


Now this took more than an hour to compile so please treat me with some more respect in future and stop automatically assuming that everything I say has no basis.
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Postby Secret_Holder » Sep 19 2010, 12:32

Having not played MMIX that much, I may be a bit unqualified for this:

It makes no sense, that Roland traveled by himself, (on his own accord) to Antagarich, as it's a well established fact, that Roland was captured by the Kreegans at Castle Kriegspire.
Then we, we must postulate, that Roland was killed in the destrction of the Hive or transported elsewhere. He was of course transported south to Eofol.

But on the fact of Rolands death. He and Catherine probably didn't make it home from Jadame, before the Reckoning, thus making Nicolai king.
But he does say that Kreegans attacked Ironfist. Was there a second Kreegan invasion, then?

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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 19 2010, 14:09

I don't know how anyone can say Roland died during his captivity?. Have you guys not played Heroes 3 and MM7 ?

Roland and Catherine died to the Reckoning (or at least noone ever heard of them after the Reckoning). After the fall of Xenofex and Lucifer Kreegan, Roland and Catherine left Enroth for Antagarich and then for Jadame. When they left, Nicolai became king of Enroth.

The Kreegans were already totally destroyed when MM8 began. Escaton wasn't allowed to undo the destruction of this universe despite the Kreegan menace being stopped.

The "cataclysm" Nicolai survived was the Reckoning, not a Kreegan invasion. He simply doesn't know what happened.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Sep 19 2010, 14:21

Nelgirith wrote:The "cataclysm" Nicolai survived was the Reckoning, not a Kreegan invasion. He simply doesn't know what happened.


Yea, this. Although I don't agree that there were really no Kreegan left in the word of Enroth during MM8 - after all, where did they come from in Axeoth? They couldn't have been there prior to the Reckoning, since they would have terraformed the planet already (as we see in the Death campaign of HoMM4).

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Postby Zenofex » Sep 19 2010, 14:43

Well, I admit that this caught my attention and maybe I'll play M&M IX after all. What has always seemed a bit inconsistent to me about the wide-spread explanation of the events is that Escaton claims that he has failed in the end of M&M VIII. It can be explained with a malfunction of his circuits or some built-in program that says "Once the Kreegans set foot on the world, blast it without thinking too much". But in the latter case the question why the Ancients will resort to such drastic measures - destroying entire planet despite the fact that the immediate threat is completely eliminated - remains. Maybe following their experience during the great war and The Silence, they were aware that an expeditionary force will be followed by a large-scale invasion - not just a few ships, but an entire colony loaded on space vessels. The Kreegans had had more than enough time to send a signal to some of their main forces about the discovery of Colony while wreaking havoc on two continents. Of course, these are just speculations.

after all, where did they come from in Axeoth? They couldn't have been there prior to the Reckoning, since they would have terraformed the planet already (as we see in the Death campaign of HoMM4).

During the same campaign it's mentioned that the destroyed planet is completely dead now - I can't remember whether Gauldoth claimed this himself or it was mention by the "Death god" that he was battling, but this was noted for sure. Also Gauldoth never even thought that the world where he took the Kreegans from was in fact Colony - for him this was some unknown, completely new "fiery realm".

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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 19 2010, 14:53

GreatEmerald wrote:Although I don't agree that there were really no Kreegan left in the word of Enroth during MM8 - after all, where did they come from in Axeoth?

Aye true, but most of them were eradicated after the H3 Armaggeddon's Blade. It was just bad phrasing :)
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Postby Secret_Holder » Sep 19 2010, 14:56

Yea, this. Although I don't agree that there were really no Kreegan left in the word of Enroth during MM8


Yeah, this is probably true. They couldn't have all been in the Hive, and as seeing as that dungeon respawns every week, I'd say that Kreegans breed like rabbits :D

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Postby Corlagon » Sep 19 2010, 15:04

Okay there is a high amount of confusion in here, so maybe this will clear up all the errors:

