About MM6 - 8 level formats

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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default8p
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About MM6 - 8 level formats

Postby default8p » May 12 2009, 16:03

I've been trying to extract level data from MM7 for a week or more now. Right now I'm working on the BLV files. I'm only interested in the structure and textures at the moment, so the light, object etc.. data isn't important for me. I've read how mm8leveleditor reads the data and also read some from game reverseengineering wiki (http://rewiki.regengedanken.de/wiki/.BLV)

I've managed to extract all the vertex and normals data properly although I'm kinda stuck on the UV map part at the moment. As I understand it the BLV format does not have 3 sided polygons, they can be 4 or more easily. So the UV maps on conversion (forgot to mention that part :P converting to .obj format for easier readability by other programs) get messed up.

Example:
Image

Some texture coordinates are good and some are weirdly distorted or totally just stripes. When I triangulate the polygons as is expected by most 3D formats I can see where the distortions are:

Image

I'm kinda new to all this 3D stuff, so I ask you guys for help. What am I doing wrong and how would I go about fixing this problem. Do I need to manually triangulate the polygons and calculate new UV coordinates before converting to another format?

Thanks :)

Edit: Nvm tried triangulating manually before conversion, still same distortion :(

Edit 2: Nevermind again :P for some reason I needed to add +1 to all V to get the right coordinates :\

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Postby motter28218 » May 13 2009, 20:47

Would you mind posting a tutorial on what you are doing? It sounds very interesting. I am very skilled with the MM8lvleditor but as far as what you're doing I didn't even know you could do that I can code and all that but the whole vertex stuff I'm lost, if you have the time, if not that's cool.

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default8p
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Postby default8p » May 14 2009, 7:55

I'm trying to convert .BLV files to .OBJ files, so they can easily be read and converted to other things (ultimately I'm trying to make a MM6-8 multiplayer game :P).

For example:
http://hot.ee/coo999/pyramidstuff-0514.jpg

Now I can convert it to another format so I can use it in the game engine.

Got all the .BLV files working (mm 6-8) now trying to understand the .ODM files. I'm using mm8leveleditor as reference but still don't understand many things about it :)

I don't know what kind of tutorial you are thinking about I just looked up the file structure in rewwiki and mm8leveleditor. :S

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Postby vladimir-maestro » May 14 2009, 12:25

He means (i guess) - how did you convert BLV into OBJ and then back to BLV...
Maybe it will be very usefull to create new areas in other 3D editors.
You can contact me here:
maestro_mod@yahoo.com
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Site about MODs: http://www.mmgames.ru
---
if you wish to upload some materials for this site - let me know.

default8p
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Postby default8p » May 14 2009, 12:50

Oh I didn't convert back, I don't understand the format that much. I'm converting for another engine not for mm :\

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vladimir-maestro
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Postby vladimir-maestro » May 14 2009, 14:08

I see...
But is it necesary to do so? Maybe to create something by your own?
Many people tryed to do online MM-style game...even me, but there were alot of other problems - such as quality, interest, atmosphere and so on...

In our days - do online game with the same quality as MM6-8 sounds strange.

It will be the game as a Realm Crafter engine with about 10-20 people online.

Users in ourdays are too nausy ans snobik in questions of gameplay and graphics. Only true fans will play it :(
---
I wanted to do a 2D flash online version of MM games...but there was a graphic problems - tones of work only for the 1 artist :S so i left this idea for a while...until better times.
You can contact me here:

maestro_mod@yahoo.com

---

Site about MODs: http://www.mmgames.ru

---

if you wish to upload some materials for this site - let me know.

default8p
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Postby default8p » May 14 2009, 14:23

I don't care if people like it or not, it's a nice project to learn from and if me and my friend can play it then it's a success. If I never complete it (probably won't) then no biggie ;) I don't see what I have to lose here :)

deadca7
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nice

Postby deadca7 » May 18 2009, 14:59

Does it support odm (world map files) too? and are there any chance that you are going to release the converter?

default8p
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Postby default8p » May 18 2009, 15:40

I have been able to convert both formats now, both structure and UV maps.. there are a couple of errors I'm not sure if they are my fault or are they actually made like that. I can post the source to the converter if you wish, maybe you can improve it or something :P Couple of mistakes with .ODM still and I haven't tried MM6 or MM8 format with ODM yet, works with BLV though.

