Imagine your perfect M&M game

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).
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Macros the Black
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Unread postby Macros the Black » 18 Nov 2009, 00:57

@- GreatEmerald:
Yes, I'd forgotten about multiplayer. Back with MM6 they were already thinking about making a multiplayer game with the same engine where you could import your MM6 party and play online against/with other players. In the present day and age, for a game like this, some multiplayer and/or modding options are certainly needed to get enough sales. But I have thought about this before and arrived at mostly the same conclusions as you did - arena fighting, pvp, each player controlling a party member... One question this raises, however, is will this be turn-based or realtime? Obviously you cannot simply switch between the two as you are playing multiplayer. But some players may prefer realtime and others may prefer turn-based. Maybe the host can choose this when creating a game?
koval321 wrote:in tavern you meet many random peoples who may join to team (similar to Ishar and MM8 system, but they always have the same level as you)
My problem with games that work this way instead of you forming your team at the beginning of the game and sticking with it is kind of the same as my problem with adjustable difficulty settings... You don't live with the consequences of your actions, which - speaking in extremes - dulls down the challenge of a game. If you can simply choose which party member to take with you, you don't feel like you're building out a team. Instead, you're building out possibilities... Possible members to put in your party. When you encounter something you can't beat, you switch party members.. this is not right. I think the party should have it's weaknesses and strengths, and certain dungeons can be more or less difficult depending on what party members you chose to take with you. Another concern is that it reduces replayability.. If you can take any party member at any point in the game, then there's no point in trying again with a different party is there? You've likely already played each possible combination in the first play-through.
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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koval321
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Unread postby koval321 » 19 Nov 2009, 12:54

.. If you can take any party member at any point in the game, then there's no point in trying again with a different party is there?
But its nothing new, it was in mm 3-5. In tavern you may hire anybody want or create there new characters. Many elements from old version was much better from later games, and in perfect mm they should come back.

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 19 Nov 2009, 22:27

Macros, I guess the host should be able to set it for other team members during the game. Or just make it all turn-based, as in good ol' MM3 times. After all, MM and HoMM series were always about turn-based strategy ;)

Koval, it was a little different than that, since when you create a party member in the tavern, he starts in level 1, so nobody wants to take it anyway. While what you are suggesting is getting high level party members.

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koval321
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Unread postby koval321 » 20 Nov 2009, 08:06

when you create a party member in the tavern, he starts in level 1, so nobody wants to take it anyway.
This option is good but useless, so why have something which nobody use? Its like give peoples one ton of gold but also decrease its value to zero. So to make it more sense created character must be on level fit to rest of team. Ok but player want to controll everything so he may start in amount of skillpoints depend on level, or click generate random character.

High difficulty game level "realistic" could remove resurrection and autosave game after death. This method exist in most roguelike games. Ok begining character will back to life but then you need go to tavern and take new team.

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 24 Nov 2009, 15:11

Level 1 characters aren't entirely useless, mind you. If one or more of your party members get eradicated, yet you don't have enough money to pay for resurrection, then you go with the new level 1 character.

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Unread postby Talin_Trollbane » 24 Nov 2009, 16:05

GreatEmerald wrote:Level 1 characters aren't entirely useless, mind you. If one or more of your party members get eradicated, yet you don't have enough money to pay for resurrection, then you go with the new level 1 character.
and usually they come with starting equipment, that can be looted and sold for extra cash.
Ultima, Elder Scrolls and Might and Magic Veteran.

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koval321
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Unread postby koval321 » 25 Nov 2009, 12:39

and usually they come with starting equipment, that can be looted and sold for extra cash.
It was possible in Ishar to hire member for cash and then dismiss, but as i known in MM start equipment is worthless.

Anyway ideas for begining equipment:
-branch or stick lay near trees (Dungeon Master 2)
-rocks, player can use this and more throwing weapons
-shovel, rake, fork (Dungeon Siege)
-bucket, pot as helm (Divine Divinity)

Player start as peasant with very primitive weapons and clothes worth 1-5 coins.

Ok and later he may find in tavern some experienced heroes with good stuff, but you cant seel it, the same like items you steal from shop.

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Alan06
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Unread postby Alan06 » 18 Dec 2009, 08:19

the perfect mm for me will be a mm6 +:
-races like in mm7 + vampire, minotaur and troll
-ID monster (same as mm7 and mm8, the screen when you press right click in a monster)
-GM level for skills
-skill level matching with class (ex. warrior= sword GM, paladin= sword M)
-all magics are usefull (ex. dispel magic is useless in mm6)
-items stat requeriments (ex. for using a bow you need x might)
-classes like in mm7
-NO BLASTERS!
-stronger bosses (the devil queen in mm6 is quite easy, it's like a devil king with 1300hp)

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 18 Dec 2009, 12:47

Alan06 wrote:-NO BLASTERS!
No blasters = no tradition and loss of game style. Unless, of course, it's replaced with something equally sci-fi.

