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MM7: CSSS party
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kucing
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CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 17 2007, 1:36    Post subject: MM7: CSSS party Reply with quote

Introduction
I have used PTCS, KMCS, RACS and PACS but I have never tried CSSS before. The CSSS party is basically the strongest party that I have ever played with. They have a killer heavy artillery capability although their melee is pretty weak. Of course they go with the dark side for maximum damage.

I put what I did here for your enjoyment (and in case you havenít tried it and want to do it).

Druid vs Cleric
Before creating that party I also considered DSSS but I am glad that I used CSSS. The cleric has the following advantages over druid:

  • Can cast dark spells: sharpmetal
  • GM regeneration
  • Protection from death/eradication spells
  • Grandmaster merchant
  • Master repair


Druid's advantage over cleric is it can cast elemental magic (not relevant since you have 3 sorcs and cleric can cast sharpmetal which hurts a lot more) and ability to create black pots (you can buy this in Pit or Celeste so it's irrelevant). Based on these evaluations, I began my journey.

Party composition
Dwarf Cleric
This guy is basically the one who should be alive when the others are dead. He is also responsible in making sure the others stay alive.

Why dwarf? No race actually has bonus on personality so as long as you donít pick goblin, itís fine. Dwarf is attractive since I can dump points to boost his endurance to 30. He can be a mini tank for the weak sorcerers.

He needs as many horseshoes you can give him to make up for many skill areas he needs to invest in.

Master spirit: not sure if I really need this, maybe expert spirit is sufficient since you can raise dead on temples
Expert mind: for remove fear only, again maybe I don't need this, I can just teleport back to temple for the cure
GM body: protection from magic, regeneration, power cure
GM merchant: maybe not that important if you buy only needed spells (I like to fill my spell books)
Expert chain
Expert shield
Master repair item: too lazy to go to shops smile
Master learning
Master meditation
GM dark: sharpmetal

Elf Sorc #1
Fire/air/dark sorc.

Master fire: meteor shower, fire aura, fireball
Master air: backup spells
GM dark
Master learning
Master meditation
GM identify item
Expert leather

Elf sorc #2
Air/earth/dark sorc.

GM air: fly, wizard eye, starburst, invisibility
Master earth: telekinesis, stone skin
GM dark
Master meditation
Master learning
Expert leather

Elf sorc #3
Fire/water/dark sorc.

GM water: town portal, lloyd's beacon
Master fire: backup spells
GM dark
Master meditation
Master learning
Expert leather


Spells notes
When I created the party, I never realized point blank sharpmetal has insane damage so I spent skill points on too many random magic skills. They are not completely wasted since they helped me deal with the monsters early in the game. If you are confident you can get to dark magic without spending skill points on offensive magic then feel free to do it. Itís going to be tough though!

The only dark spell you need is sharpmetal. Soul drinker is also very good but it is optional.

You may notice that I have mentioned Sharpmetal a few times in this post already. Well because that spell is so good, it deserves to be highlighted! I cleaned out mega dragonís lair in around a couple of minutes using that spell. At close range it is the strongest and most reliable offensive spell in the game.

Play style
Lack of melee hurts at the start of the game. So you should grab bows for everyone and try to keep some distance from the enemy. Fire aura helps a lot in increasing the damage.

Medusas are immune to magic, which is annoying since you canít sharpmetal them. However I have tried protection from magic, heroism, bless, haste, stone skin, regeneration and shield buffs to transform my weak sorcerers into melee capable fighters. They can actually clean up the tunnels to Eofol by beating up medusas! Alternatively you can just pass them.

The party is very simple to use after getting the dark magic. Just set sharpmetal as the default spell for everyone and run zig-zag to the enemy. When you get to point blank range, spam sharpmetal. If that monster group is still standing, run around until your characters have recovered. Do the sharpmetal again until the monsters are dead or you run out of mana. With protection from magic, my level 40 party can clean up the land of giants and titan stronghold easily. I think lower level (maybe 30) can do it already.

Another option is to cast invisibility first and then run to the opponent. This is so much safer but it takes more time and mana.

