| Comments |
| evilp at 2009-05-29 07:03 wrote: |
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Heroes of Telara E3 09: Exclusive Debut Trailer
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-heroes-of/49817?r=1
http://www.gamerhome.net/bbs/attachments/month_0905/0905292008f25f75bed2696a80.jpg |
 | astral76minor at 2009-05-06 17:45 wrote: |
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| Certainly not a game to look forward to. This defeats the purpose of HOMM and looks like another spinoff. Definitely not Heroes 6. Keep waiting.... |
| rdeford at 2009-05-06 10:44 wrote: |
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| MMO, eh? No fan-made maps. Subscription fees. No TBS. Hummm... Not H6. |
| Angelspit at 2009-05-06 09:57 wrote: |
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Good find evilp, thanks!
Trion calling its game Heroes without JVC aboard, that's ironic. |
| evilp at 2009-05-06 09:48 wrote: |
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the game's name is.... Heroes of Telara
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/trions-heroes-of-telara-mmo-at-e3 |
| astral76minor at 2009-05-01 20:43 wrote: |
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Ideas and discussions about Heroes 6 are happening beyond the scope of this webpage. There may be a kindling fire of only a few people right now whom are about to make that first move and turn rumor into concrete fact. The truth is that we may not know until the day it is revealed. Being prepared for the future becomes a new hope and we never know who is listening. A little spark may become that which we desire....
Edited on Fri, May 01 2009, 20:45 by astral76minor |
| Kalah at 2009-05-01 18:30 wrote: |
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| Ideas and discussions about the future are always nice, but I don't think it's necessary to set up a separate Heroes 6 forum until we hear anything concrete. |
| astral76minor at 2009-05-01 18:09 wrote: |
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JSE hit it right on nail. There needs to be some kind of organization for all the wish list information, or else it will end up being jibberish.
Let us introduce a voting system later on. We'll narrow it down to the 10 best wishes and then create sub-forums for each topic/wish. Then the community can discuss each of the 10 wishes in more specific detail....
Edited on Fri, May 01 2009, 18:09 by astral76minor |
| JSE at 2009-05-01 12:21 wrote: |
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First of all, thank you very much for responding to our ideas, Kalah. I don't want to seem ungrateful or anything but now is still time to make a new forum (sub-fourm) out of it. This would allow us to organise our wishes and to discuss them instead of simply posting them in a row. A single thread containing all community wishes will soon be very inconvenient to read and will only be of limited help for developers of a possible new Heroes game.
Please give us a forum! By now, wishes for new games are much more important for Heroes fans than celebrating the "good old times". |
| Kalah at 2009-05-01 06:39 wrote: |
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| I'll open up a new discussion thread in the H5 forum. |
| JSE at 2009-05-01 03:13 wrote: |
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A wiki could be used in a later stage to flesh out certain concepts. As a wish list, however, a forum system or a similar system is much better suited in my opinion: It's much more accessible and allows for easy discussion of ideas.
Most wiki systems (like the popular MediaWiki) have awkward discussion functions. |
| ywhtptgtfo at 2009-05-01 00:03 wrote: |
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| It has to be something better than just a forum to attract substantial attention. Maybe... a moderated wiki that analyzes detailed aspects of each game. |
| JSE at 2009-04-30 21:36 wrote: |
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Technically the Round Table forums are an okay place for posting wishes for Heroes 6. The problem I see is that simply starting a couple of threads in the Heroes 5 forum or any other game specific forum would not only be out of place but also way too ordinary.
I understand that the implementation of a completely new software system for this matter is probably too much to ask for so I suggest the following approach:
1.) A new forum category called "Fan Wishes" or the like is created and preferably located at the top of the forum index. It contains forums for general aspects of Heroes 6 gameplay each like "Heroes 6: Factions" or "Heroes 6: Combat". While more detailed wishes should be posted in new threads, a collective (sticky) thread at the top of each forum can be used to post "quick wishes" (like "I want Genies").
2.) Some sort of button or permanent link to the wish forum category is put on the CH front page so that easy access is possible and to make occasional visitors aware of the new community activity.
What do you think? |
| rdeford at 2009-04-30 20:01 wrote: |
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@ astral76minor et al.
I agree with you that now is the time for optimism and activity. A wish-list is a great idea! If hundreds of us post wishes it will show the developers that there is a fan base that is alive and well, and interested in buying H6. Nothing, absolutely nothing, promotes game development funding like a hungry market. And the goal of market research is to find out what product will fill that market's needs. A wish-list would work in our favor both ways. In other words, if we want it, we have to start shouting from the rooftops, or we just aren't going to get it. And, as astral76minor says, if our community shows optimism and vigor in looking forward, instead of negative complaints about the past, we stand a better chance of being heard. Since a wish is not a complaint, a wish-list is a great way to go.