- 1162: The Kreegans invade Enroth. Roland and his troops attack them. Roland is defeated.
- 1163-65: Roland is transported to Antagarich and imprisoned in Colony Zod, within the Land of the Giants.
~ 1164-1165 (H3: SoD): The Kreegans ally with Sandro and assist in the attacks on Erathia. After Sandro is imprisoned, the Dungeon Overlords attack and subdue them for their own gain.
- 1165 (MM6): The Kreegans in Enroth are exterminated; the Hive is destroyed thanks to Archibald's spell.
- 1165-1167 (H3: RoE): The Kreegans approach Catherine and claim they have Roland captured, demanding one million gold pieces. Catherine interrogates the envoy, who claims Roland is imprisoned in the stronghold of Clan Kleesive. She refuses to pay and attacks Kleesive. However, Roland isn't there.
- 1168 (MM7): The Lords of Harmondale and Archibald attack the Land of the Giants, killing Xenofex and freeing Roland. Xenofex's ghost comes to Lucifer Kreegan in a vision and orders Armageddon's Blade to be constructed. Roland, Catherine and Nicolai have a "brief reunion". The Ironfists return to Antagarich to deal with the Kreegans (as explained in the MM9 letter). Roland is still worried that more Kreegans could assault Enroth at any moment, and thus orders Nicolai to stay vigilant of their menace.
- 1168-1171: Xeron searches Antagarich for the components to Armageddon's Blade. Conflux heroes continually steal the artifacts he needs.
- 1171 (H3: AB): Erathia and the Forest Guard declare war on Eeofol. Kreelah is captured. Gelu ends up with Armageddon's Blade.
- 1171: Escaton has captured the Elemental Lords and summons his Crystal in Ravenshore, Jadame.
- 1171-1172: The Kreegans are almost exterminated. The few that remain flee the planet. After this point, there are NO Kreegans left on the face of Enroth.
- 1172 (MM8): Escaton expresses regret that Enroth is to be blown up for no reason. He allows some adventurers to free the captive Elemental Lords. This leads to his own destruction, along with the Crystal.
- 1175 (H4 / MM9): Reckoning. The tremors destroy Castle Ironfist and Nicolai is apparently the only survivor to end up in Chedian (he still believes he's in Enroth). The Kreegans have NOT attacked Castle Ironfist because they aren't on the planet to do so.
Last edited by Corlagon on Sep 20 2010, 19:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Secret_Holder » Sep 19 2010, 15:16

But what were the king and queen doing in Jadame?
(Long time since I've played the game)

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Postby Corlagon » Sep 19 2010, 15:19

They were sailing back to Enroth, but were attacked by Regnan pirates and were forced to dock in Ravenshore. After that they stayed for a while to help with the Escaton crisis.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Sep 19 2010, 15:21

Secret_Holder wrote:Having not played MMIX that much, I may be a bit unqualified for this:

It makes no sense, that Roland traveled by himself, (on his own accord) to Antagarich, as it's a well established fact, that Roland was captured by the Kreegans at Castle Kriegspire.
Then we, we must postulate, that Roland was killed in the destrction of the Hive or transported elsewhere. He was of course transported south to Eofol.

But on the fact of Rolands death. He and Catherine probably didn't make it home from Jadame, before the Reckoning, thus making Nicolai king.
But he does say that Kreegans attacked Ironfist. Was there a second Kreegan invasion, then?


I haven't played Might and Magic that much, having recently got it and all. The only games I've played at all are Might and Magic VII and Might and Magic IX, although I've installed all of them.

Roland was planning to travel to Antagarich twice. The first time he was obviously prevented from doing so as in "from sources in Eeofol we know that Roland Ironfist cannot lead this fleet", but evidently survived.

From the letter to his son, we know that Roland planned to make a second trip to Antagarich, in the Armaggedon's blade era. He would be travelling to meet up with Queen Catherine.

He was obviously killed by Kreegans this time, because the Armageddon's blade era is some time BEFORE the end of the world. There is the whole war with King Kilgor to fight still.

Nelgirith wrote:I don't know how anyone can say Roland died during his captivity?. Have you guys not played Heroes 3 and MM7 ?

Roland and Catherine died to the Reckoning (or at least noone ever heard of them after the Reckoning). After the fall of Xenofex and Lucifer Kreegan, Roland and Catherine left Enroth for Antagarich and then for Jadame. When they left, Nicolai became king of Enroth.

The Kreegans were already totally destroyed when MM8 began. Escaton wasn't allowed to undo the destruction of this universe despite the Kreegan menace being stopped.

The "cataclysm" Nicolai survived was the Reckoning, not a Kreegan invasion. He simply doesn't know what happened.


Catherine Ironfist died due to the reckoning. Roland was killed by the Kreegans already.

Hence why it says KING Nicolai and not PRINCE Nicolai.

The cataclysm Nicolai survived was the Kreegans taking over the Enrothian Capital and casting him into Axeoth.

