Knight v. Monk

[Macros the Black]

Okay, so in my current playthrough of the game I have both a Knight and a Monk in my party. Since I can remember there being some discussion about which of the two is better, I'll post here what I've noticed so far as I'm playing the game.

Now I don't know much about the mechanics of the game or any particular bugs, but I think I can get a safe estimate of how powerful my characters are by watching them fight and looking at the numbers. Theoretical discussion is one thing, but in practice it sometimes goes a little different then you might think..

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1. The Monk's high speed attribute allows him to have almost as much armor class as the knight, even though he's not wearing as good chest armor.

2. You can find a pretty good staff early in the game (Barrow Downs, I think). This will help your monk to be on par with the Knight in terms of damage output early on.

3. The Monk has by far the fastest promotion quest in the game. This means that you will have an Initiate way earlier than a Cavalier. Because of this, there's a while in the game where the Monk has alot more hit points than the knight.

4. The Monk is also more accurate and faster than the Knight, which means he's better at ranged combat: he shoots more arrows, and hits more often. These factors make him the third best archer, right after the Archer (1st place) and Ranger (2nd place).

5. While the Monk can only get very low healing skills, the only thing you ever want from a backup healer is for him to cast Heal. And the spell Heal itself, doesn't benefit all that much from gaining a rank. Expert level 10 body magic heals for 35, grandmaster heals for 55. That's only 20 hit points difference, so don't hesitate to put some extra points into Body Magic even if he can't master or grandmaster it.

6. At around the point in time that you will promote your knight to cavalier, he starts to do about double the damage the Monk does in melee. The Monks accuracy and speed don't match up, especially considering that accuracy isn't a very big deal anymore now thanks to spells like Bless and Fate. The Knight's armor class will also be about double the Monk's, and any physical damage inflicted upon him is halved because of plate mastery.. By promoting your knight, his hit points will be equal with the Monk's hit points. So all in all, the Knight will be a more powerful of a fighter, but the Monk has better ranged skills and is a backup healer. Imo they're about equal at this point, with the Knight having a medium advantage.

7. The Knight's repair item skill is simply better than the Monk's learning skill, unless you have a paladin in your party. For most of the game you'll be at expert learning, and that doesn't make a big difference. I got my Monk up to skill level 10 asap, but the master teacher can't be reached until late in the game. Repair Item on the other hand is always useful.

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Right now I'm at the point in the game where I've done all the areas before going to Nighon, and I'm about to choose a new arbiter. I think from this point on, the Knight will start to outshine the Monk more and more. I'll post here with updates as I note more about them.

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My Knight and Monk both have Armsmaster and Body Building mastered at around the same time.
The Monk has leather and staff mastered. Why not start with unarmed and dodge? Because 10 AC leather armor + master level leather skill gives more AC than master level dodge skill. Same for the staff v. unarmed.
The Knight has plate (duh) and sword mastered. Why not spear? Because two swords do more damage than one spear, and you can wear a shield with your sword when you aren't master yet. I'm working on getting spear mastered though, so soon he'll wear both (which I assume will make his damage output far outshine anything the Monk could do until he's promoted).

[GrayFace]

All classes have equal opportunities for Speed, Accuracy and other attributes. Knight is a better shooter than Monk because he's got expert Bow skill. The promotion quest for Knight isn't much harder AFAIR.

[Macros the Black]

Doh! The sad part is I knew that but somehow thought Knight=might / Monk=speed
Must be the attributes on rings that give my monk alot more speed and accuracy, and the knight more might. Also with any barrels I give might to the Knight and Speed to the Monk.

Anyway, the Knight and Monk still seem to be about equal in AC at the start of the game (until you start finding +54 AC plate armors).

As for the promotion quest, the Knight's promotion isn't much harder but the Monk's promotion is given in Harmondale and completed in the Barrows (without even having to return to Harmondale to be promoted). Thus, if you follow the most obvious sequence (Harmondale -> Barrow Downs -> Bracada -> Turalean Forest/Erathia) you will completely the Monk's promotion quest alot earlier.

Although you could visit Erathia to pick up the Knight's promotion quest before going to the Barrows, you would still have to return to the quest giver also.
Harmondale->Erathia->Harmondale->Barrow Downs->Harmondale->Erathia->Bracada makes a lot less sense.