As for JVC, well, who can say anything for certain? He was the original Hero, true. And I love him for that. But what is he now? I was totally unimpressed with Trion's concepts and offerings. I think we need an interview with him to find out where his head is these days. What's that old saying? Be careful what you wish for...
Anyway, enough idle chatter. Where in the heck is that H6 wish-list? I have a few wishes ready to go. |
| Kalah at 2009-04-30 19:48 wrote: |
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I propose that the front page of Celestial Heavens hold a wishlist and a complaint section about all the Heroes games.
That's what the forums are for, dude. And although there have already been several such threads, feel free to make another one. :) |
| HellSpawn at 2009-04-30 18:53 wrote: |
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I also second astral76minor's idea.
Not only would it increase this site's activity, but it just might get the developer's attention.
I like the wish list idea. |
| JSE at 2009-04-30 18:44 wrote: |
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I second this. It's a great idea! It's also what the CH staff might be looking for in terms of site activity.
Let's start a large, well-structured wish list which is easily accessible from the front page.
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Speaking of activity: I'm thinking about setting up an online petition requesting JVC's return to M&M design. What do you guys think? |
| astral76minor at 2009-04-30 17:33 wrote: |
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Time and time again, the community of Heroes is known for hope. Consequently, we wish that our views for the next Heroes game will be considered and implemented. Now the community must find a way to make sure the developers hear us.
We no longer shall sit back and just wait for the game to hit the store shelves and then discover that our hope is lost. No more can we complain about future Heroes games without taking an active role in the development.
I propose that the front page of Celestial Heavens hold a wishlist and a complaint section about all the Heroes games. This will be used as viable information for the creation of the next Heroes game.
At some point in time, interviews will be held with the developers of the next Heroes title. We will review our credentials and submit the viable information from the wishlist and complaint section on the front page to the developers.
This seems like the only realistic method of improving the game. Somehow the community must confirm that we will be heard by the new developers. If at least 10 of our crucial new ideas get implemented into the rumored Heroes 6, then we have overcome the past. Perhaps our hopes will no longer be dreams of optimism. The fans, at least some of them, shall be heard. |
| Kalah at 2009-04-30 14:46 wrote: |
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| Trion 's first game, not Petroglyph's... learn some English, ya scurvy rat... :tongue: |
| ThunderTitan at 2009-04-29 03:14 wrote: |
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>It seems Trion have joined with Petroglyph for the making of their first game:<
1st MMO maybe... they already made a SW RTS and the woefully under-appreciated Universe at War... |
| JSE at 2009-04-28 23:11 wrote: |
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Of course NWC consisted of many other talented people among them also artists like Bonita Long-Hemsath and Phelan Sykes, and let's not forget about Rob King and Paul Romero whose music gave the Heroes games great mood and atmosphere.
But while the personnel changed quite a bit from King's Bounty to Heroes 1 and from Heroes 2 to 3, JVC remained in a leading design and directing position, overseeing the development of all games. Christian Vanover and David Mullich (who undoubtedly had a lot of influence later on) didn't work on Heroes game design until Heroes 3.
The original King's Bounty basically was a one-man design show: JVC was solely responsible for game design while Mark Caldwell and a few others did the coding and contributed the art. And I'd be highly surprised if anyone wants to deny that KB is a visionary masterpiece which eventually led to the highly succesful Heroes series; it's bursting with gameplay and is still awesome today.
Also Heroes 1, which is the single most important design step in the entire series and which gave it its characteristic gameplay, was mainly designed and created by JVC with some contributions from his wife (Debbie) and Phil Steinmeyer.
The same is true for the first two M&M RPGs, by the way: JVC designed them all by himself. They were extremely influential and not only paved the way for the following M&M games but helped to shape the face of computer role-playing in general.
I hope this is convincing proof that JVC is the person mainly responsible for the games we all love.
Edited on Tue, Apr 28 2009, 23:17 by JSE |
| Angelspit at 2009-04-28 20:47 wrote: |
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| *cough* Mark Caldwell *cough* |
| ywhtptgtfo at 2009-04-28 20:37 wrote: |
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JSE, I'd disagree. Other than JVC, there were many others who contributed to HoMM and M&M, notably Jeniffer (Maranthea) Bullard, Christian Vanover, and David Milluch. Just because JVC was the figurehead of NWC, it doesn't mean he is everything that made the franchise great.