The reason why this is so is that there is nobody else with him. If he was unconscious he couldn't have been carried through the portals into the new world could he?

Great Emerald wrote:Yea, this. Although I don't agree that there were really no Kreegan left in the word of Enroth during MM8 - after all, where did they come from in Axeoth? They couldn't have been there prior to the Reckoning, since they would have terraformed the planet already (as we see in the Death campaign of HoMM4).


The Kreegans (in their demonic form) were not all destroyed. They cannot have been destroyed because Nicolai after Roland's death is left King of Enroth, fighting a war against them.


Corlagan wrote:- 1162: The Kreegans invade Enroth. Roland and his troops attack them. Roland is defeated.
- 1163-65: Roland is transported to Antagarich and imprisoned in Colony Zod, within the Land of the Giants.
~ 1164-1165 (H3: SoD): The Kreegans ally with Sandro and assist in the attacks on Erathia. After Sandro is imprisoned, the Dungeon Overlords attack and subdue them for their own gain.
- 1165 (MM6): The Kreegans in Enroth are exterminated; the Hive is destroyed thanks to Archibald's spell.
- 1165-1167 (H3: RoE): The Kreegans approach Catherine and claim they have Roland captured, demanding one million gold pieces. Catherine interrogates the envoy, who claims Roland is imprisoned in the stronghold of Clan Kleesive. She refuses to pay and attacks Kleesive. However, Roland isn't there.
- 1168 (MM7): The Lords of Harmondale and Archibald attack the Land of the Giants, killing Xenofex and freeing Roland. Xenofex's ghost comes to Lucifer Kreegan in a vision and orders Armageddon's Blade to be constructed. Roland, Catherine and Nicolai have a "brief reunion". The Ironfists return to Enroth to deal with the Kreegans (as explained in the MM9 letter). Roland is still worried that more Kreegans could assault Enroth at any moment, and thus orders Nicolai to stay vigilant of their menace.
- 1168-1171: Xeron searches Antagarich for the components to Armageddon's Blade. Conflux heroes continually steal the artifacts he needs.
- 1171 (H3: AB): Erathia and the Forest Guard declare war on Eeofol. Kreelah is captured. Gelu ends up with Armageddon's Blade.
- 1171: Escaton has captured the Elemental Lords and summons his Crystal in Ravenshore, Jadame.
- 1171-1172: The Kreegans are almost exterminated. The few that remain flee the planet. After this point, there are NO Kreegans left on the face of Enroth.
- 1172 (MM8): Escaton expresses regret that Enroth is to be blown up for no reason. He allows some adventurers to free the captive Elemental Lords. This leads to his own destruction, along with the Crystal.
- 1175 (H4 / MM9): Reckoning. The tremors destroy Castle Ironfist and Nicolai is apparently the only survivor to end up in Chedian (he still believes he's in Enroth). The Kreegans have NOT attacked Castle Ironfist because they aren't on the planet to do so.


The Kreegans obviously did survive, or else Nicolai couldn't have been fighting them before the destruction of Castle Ironfist could he? That even if the event he is reffering to is the Reckoning.

The alien form of the Kreegans could not have survived the destruction of the Kreegan hive. But the demonic forms, well they aren't hive based.

Thus Archibald's spell didn't destroy all the Kreegans in Enroth. It merely stopped more of the alien Kreegans from turning up perhaps. Those already there would already have been in the process of shifting into the demonic Kreegan beings of Heroes of Might and Magic.

But the high-tech 'alien' Kreegans I agree are indeed extinct, which gave the inhabitants of Colony (is that what the Heroes III world is called?) a fighting chance.

But those who had already landed and begun the process of shifting to be the devils of the world they had just invaded, they continued to survive and eventually crawled through the portals like everyone else into Axeoth to escape the Reckoning.
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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 19 2010, 16:03

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Roland was killed by the Kreegans already.

Hence why it says KING Nicolai and not PRINCE Nicolai.

Please, stop making up your version of the story. Nicolai was left in charge of Enroth (thus made King) when Roland and Catherine left for Jadame. Roland was alive in MM8.

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:The Kreegans obviously did survive, or else Nicolai couldn't have been fighting them before the destruction of Castle Ironfist could he? That even if the event he is reffering to is the Reckoning.

What part of "it was the Reckoning" did you not understand ?