Conclusion
This party is unbelievable strong but it can be difficult for first timers. Comments are welcome.
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    Apeman
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 17 2007, 9:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

    As a tip for the sorcerers magic selection I would advice to grandmaster air for all of them. Sparks and Lightning bolt are deadly if you have more than one character casting them. Earth and Fire are not that great in my opinion. Of course one character with grandmaster water as soon as possible will make the game much more fun.
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    UndeadHalfOrc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 17 2007, 12:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

    For more fun when playing dark, i always clean out the Temple of Baa even though it's not required to do so. Nice reward (cloak) at the end.

    Priests of Baa are immune to Shrapmetal though, so beware smile
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    kucing
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 18 2007, 8:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Apeman wrote:
    As a tip for the sorcerers magic selection I would advice to grandmaster air for all of them. Sparks and Lightning bolt are deadly if you have more than one character casting them. Earth and Fire are not that great in my opinion. Of course one character with grandmaster water as soon as possible will make the game much more fun.

    Yeah but I suppose you won't need them that much if you have sharpmetal. smile

    UndeadHalfOrc wrote:
    Priests of Baa are immune to Shrapmetal though, so beware smile

    Fortunately not many monsters immune to dark magic: gog, medusa, cleric of dark, necromancer and blaster man. The first three are very easy for sorc to kill with melee if you buff them.
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    UndeadHalfOrc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 18 2007, 12:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

    You forgot Liches & Vampires, though it's unlikely you'll have many to kill when going dark.
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    kucing
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 18 2007, 12:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

    UndeadHalfOrc wrote:
    You forgot Liches & Vampires, though it's unlikely you'll have many to kill when going dark.

    I am 100% sure you can kill vampires and liches with sharpmetal since I cleared out a few areas that I probably shouldn't. Try it out. smile_teeth
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    HodgePodge
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 18 2007, 17:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

    kucing wrote:
    UndeadHalfOrc wrote:
    You forgot Liches & Vampires, though it's unlikely you'll have many to kill when going dark.

    I am 100% sure you can kill vampires and liches with sharpmetal since I cleared out a few areas that I probably shouldn't. Try it out. smile_teeth

    Yes, Shrapmetal works on living & undead alike.

    By the way, I'm playing my first all magic MM6 game (CSCS) and I'm finding it a great party combination. I was lucky to get an Artifact Mace early on, so that helped. But having an all magic party works better than I thought it would. I'm gonna give Druid, Sorcerer, Cleric, Sorcerer a try next time. big smile
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    dcinroc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 18 2007, 18:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I played a CSSC party through MMVII.

    They had it a little rough at the beginning, but kicked booty once I finished the Wizard quest. smile_teeth
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    HodgePodge
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 18 2007, 19:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dcinroc wrote:
    I played a CSSC party through MMVII.

    They had it a little rough at the beginning, but kicked booty once I finished the Wizard quest. smile_teeth

    I would like to try a CSSC party in MM7 too. I might use a Druid instead of one of the Clerics Ö one good thing about using a Druid in MM7 as compared to MM6. is that the Druid Promotion Quests in MM7 aren't dependent on the solstice or equinox time of month or the phase of the moon. And even though a Druid can't learn Light & Dark, having Self & Elemental Magic could make up for that.
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    UndeadHalfOrc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 18 2007, 20:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

    HodgePodge wrote:
    one good thing about using a Druid in MM7 as compared to MM6. is that the Druid Promotion Quests in MM7 aren't dependent on the solstice or equinox time of month or the phase of the moon.


    Good thing you never play the dark side then, because the final promotion quest (Warlock) it so freaking hard that it would make you WISH there was a solstice/equinox timed quest! lips wobbling

    And I found it annoying that for their first promotion, you have to complete the Cleric promotion first, and you have to cross a field filled with Wyverns.

    I replayed MM6 recently and personally with a little planning the thing about it being timed didn't bother me as much as the fact that you need to go to Silver Cove.
    The hardest promotions in MM6 (IMHO):
    - 1st Archer promotion. Requires you to beat a dungeon full of plate armor guys, and the dungeon itself is surrounded by tough enemies in a tough area.
    - 2nd Knight promotion. Requires you to beat a dungeon filled with death knights, many of them being Cuisinarts (strongest of their kind, insanely strong).
    My current game is CDSS though, so I didn't mind and did them later when I was stronger.
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    HodgePodge
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 19 2007, 1:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

    UndeadHalfOrc wrote:
    HodgePodge wrote:
    one good thing about using a Druid in MM7 as compared to MM6. is that the Druid Promotion Quests in MM7 aren't dependent on the solstice or equinox time of month or the phase of the moon.