Oh, and... HoMM 5 had some very subpar programmers and story-writers. |
| JSE at 2009-04-28 00:20 wrote: |
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vitirr,
why do you think that JVC wouldn't know how to bring the Heroes series (and the M&M series for that matter) back to its former glory? Because he is some years older? Because things didn't work out for him at two MMO companies?
These things don't matter at all!
What matters is that the original Heroes games are still being played despite their age. They are pure, timeless fun. What matters is that in a 2003 interview with CH, JVC showed immense understanding of the series as a whole and presented a game concept for Heroes 5 that would have undoubtedly resulted in a perfect Heroes game.
(Instead, of course, 3DO went bankrupt, and Nival got to do Heroes 5. They delivered a product that while not being a *bad* product per se was uninspired and little more than a 3D version of Heroes 3.)
The Heroes 5 disappointment clearly shows that an integral part was missing during the game's development: the original creator and his vision!
Heroes 4 already hinted at that: JVC was reportedly involved to a very small degree only, and the game suffered from many inconsistencies and overall imbalance. I personally prefer it to (Nival's) Heroes 5, but I can understand why quite a number of fans were disappointed by it as well.
Finally, M&M 9 is also a brilliant example for what happens if the original creator isn't involved.
I think these three cases are solid proof for my thesis: Only JVC can make M&M games the outstanding games they once were. |
| Kalah at 2009-04-27 12:19 wrote: |
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It seems Trion have joined with Petroglyph for the making of their first game:
http://gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23369 |
| vitirr at 2009-04-27 03:38 wrote: |
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I'm not sure if the M&M franchise will be able to recover with the strength of the times of HOMM3, MM7... (in my opinion H5 didn't help much for that purpose).
But I'm quite sure that JVC is not the way to achive that goal. JVC is now just an old glory, I don't think he has any interest in videogames anymore, and if he has, then his ideas are certainly not working. He has done nothing sice the end of the NWC days, in fact, we know that he did little in the last years of NWC. As far as I know he has been part of two companies and he has given up too soon in both cases (though the reality IMO is that he was FIRED).
I have a high respect for what he did, it was really incredible and I think we all thank him for that. But his time has passed, so JVC rest in peace, we will remember you. |
| CloudRiderX at 2009-04-26 15:06 wrote: |
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Hmm...Ubisoft gives Nival the boot, then JVC loses his position at Trion...
These events could shape into something really good if everyone makes the right moves. I've heard alot of rumors - everything from "JVC is the genius behind HoMM" to "JVC was a nusiance to the development team", and while I don't know the truth and probably never will, I believe its safe to say that his frustration with the rumored limits 3DO put on him could've had something to do with his attitude, and its also very likely that his leadership abilities and management skills helped NWC make Heroes what it was. Impossible to say for sure, but easy to speculate.
Go ahead Ubisoft - nothing's on the line here. Might as well see if you could add JVC to your team. It would at least revive some interest in the series for those who may not have been thrilled by Heroes V, -_- , and at the very worst, Ubisoft puts out another crappy heroes game. Not much to lose in my opinion. |
| JSE at 2009-04-24 22:07 wrote: |
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I agree, we should be optimistic. Instead of turning to similar games though, I decided to set up a Round Table poll regarding this discussion. :)
It can be found here:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10001 |
| astral76minor at 2009-04-24 16:28 wrote: |
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A little hopeful optimism instead of useless pessimism would be a logical move for the community. Give it some time. In 2010, Elemental - War of Magic debuts (they actually listen to the fans).
Keeping new titles confidential is a common marketing strategy, especially with the value of the American dollar.
Edited on Fri, Apr 24 2009, 18:03 by astral76minor |
| Angelspit at 2009-04-24 15:52 wrote: |
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(But our community can keep a secret, trust us AS)
I wouldn't know anything about that. |
| Pol at 2009-04-24 15:26 wrote: |
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That is not looking like a likely scenario. Although if we hadn't a spion in the Trion it's hard to say. :D
(But our community can keep a secret, trust us AS) |
| Angelspit at 2009-04-24 15:17 wrote: |
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| Maybe Trion used JVC's name to attract some media attention and paid him a load of monies to show up at the office. Getting as a startup is not easy. |
| mathfool at 2009-04-24 15:10 wrote: |
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JVC autographed some M&M trinkets for me back in the early 90s. I'd love to see him involved again with the franchise. MM7 was the last truly great M&M game for me since I prefer the party-based RPG. That was 10 years ago.
