Might & Magic Open Source Project

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Holloweyee
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Might & Magic Open Source Project

Postby Holloweyee » Sep 23 2009, 11:44

Hi my name is Christer iam 19 years old and live in Sweden. I want to introduce you to a new open source project I want to start.

The idea is to create a open source might and magic game. It wont be a whole game with like 50 quest and hundreds of weapons. Only the functions and everything that the original game have. So basically a test map with some houses and stuff just so the modder can start out with something. It will be a exact a copy of the original game but with a few improvements.

Improvements:
- Graphics (support for high resolutions also DirectX9 & OpenGL).
- Multi platform (supporting at least Linux & Windows).
- It should have a basic script language(like LUA or Python).
- The game should be easy to modify.

Note that it will use the basic 2d environment and units like the original game. I want this project it to be open source for 2 main reasons. The first reason is that the speed of the development will increase and everyone can take a part of the project if they want to. My second reason are that people can make their mods more unique.

The game should be written in C++ but iam not exactly sure what 3d engine it will use yet.

So if you want to join the team you should know at least the basics of c++ programming. Are you interested to help?

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Postby Kristo » Sep 23 2009, 12:17

Not to discourage you, but there is already a fan-made Might and Magic X in progress, as well as the (defunct, I think) Might and Magic Tribute. Perhaps your skills would be better used if you joined one of those projects instead of starting your own from scratch.
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Postby Holloweyee » Sep 23 2009, 12:33

None of them are really like this project. Might and Magic X is just a mod for the original game. Might and Magic Tribute do some stuff wrong like they are trying to make too much like a new game. I want to make like a exact copy of M&M 6-8 but with some improvements, open source and easy to modify which will result in more Might and magic mods.

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Postby darknessfood » Sep 23 2009, 12:58

Holloweyee wrote:None of them are really like this project. Might and Magic X is just a mod for the original game. Might and Magic Tribute do some stuff wrong like they are trying to make too much like a new game. I want to make like a exact copy of M&M 6-8 but with some improvements, open source and easy to modify which will result in more Might and magic mods.


Don't start to critisize other peoples projects, the people are woring hard on it so gie them some respect. Good luck with your project...
You can either agree with me, or be wrong...

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Postby Holloweyee » Sep 23 2009, 13:01

darknessfood wrote:
Holloweyee wrote:None of them are really like this project. Might and Magic X is just a mod for the original game. Might and Magic Tribute do some stuff wrong like they are trying to make too much like a new game. I want to make like a exact copy of M&M 6-8 but with some improvements, open source and easy to modify which will result in more Might and magic mods.


Don't start to critisize other peoples projects, the people are woring hard on it so gie them some respect. Good luck with your project...


Might and Magic tribute is working on a newer style. Personaly i dont like it too much but its a great great great project and iam looking forward to play it.

Might and Magic X is my favorite project. I love it!

I like both projects very much! Its just my project is diffrent from them both in a good and bad way.

I want to open up the possibilities for modding with more advanced stuff and also easy to get started. So more people can start making mods for Might and Magic(my favorite game of all time).

Sorry for my bad English.

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Postby kognefaure » Sep 23 2009, 13:45

Your idea sounds intriguing. As fan of the Might and magic series and admirer of the open-source movement, I find it very interesting. Would help if I had some C++ knowledge!

However I would need some light on a few points:

Only the functions and everything that the original game have. So basically a test map with some houses and stuff just so the modder can start out with something. It will be a exact a copy of the original game but with a few improvements.


This seems contradictory to me. Do you aim to create a basis only so that modders have an opportunity to start their own projects, or a full new game of your own?

Note that it will use the basic 2d environment and units like the original game.


Maybe I don't know the exact meaning of "2D environment", but you say your idea is to make a copy of M&M 6-8, which are all entirely three-dimensional.

Thanks, and good luck for your project!

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Postby arturchix » Sep 23 2009, 13:46

Why do you guys always start with so big and ambitious projects when the chances to finish it are very slim to say the least? Like Kristo said, not to discourage you, you're probably very motivated at the moment but you have to realize 99% of ambitious fan projects meet a dead end and because it was too ambitious in the first place.

You could first test your skills and patience by starting with something smaller like modding MM6-MM8 to certain extent. There's plenty of stuff to do - for example, add Vori region in MM7 and think of a cool way to reach it (there were some cool ideas), help Bones from the TELP tavern to finish the 1.4 patch for MM9 or add some new stuff in MM8 like blasters and quests associated to it. The Might and Magic community would very much appreciate it.