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Unread postby Konfuzius » 18 Dec 2009, 17:00

My perfect MM should have:
- Hiring System
- Good story
- Many different chars, and some unique you have to find
- good and huge dungeons (like in MM6)
- kickass monsters
- Better spell balance
- Good (and many) quests
- no black/white story
- at least 2 promotions
- Strong bosses
- Many areas
- Damn hard...
- ... but with about 7 chars.
- Many items and artifacts/relict
- NO ARTIFACT/RELICT LIMIT!
- A easier way to become an expert/master/grandmaster ( I hate searching)

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Alan06
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Unread postby Alan06 » 18 Dec 2009, 18:10

GreatEmerald wrote:
Alan06 wrote:-NO BLASTERS!
No blasters = no tradition and loss of game style. Unless, of course, it's replaced with something equally sci-fi.
oh yes of course.. okey slower blasters (? haha

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 18 Dec 2009, 19:25

Konfuzius wrote:- NO ARTIFACT/RELICT LIMIT!
There is one?
Alan06 wrote:oh yes of course.. okey slower blasters (? haha
If you think about it, tough, Blasters/Phasers are rayguns, so they shouldn't shoot projectiles at all and act more like a wand of lightning.

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Unread postby Avonu » 18 Dec 2009, 21:32

GreatEmerald wrote:
Konfuzius wrote:- NO ARTIFACT/RELICT LIMIT!
There is one?
Question:What's multilooting everybody keeps talking about?

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 18 Dec 2009, 22:06

Oh, that limit. I'd say it would be the best to remove multilooting altogether or increase the limit to 1-2 since it's not the way you're meant to get items.

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Macros the Black
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Unread postby Macros the Black » 21 Dec 2009, 01:45

Certain spells should have hidden effects related to physics... Like if you cast an electrical spell on/in a body of water, everything nearby in the water should get a jolt, including yourself.
Fire spells should be useless underwater, and certain air spells as well (like Implosion).

Something that bugged me about some Might and Magic games is "earth damage". What the heck is that? Seriously I mean, I can understand getting burned by fire or chilled by cold, or fried by electricity... And spirit and mind magic should definately have their own types of damage mainly because I can see how enemies that would have alot of willpower would be resistant to mind magic, or how ghostly enemies would be resistant to anything but spirit magic.... But "earth damage"? I think if you hurl a boulder at someone they're not going to say "oh no now I've got sand in my eyes, it burns!". They're going to say "ow, the physical impact of that thing really hurt me!". And if you hurl a boulder at an earth elemental he's not going to go "hey I'm an earth elemental, I'll just fuse with that"... Both the boulder and the earth elemental are made of hard material, so the result would obviously be a clash. If anything, earth elementals should be vulnerable to such a thing... So that's why earth magic should simply inflict physical damage, not "earth damage". The same goes for body magic... there's no such thing as "body damage". So body magic should just do poison damage or physical damage.

I also think the main statistics should each give one resistance type. Because for instance, a sorcerer should obviously be more resistant to mind based attacks, so then it makes sense to make his statistic (intelligence, although I think a better name for it is willpower) give him extra mind resistance. And warriors would be more resistant to poison since endurance gives poison resistance naturally. Etc.
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 21 Dec 2009, 16:21

Macros the Black wrote:And if you hurl a boulder at an earth elemental he's not going to go "hey I'm an earth elemental, I'll just fuse with that"... Both the boulder and the earth elemental are made of hard material
Actually, no. It would fuse. Earth elementals are made of mud, not rock, that's why they are resistant to earth damage, though I guess they should have ooze-type resistance.

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Macros the Black
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Unread postby Macros the Black » 22 Dec 2009, 06:14

GreatEmerald wrote:
Macros the Black wrote:And if you hurl a boulder at an earth elemental he's not going to go "hey I'm an earth elemental, I'll just fuse with that"... Both the boulder and the earth elemental are made of hard material
Actually, no. It would fuse. Earth elementals are made of mud, not rock, that's why they are resistant to earth damage, though I guess they should have ooze-type resistance.
I wonder how you know this, but indeed if that is the case, then Earth Elementals would be resistant to any type of physical damage, not just earth related ones... And they should thus have the same kind of immunity as oozes. Although that might be a bit annoying... Oozes are enemies you can usually just skip, but earth elementals are usually found in dungeons you háve to complete.
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 22 Dec 2009, 17:16

It's clearly visible in HoMM3 and the sound effects there also resemble mud. Its upgrade, Magma Elemental, is also non-solid.
Though HoMM4 is a completely different story...

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koval321
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Unread postby koval321 » 24 Dec 2009, 14:25

Statistisc should be made in percent, for example 100% strenght, resistance, armor, chances to hit. Already its weird.

Blasters was ok, but when later near game end. But hey as i remember everything happend on earth so maybe travell to other planet? This way game could be twice larger, because whole new world to explore. Or put it beyond limits like Captive which as i heard have unlimited adventures (well probably boring/crazy) only possible when worlds could be generated randomly. Thats why am fan of idea about totally customize and randomize.

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Macros the Black
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Unread postby Macros the Black » 24 Dec 2009, 15:40

GreatEmerald wrote:It's clearly visible in HoMM3 and the sound effects there also resemble mud. Its upgrade, Magma Elemental, is also non-solid.
Though HoMM4 is a completely different story...
Well HoMM4 is not in Enroth so it doesn't matter :)
It's just that they looked like rock to me in MM6 and 8 (can't remember if there were even earth elementals at all in MM7).
koval321 wrote:Statistisc should be made in percent, for example 100% strenght, resistance, armor, chances to hit. Already its weird.
There's no such thing as a 100% strength lol... 100% chance to hit I can imagine, but I don't think it would be very good gameplay. I remember it was like this in Morrowind and that system was so easy to abuse it was rediculous.
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.


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