Edited on Fri, Apr 24 2009, 15:16 by mathfool |
| Kalah at 2009-04-24 13:53 wrote: |
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| But surely, that a co-founder and president leaves a company can't be good...? |
| ywhtptgtfo at 2009-04-24 11:41 wrote: |
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I am not sure if JVC's really that important. There were rumours from former NWC employees that he was a bigot and went against the design ideas of Maranthea and Gus during the development of Heroes 4 leading to the game's disastrous failure.
Heard he didn't play that big of a role in Heroes 3 either, which arguably was the crown jewel of the Heroes franchise. |
| Corlagon at 2009-04-24 11:02 wrote: |
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| I remember reading way back that Ubisoft did offer JVC a position to work on the design for Heroes V, but he refused for whatever reason. |
| JSE at 2009-04-24 00:57 wrote: |
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| You say "won't ever get to" -- the key question, however, is if he *wants* to. In that case it would only be reasonable for Ubisoft to hire him in a leading design position. |
| Deadguy118 at 2009-04-23 23:41 wrote: |
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| I'm sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure JVC won't ever get to touch the franchises he created again. What he should do is create a better, more awesome M&M knockoff so we don't have to rely on all these fan made projects for our First Person Party Based RPG fix. |
| astral76minor at 2009-04-23 21:42 wrote: |
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| Perhaps the "talented senior team" at Trion will covertly work on more titles in the JVC tradition. Or maybe, JVC has some personal work to be revealed. Frustration? Indeed. |
| JSE at 2009-04-23 21:27 wrote: |
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While I agree, Angelspit, that boredom or the need for work shouldn't be the basis for hiring a new designer, we are talking about the series' originator here and the person majorily responsible for the best Heroes and the best M&M games; and I strongly believe JVC isn't bored by his very successful and influential creation at all -- "frustrated" is the term I would use.
Many of us know that JVC wasn't given the creative freedom he wanted/needed while working for 3DO: They didn't give him the resources to work on Might and Magic Online (which was his favourite vision and which would have quite likely turned out to be a big hit) and rushed the development of New World's last two games (Heroes 4 and M&M 9).
When 3DO went bankrupt and sold the M&M rights, maybe JVC wasn't over the frutstration yet. Or maybe Ubisoft didn't make him an adequate offer; anything but a lead designer/lead director position would have been just silly.
Anyway -- this is history.
What's important at present however is: If there is the slightest chance of JVC being interested in working on M&M games again, Ubisoft should take it. Lots of fans of the original Heroes games have either lost interest or have lost heart in the current treatment of the series. If JVC was involved again, I'm sure many of them would return!
Apart from that, I think most of us would agree that JVC is the one person that simply knows best how to make a Heroes game. He shaped the series over its four most important stages (King's Bounty and Heroes 1 to 3) and I am absolutely sure he could deliver a top-notch Heroes game again. Many of us are still playing the NWC originals because they were and are so brilliant.
The question that remains of course is:
Is JVC interested? If he is, Ubisoft should make a smart move this time.
Edited on Thu, Apr 23 2009, 23:25 by JSE |
| Angelspit at 2009-04-23 20:08 wrote: |
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| It just sounds like JVC didn't get along with the folks at Trion, and would never be interested in a support role in a larger company like Ubisoft. I have a lot of respect for him, but I wouldn't want him to come back to Might and Magic because he is bored or in need of a job. |
| Donsta at 2009-04-23 19:50 wrote: |
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| Count me in as wanting Ubisoft to hire JVC. I'd be astounded if it happened. I just want it too much! |
| JSE at 2009-04-23 18:44 wrote: |
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I agree, UndeadHalfOrc, this is the opportunity for Ubisoft to resurrect Heroes and the entire Might and Magic game universe! If hired by Ubisoft, JVC could also finally develop Might and Magic Online -- which he wanted to do 10 years ago.
I only hope JVC doesn't think about retiring now. It's way too early!
Does anyone else think a petition to get JVC back to working on M&M games is a good idea? It could be sent to both Ubisoft and JVC. |
| Ethric at 2009-04-23 16:08 wrote: |
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| It does sound weird: if it's a growing company, how is it part of it's natural evolution to loose people? Sounds like a disagreance of some sort. |
| UndeadHalfOrc at 2009-04-23 15:16 wrote: |
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| Ubisoft should hire him. |
The word is currently spreading across the web that the former M&M and Heroes designer Jon Van Caneghem has left his role as President and Chief Creative Officer of Trion World Networks.