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Postby Holloweyee » Sep 23 2009, 13:55

This seems contradictory to me. Do you aim to create a basis only so that modders have an opportunity to start their own projects, or a full new game of your own?

Like a project for the modders.


Maybe I don't know the exact meaning of "2D environment", but you say your idea is to make a copy of M&M 6-8, which are all entirely three-dimensional.

I meen the sprites like trees, bushes the monsters are plain 2d but the landscape is 3d just like the original game.

Why do you guys always start with so big and ambitious projects when the chances to finish it are very slim to say the least? Like Kristo said, not to discourage you, you're probably very motivated at the moment but you have to realize 99% of ambitious fan projects meet a dead end and because it was too ambitious in the first place.

You could first test your skills and patience by starting with something smaller like modding MM6-MM8 to certain extent. There's plenty of stuff to do - for example, add Vori region in MM7 and think of a cool way to reach it (there were some cool ideas), help Bones from the TELP tavern to finish the 1.4 patch for MM9 or add some new stuff in MM8 like blasters and quests associated to it. The Might and Magic community would very much appreciate it.


I have already made games before both 2d and 3d games. And I feel like to start a large project. This project is for learning the language better then I do. This is not a rush project I want to take the time it need.
I don't feel to work alone thats why I made this topic.

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Postby arturchix » Sep 23 2009, 14:03

Well, I can only wish you good luck then - please keep us posted of the progress.

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Postby kognefaure » Sep 23 2009, 14:22

Why do you guys always start with so big and ambitious projects when the chances to finish it are very slim to say the least? Like Kristo said, not to discourage you, you're probably very motivated at the moment but you have to realize 99% of ambitious fan projects meet a dead end and because it was too ambitious in the first place.


As Holloweyee clarified, the idea is to make a basis for the modders. I don't know the amount of programming-work required for the building of an proper engine, but it doesn't sound like a "big and ambitious" project.

I think it's the first time I read about an Open-source Might and magic project. As Holloweyee said too, the Open-source way allow a quite speedy development. The Might and magic community being relatively small, his idea is not bad.

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Postby Lord13 » Sep 23 2009, 14:38

Hi, the main idea of this project is very nice. I support the
fact that you start with hight goals, in the end at a fun project
matters more the "journey" and the creativity time you spend
for all the MnM funs, and if you will manage it time will tell ;)
Btw, if you search MMT forums you will find a very good editor
that Oren created, and if I understand corectly has many similarities
with your idea(is not the same thought), maybe there you can
ask for ideas,support etc ;) Anyway, good luck and we wait for
more updates :-D

p.s. Is so good see more and more fun projects around our
favorite game. I do not care if in the end all of these will
reach their goals, the fact that people sacrifice time and effort
for this is already so great! Keep it up :)
Every man dies...
Every beast dies...
Only heroes live forever!

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Postby Corlagon » Sep 23 2009, 15:04

You could first test your skills and patience by starting with something smaller like modding MM6-MM8 to certain extent. There's plenty of stuff to do - for example, add Vori region in MM7 and think of a cool way to reach it (there were some cool ideas), help Bones from the TELP tavern to finish the 1.4 patch for MM9 or add some new stuff in MM8 like blasters and quests associated to it. The Might and Magic community would very much appreciate it.


Honestly, while probably not more ambitious, those ideas are about ten times more tedious than his (not to mention that they require a whole different type of skills) because they involve completely reverse-engineering the Horizon engine with no tools to work with - while this project seems to start from scratch with a new build, which the authors would most likely be able to actually use. I can see the guy's point in using a new engine, and good luck to him.

It is however ridiculous that the community has so far been unable to find a decent engine to sufficiently warp into creating new MM successor games. I'm sure there's something publicly-available out there you could use as a platform without needing to code your own engine from a blank canvas, which is really a bloody herculean task.

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Postby Kristo » Sep 23 2009, 15:12

Holloweyee wrote:This project is for learning the language better then I do. This is not a rush project I want to take the time it need.

I'm going to be completely honest with you because I write C++ code for a living. You're never going to get anywhere with a project this large if you are still learning the language. C++ is difficult to use correctly. You're going to have a very hard time writing maintainable code on the scale of a MM game if you don't know what you're doing.