    Good thing you never play the dark side then, because the final promotion quest (Warlock) it so freaking hard that it would make you WISH there was a solstice/equinox timed quest! lips wobbling

    And I found it annoying that for their first promotion, you have to complete the Cleric promotion first, and you have to cross a field filled with Wyverns.

    I replayed MM6 recently and personally with a little planning the thing about it being timed didn't bother me as much as the fact that you need to go to Silver Cove.
    The hardest promotions in MM6 (IMHO):
    - 1st Archer promotion. Requires you to beat a dungeon full of plate armor guys, and the dungeon itself is surrounded by tough enemies in a tough area.
    - 2nd Knight promotion. Requires you to beat a dungeon filled with death knights, many of them being Cuisinarts (strongest of their kind, insanely strong).
    My current game is CDSS though, so I didn't mind and did them later when I was stronger.

    I agree that the 1st Archer Promotion Quest in MM6 is a killer and the 2nd one is a breeze. The 1st Knight Promotion Quest is a breeze and the 2nd one is a killer. Ditto for the Sorcerer's 1st Quest (a breeze) and the 2nd to Archmage is probably the hardest promotion quest in MM6.

    But in MM7, I disagree that the 1st Druid Promotion Quest is that difficult and the 2nd Druid Promotion Quest (Dark Side) is easily completed. Both are a breeze with the Invisibility Spell. In the beginning part of MM7 (& MM6 too) I always have a Gate Master & a Wind Master hired. Then when I'm ready, I cast Invisibility and use my Wind Master to fly to the Druid Shrines to do the quest, then, if needed, I use my Gate Master to escape.

    The hardest part I found is having to do the 1st Cleric Promotion Quest before you can get to Evenmorn, but promoting Clerics & Sorcerers is my first priority in MM7.

    Even though I haven't played the Dark Path in MM7, I have gone into the Dragon Cave and gotten the eggs. With the Invisibility Spell, this quest is also a BREEZE! big smile
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    UndeadHalfOrc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 19 2007, 2:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

    But invisibility won't get you through the behemoths (tunnels are too narrow)
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    HodgePodge
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 19 2007, 4:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

    UndeadHalfOrc wrote:
    But invisibility won't get you through the behemoths (tunnels are too narrow)

    True, but usually the Behemoths can be avoided in the Eofol Tunnels. While the tunnels are too narrow for the Behemoths, they are also too narrow for the Behemoths to get through them to your party as well. And you can keep shooting arrows (or whatever) while they are stuck. Not in all cases though. Invisibility has been very helpful with getting through the Nighon & Eofol Tunnels and Thunderfist Mountain.

    I don't think NWC meant for it to be easy getting to Land of the Giants from Stone City and Nighon. Once there however, you can activate the Teleporter to Harmondale and get there safely every time. (Be sure to cast Invisibility on your party before you go through the Teleporter from the Harmondale side. )
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    dcinroc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 21 2007, 7:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    would like to try a CSSC party in MM7 too. I might use a Druid instead of one of the Clerics Ö one good thing about using a Druid in MM7 as compared to MM6. is that the Druid Promotion Quests in MM7 aren't dependent on the solstice or equinox time of month or the phase of the moon. And even though a Druid can't learn Light & Dark, having Self & Elemental Magic could make up for that.


    I considered a Druid myself, but opted for the second Cleric because...Druids are almost useless. No LM or DM and no GM magic.

    My Clerics bought all magics up to Master, but then GM'd LM, BM, and either SM or MM. All extra points went into BM and L/DM. Having the ability to cast two extra strength Power Cures per round made my guys pretty much unbeatable. I had BM and L/DM at 15+ for both Clerics.