[tolich]

The easiest promotions are for Ranger: to meet Fairy King, to rob Mercenary Guild and to collect bounties.

[Variol]

..too bad the Ranger is completely useless though.

[Sure Valla]

..too bad the Ranger is completely useless though.

Playing with it rules, its a great challenge!

[GrayFace]

and to collect bounties.

Easy?!

[Macros the Black]

So, I gave my Archer mastery of the Spear and he did more damage than the Monk If Archers and Paladins are better melee fighters than Monks, why would you ever want to have a Monk in your team except for a challenge?

Anyway.. after getting everyone promoted, the Monk finally catches up to the Knight in damage output at around the time he has GM Staff and M Unarmed. After spending most of the game in the Knight's shadow, he's even doing a little more damage now.. yay!
Of course, this will all change with GM Armsmaster, but to be fair by the time we'll find the GM Armsmaster trainer we'll have blasters anyway (he lives in Eofol).

As for backup healing, it's come in handy a few times during the game, but healing potions would have been just as helpful. His skills are too lousy to rely on anything except just having him cast the spell "Heal".. If you're going Dark it would be even less helpful.

..too bad the Ranger is completely useless though.

Yeah, I think the Ranger should get Bow grandmastery instead of the Archer (just rename the Archer to Battlemage or something). Then he'd be more useful, provided the master and grandmaster bow teachers aren't hidden away in the most remote locations...
Either that or GM Alchemy.

[tolich]

and to collect bounties.

Easy?!

Yes, I usually collect this sum very fast, even before being asked to choose Light or Dark.

[Macros the Black]

and to collect bounties.

Easy?!

Yes, I usually collect this sum very fast, even before being asked to choose Light or Dark.

I don't know how you do it man, I've never even completed that quest lol. In fact, I've never even gotten a single bounty done. It's just too random, I'll be in Harmondale and they'll ask me to kill a tornado, or if I'm in Deyja they ask me to kill a spider... When I've basically already killed every spider in the game.
Every time I go to a town I usually do check the town hall just in case there's a convenient bounty to accomplish, but there never is.. It's always something I've already killed or can't get to before the end of the month :/

[GreatEmerald]

Wait, there is a bounty quest in MM7?!

[Variol]

checks strategy guide....

yup!
Collect 10k in bounties for the Hunter Promo quest!

since I never take a Ranger...

[GreatEmerald]

And I thought that was only in MM8 :\ Where do you start that quest?

[Macros the Black]

And I thought that was only in MM8 :\ Where do you start that quest?

Tularean Forest after choosing dark side. He's near the magic item shop (the shop with the hand symbol) on the planks iirc.

Of course, this quest probably gets easier if you have town portal, but that would mean you'd have to visit Nighon before doing this one.. which makes it the second last promotion quest on the dark side (high druid -> warlock being the last) you can complete.

And if you have a Ranger in your party, you better believe that you want to get him promoted asap so he can a little less useless.

All in all, if I ever choose a Ranger in a dark path playthrough I'll make sure to keep any town portal scrolls I can find..

[GrayFace]

Yes, I usually collect this sum very fast, even before being asked to choose Light or Dark.

Reloading until I'm offered the right monster isn't easy for me, but in terms of time you are right.

[Macros the Black]

Yes, I usually collect this sum very fast, even before being asked to choose Light or Dark.

Reloading until I'm offered the right monster isn't easy for me, but in terms of time you are right.

Sonova... I hadn't even thought of that. Although I'd never use that trick..

[Variol]

I think you pretty much have to use the reload "trick"; for lack of a better word.

It would be really nice if there were 3 different bounties per month. Weak, medium and hard maybe?

[GreatEmerald]

Tularean Forest after choosing dark side. He's near the magic item shop (the shop with the hand symbol) on the planks iirc.

Oh, no wonder I have never done this quest. I never played the Dark path to make sure I play it blind for my YouTube playthrough

[Sure Valla]

I never played the Dark path to make sure I play it blind for my YouTube playthrough

you never played Path of Dark?

[GreatEmerald]

Correct But I have seen all those cutscenes and whatnot.