You say you've written games before. That's great. You've got a head start over most people who want to write a MM clone. But you're going to need a lot of experience with the language before you attempt this. I suggest you try writing Tic-Tac-Toe, Tetris, and Breakout clones using C++ before you come back to the MM project. Participate on www.stackoverflow.com . Learn all you can about C++ and various graphics libraries. Then you can think about attempting a project this large.

As Falagar said in MM6, "You have much to learn before you can deal with the likes of those monsters."
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Postby vladimir-maestro » Sep 23 2009, 21:03

The only adwise I can give - show us what you've got!
show us some of yours 2D\3D projects...
..or, if it is possible - try to code a simple 3D room, house or other place and use the same sprites from MM6-8, simple work with surface and clicing on items, chests etc.
---
If your work will have something unique and will reproduce the same mm6-8 engine - much more people will be interesting in your idea after seeing demos.

So make people to see something interesting and they wil react on it!

P.S.
about 2 weeks ago I was offering the same idea for the WOXII project, if they have no people to work with 3D monsters - do them in 2D ;)
You can contact me here:
maestro_mod@yahoo.com
---
Site about MODs: http://www.mmgames.ru
---
if you wish to upload some materials for this site - let me know.

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Postby Deadguy118 » Sep 23 2009, 23:31

You know, Might and Magic is the only game series I know that has a constant outpouring of overly-ambitious fan projects that will inevitably fail.
Back from the dead? Maybe.

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Postby Big Daddy Jim » Sep 24 2009, 12:26

Deadguy118 wrote:You know, Might and Magic is the only game series I know that has a constant outpouring of overly-ambitious fan projects that will inevitably fail.


I 'somewhat' agree with you. But remember that I have always 'delivered' on the game mods that I promised. And Vladamir and Matt Otter, as well. And I still have high hopes for the MMX project.

For what it is worth.

BDJ
"BDJ the Coding Wizard has moved out of the Coding Fortress, has retired from Might & Magic game modification, and now lives a peaceful life in Alto Lino, Republic de Panama.

http://www.mediafire.com/BDJs

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Postby Corlagon » Sep 24 2009, 17:57

Deadguy118 wrote:You know, Might and Magic is the only game series I know that has a constant outpouring of overly-ambitious fan projects that will inevitably fail.


That's not at all much of a bad thing, when you think about it. It says a lot about the complexity and depth of the games people are trying to duplicate.

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Postby Deadguy118 » Sep 24 2009, 22:38

Big Daddy Jim wrote:
Deadguy118 wrote:You know, Might and Magic is the only game series I know that has a constant outpouring of overly-ambitious fan projects that will inevitably fail.


I 'somewhat' agree with you. But remember that I have always 'delivered' on the game mods that I promised. And Vladamir and Matt Otter, as well. And I still have high hopes for the MMX project.

For what it is worth.

BDJ


Ah, well you and Vladamir in particular are the exceptions to the rule, but that's because your projects don't involve creating an entirely new game (But they are pretty dang close).

I am still relatively optimistic about M&M X, but MMT has been dead in the water for years now. Whoever is still working on that project should just put a bullet in it and give up.

Sad to say I know, but at this point do any of us actually think it will ever come out?
Back from the dead? Maybe.

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Postby motter28218 » Sep 24 2009, 23:38

Big Daddy Jim wrote:
Deadguy118 wrote:You know, Might and Magic is the only game series I know that has a constant outpouring of overly-ambitious fan projects that will inevitably fail.


I 'somewhat' agree with you. But remember that I have always 'delivered' on the game mods that I promised. And Vladamir and Matt Otter, as well. And I still have high hopes for the MMX project.

For what it is worth.

BDJ


I actually finished my mod except for the new monster sprites, I have no skill whatsoever at graphic design so I could realease the mod but it would be kinda weird as I've renamed some of the monster's but they are still the original sprites. Plus I did some changes in the .exe which I can't make available for download so again it can be played with the original .exe but some of the new classes will just be changed in name only.

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Postby GrayFace » Sep 25 2009, 11:58

motter28218 wrote:Plus I did some changes in the .exe which I can't make available for download

Why?
BTW, it's possible to do the dark/light path now in MMExtension. I'll probably release it today for MM6.

Deadguy118 wrote:I am still relatively optimistic about M&M X, but MMT has been dead in the water for years now. Whoever is still working on that project should just put a bullet in it and give up.

Sad to say I know, but at this point do any of us actually think it will ever come out?

Maybe. MMT was dead since the original developer left the project and until recently. Now there's a guy who made the new engine and I think he may deal with programming part.
And don't forget about MMTNO. They've almost got a working game.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.


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