Wrote it in C#

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vladimir-maestro
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Postby vladimir-maestro » May 18 2009, 21:07

Will be nice.
Maybe someone could do a back-converter into BLV or something like that.
You can contact me here:

maestro_mod@yahoo.com

---

Site about MODs: http://www.mmgames.ru

---

if you wish to upload some materials for this site - let me know.

deadca7
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Postby deadca7 » Dec 3 2009, 5:10

Could you please share your tool ?

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GreatEmerald
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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 3 2009, 15:26

Wow, that looks really cool. If it's in OBJ format, then it can be converted to Unreal BSP very easily, which would be awesome to have!

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Postby GrayFace » Dec 4 2009, 17:24

A converter from OBJ to BLV and to ODM model would be great. I think I've studied maps structure enough for this. I have no idea about OBJ or any other 3D Editors formats though, so I'd like to participate as a consultant. What do you think? And tell me more about the errors in conversion, please.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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tolich
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Postby tolich » Dec 4 2009, 18:06

@GrayFace: Can you public .ODM format specification at (http://rewiki.regengedanken.de/wiki/.ODM)?

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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 4 2009, 20:46

About OBJ -> BLV/ODM, it should be simple if you know BLV/ODM, since OBJ files are ASCII text that you can read with any text editor. Here's a guide about all the parameters in an OBJ file:
http://www.eg-models.de/formats/Format_Obj.html

Another widely used format is Stereo Litho STL, it's ASCII as well, and the format is here:
http://www.ennex.com/~fabbers/StL.asp

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GrayFace
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Postby GrayFace » Dec 5 2009, 1:22

They look too poor. A format with texture names and BSP nodes would be better.

Vladimir-maestro suggested Blender as a basis for map editor. It seems pretty programmable.

tolich, unlikely. I'd like to focus on other things.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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GreatEmerald
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Postby GreatEmerald » Dec 5 2009, 10:00

Hmm, then you may look at ASCII scene export ASE, though it's really complex:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:ASE_File_Format
http://www.modwiki.net/wiki/ASE_%28file_format%29
http://users.polytech.unice.fr/~buffa/c ... e/ase.html

Or even Unreal BSP itself:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:T3D_Brush
Although it's not something that can be opened by Blender directly right now, so it will require to be converted to OBJ by UnrealEd or external converters like this:
http://www.unrealroc.com/Converter.html
Or a Python script importer for Blender itself :)

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Postby GrayFace » Dec 5 2009, 23:26

Blender is a different approach. The idea with Blender is to make importer/exporter for MM maps and work all the way in Blender, making all needed editing tools inside Blender. At least I thought of that.
And another approach is to use some common format for converting to and from MM format. Then make a map editor based on Map Viewer.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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DrakeBD
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Postby DrakeBD » Dec 6 2009, 20:38

I realy like this idea specialy the tool i have PM'd you hopefully we can talk more about Hypergames2k8 supporting the tools creation

and maybe supporting your project a little

default8p
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Postby default8p » Dec 7 2009, 14:40

You can't just convert .OBJ to BLV or ODM it would miss a lot of data, I converted BLV/ODM to .OBJ only the structure part, room, door, event, spawn etc.. all other data I ignored because it was not necessary at this part, if you want a real editor you would have to write it from scratch to read all MM related data as well. Converting to BSP and then back would be a huge loss because BSP doesn't contain this information as well. Take a look at MM8Editor source (http://mm8leveleditor.sourceforge.net/) if you want a reference to the format and offsets, it helped me a lot. MM6 - 8 formats are all very similar only a few differences really. I focused more on getting the structure data from MM and putting it in another engine for a multiplayer remake, I successfully converted pyramid and the control center from MM6 to Ogre format for example, but as I said it will only have the structure data not spawns, lighting, objects, roomdata, doors etc.. because there is no way to save this into conventional 3D format, easier to just separate the structure and rest of the data into multiple files.


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