    Plus, for elemental magic, a Druid just doesn't really add anything, since late in the game, all the monsters have good resistance to elemental magic. The Sorcerers can specialize (I chose FM/AM/EM for one and FM/AM/WM for the other). I double up on FM and AM because I think they are the most useful schools for offense (outside of L/DM).
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    HodgePodge
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 21 2007, 16:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dcinroc wrote:
    HodgePodge wrote:
    would like to try a CSSC party in MM7 too. I might use a Druid instead of one of the Clerics Ö one good thing about using a Druid in MM7 as compared to MM6, is that the Druid Promotion Quests in MM7 aren't dependent on the solstice or equinox time of month or the phase of the moon. And even though a Druid can't learn Light & Dark, having Self & Elemental Magic could make up for that.

    I considered a Druid myself, but opted for the second Cleric because...Druids are almost useless. No LM or DM and no GM magic.

    My Clerics bought all magics up to Master, but then GM'd LM, BM, and either SM or MM. All extra points went into BM and L/DM. Having the ability to cast two extra strength Power Cures per round made my guys pretty much unbeatable. I had BM and L/DM at 15+ for both Clerics.

    Plus, for elemental magic, a Druid just doesn't really add anything, since late in the game, all the monsters have good resistance to elemental magic. The Sorcerers can specialize (I chose FM/AM/EM for one and FM/AM/WM for the other). I double up on FM and AM because I think they are the most useful schools for offense (outside of L/DM).

    I've also 'considered' using a Druid but for the same reasons you've given here I also went with either a Cleric or Sorcerer. I haven't played an all magic party in MM7 yet, but when I'm ready, I'll probably rethink using a Druid at all. GM Alchemy & Meditation just isn't worth having GM Body, Mind, Spirt and GM Fire, Air, Water, Earth. Not to mention Light/Dark.
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    UndeadHalfOrc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 21 2007, 20:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dcinroc wrote:
    ...Druids are almost useless. No LM or DM and no GM magic.


    In my MM7 mod, Druids are allowed to GM all their magic, Rangers Master all their magic and Archers/Paladins can learn Light/Dark all the way up to master now. Fun to have Druids casting Incinerate, Power Cure and Lloyd's Beacon (they could in MM6, so why not?)
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    dcinroc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 28 2007, 20:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    In my MM7 mod, Druids are allowed to GM all their magic, Rangers Master all their magic and Archers/Paladins can learn Light/Dark all the way up to master now. Fun to have Druids casting Incinerate, Power Cure and Lloyd's Beacon (they could in MM6, so why not?)


    Yeah, I edited the Druid magic up to GM as well...then solo'd a Druid through MM7...it was a blast. smile_teeth

    The thing I like most about MM8 is the ability to choose the number of characters in your party. Although there is always the option of drowning "extra" party members at the start of MM7. devious
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    PhoenixReborn
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 29 2007, 2:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dcinroc wrote:
    Although there is always the option of drowning "extra" party members at the start of MM7. devious


    I hope you are playing the evil path if you use that option. devil
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    HodgePodge
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 30 2007, 19:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

    PhoenixReborn wrote:
    dcinroc wrote:
    Although there is always the option of drowning "extra" party members at the start of MM7. devious

    I hope you are playing the evil path if you use that option. devil

    Yeah, I wish the MM6-7 games gave the option of creating less than four characters or dismissing them. But I guess that improvement was solved in MM8.

    Editing your Druid to GM in all magics must have been fun; but did you also give your Druid Light & Dark Magic? Traveling around with three tombstones makes me feel odd, so I never solo in MM6 or MM7 games. I always play Light Path in MM7, so three tombstones just doesn't fit with my idea of playing Light. dontknow but that's just me.
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    UndeadHalfOrc
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    CH - MM7: CSSS partyCH - MM7: CSSS partyPosted: Sep 30 2007, 23:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

    HodgePodge wrote:

    Editing your Druid to GM in all magics must have been fun; but did you also give your Druid Light & Dark Magic?


    No, that would have been overdoing it . Paladins and Archers can learn Light or Dark up to Master, so it's good enough for me smile

    HodgePodge wrote:

    Traveling around with three tombstones makes me feel odd, so I never solo in MM6 or MM7 games. I always play Light Path in MM7, so three tombstones just doesn't fit with my idea of playing Light. dontknow but that's just me.


    My last game was with 3 characters (+ 1 tombstone) to make the game harder, but IMHO, editing the game data is a much funnier way of making the game harder than playing with fewer characters. More characters = more strategy. If the game is still too easy, I'll make the maps have more and tougher monsters while still keeping my 4 characters.
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