The Kreegans were totally destroyed when MM8 happened since Escaton wanted to stop the destruction. His orders were to destroy any world that couldn't get rid of the Kreegans. He already activated the destruction of this world (causing the apparition of the Confluxes) when the Kreegans got eradicated. As he wasn't allowed to stop the process, he helped the heroes by telling them how to save their world. If any Kreegan had survived, Escaton wouldn't have intervened and would just have let the world explode.

The Reckoning just got everyone by surprise since it wasn't expected. Nicolai doesn't know what exactly happened, he only supposes demons attacked the capital city - which wasn't the case.

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Postby Secret_Holder » Sep 19 2010, 16:14

The cataclysm Nicolai survived was the Kreegans taking over the Enrothian Capital and casting him into Axeoth.

The reason why this is so is that there is nobody else with him. If he was unconscious he couldn't have been carried through the portals into the new world could he?


Firstly, why would the Kreegans rather "throw" him into Axeoth than kill him outright.
Secondly, yes he could have escaped to Axeoth if he was unconscious. The HoMMIV intro shows Angels helping people to the portals. He wa almost certainly saved by angels.

Lastly, the earthquake wasn't a spell, it was the end of the world, caused by the Sword of Frost and Armageddon's Blade clashing.

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Postby Avonu » Sep 19 2010, 16:28

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:From this letter we can see that Roland was planning on traveling to Antagarich.

This letter is opposite to all what we known from MM6-8 and H3. I suggest you to not take it as 100% true.

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Nicolai is already King, so Roland has already died or been otherwise eliminated, probably by the Kreegans. It appears that he must have been slain before leaving to help Catherine deal with the Armageddon's blade and Lucifer. By the Kreegans or their human followers most likely.

Roland and Catherine were off on Enroth for about 10 years. When Catherine left Castle Ironfist, Nicolai was 10 years old, now he is in his twenties. He never saw his parents again - they were lost after they left Jadame.
See below why.

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Nicolai is King, which means that Roland Ironfist is dead.

Nicolas was named king because Roland was missing in 1162 A.S. and pressumed dead (but in fact he was captive by Kreegans on Antagarich).

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:The Devils are established enough in Enroth for the King's time be taken up with fighting the devils.

As i said, read careful. He spoke only about talking with his general about Kreegan problem. Not about war with Kreegans or they assault on castle.
Besides if you look on letter from Roland, you can guess (right or wrong - I don't know) that this Devil problem is Armageddon's Blade.

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:The Devils summoned up an Earthquake (this is a Heroes III spell), stormed the capital city and then cast him into Axeoth.

Nope. It is what he thinks but if you played HIV you should know what really happened - earthquakes and portal to another realm - it's description of HIV intro (Reckoning).

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:The only games I've played at all are Might and Magic VII and Might and Magic IX, although I've installed all of them.

No more questions. Play MM6 and MM8 first and then you see how wrong you were in many cases. And read MM6 manual - there are letters from Roland to Nicolai before he was captured by Kreegans. These texts are also in Celestial Heavens site MM History section (not on forum).

Corlagon wrote:- 1168 (MM7): The Lords of Harmondale and Archibald attack the Land of the Giants, killing Xenofex and freeing Roland. Xenofex's ghost comes to Lucifer Kreegan in a vision and orders Armageddon's Blade to be constructed. Roland, Catherine and Nicolai have a "brief reunion". The Ironfists return to Enroth to deal with the Kreegans (as explained in the MM9 letter). Roland is still worried that more Kreegans could assault Enroth at any moment, and thus orders Nicolai to stay vigilant of their menace.

Nice that you want to fix what is wrong with MMIX Roland's letter but you are incorrect. In MM8 Roland said he didn't see Nicolai from a long time and the last time when he saw him, Nicolai was a boy and now he is a man. If he would returned in 1168 A.S. Nicolai should be about 13-14 years old - and I don't think you could call him a boy.
Catherine and Roland didn't go back to Enroth and next go to Antagarich once again to fight Lucifer - they were in Erathia all time between H3:RoE/MM7 and end of Armageddon's Blade campaign. After they defeated Kreegans and left succession over Gryphonheart throne in hands of Morgan Kendal, they sailed back to Enroth and visited Jadame by the way.

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Postby Gaidal Cain » Sep 19 2010, 16:42

GreatEmerald wrote:Although I don't agree that there were really no Kreegan left in the word of Enroth during MM8 - after all, where did they come from in Axeoth?


I'm a bit rusty on this, but has any of the demons in Axeoth ever been called Kreegan? We know for a fact that not all Inferno troops are Kreegan, as there were plenty of Gogs runnig around in Ironsand desert.
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