My Impressions of the H-V editor (Campaign editor now out)

[Anonymous]

I have gone through the entire tutorial except the actual testing of the map I created and I thought I would give my impressions. While I started with the map editor found in patch 1.4, I switched to the HOF about halfway through it.

First the Good:
This editor is much more powerful than the one found in Heroes IV allowing:
Maps that are visually more pleasing
Scripting of events previously not possible (example: removing of towns)
Hero portraits that are easily replaced and PWL portraits created by the mapmaker
The creature set is much improved (To have all of those dragons while making Dragon’s Fate)
It even allows the creation of new cut-scenes, but offers no instructions on how to do so

The Bad:
Much of the editor is not intuitive if you are trying to transition from the H-IV editor
Examples objects not organized in a manner I was accustomed to i.e. alphabetical arrangement of creature and not by town type. This would not be a problem but it does not appear that the user can rearrange them (a bad thing)
Editing of terrain is tiresome, I found I had to erase water and not just draw over it.
Having to command it to level terrain when placing objects as opposed to the automatic leveling found in H-IV.

I found the placement of many objects was unnecessarily difficult, I placed a bridge in the tutorial map and when I did a side view the pieces looked like a set of stairs after repeated attempts I just removed it and erased the river.

The Ugly and what’s needed:
Its power is its biggest downfall, when scripting I felt like I jumped back to the days of DOS after being spoiled by a menu driver editor. Scripting is definitely not for the amateur, having to manually retype each script will add days if not weeks to creating a complex map. Now UBI has said a more user friendly version will be released, let’s hope a giant jump to the past is made here without the loss of capability.

They need to allow us to create terrain brushes like we had in H-IV

Right now the creation of new groups is unnecessary as you do not place scripting on objects, but as part of the map properties. I hope they change that, in Dragon’s Fate I scripted several events on objects and easily moved the objects and scripts to later maps, as it is now you will have to manually retype those scripts on successive maps. (Yes the campaign creation mode is coming in v 1.5)

They need to add more in the way of terrain decorations and not all of them need to move, right now most if not all do move and create an unnecessary increase in system requirements similar to having too many volcanoes in H-IV.

Conclusion:
As much as I love many of the capabilities and the potential for great campaigns, in its present form there will be several of us mapmakers who can not/will not transition to H-V mapmaking. I say that with sorrow, not anger. I do not think I am going to live long enough to do all of the scripting involved to create a campaign I would be happy with and I am only in my f%$#ties. Now 3DO made several modifications to their editor making it more user friendly, I optimistically (or foolishly) believe that UBI rushed out the editor (partly due to the criticism of its not being included in the initial release of H-V) in its current form to spark the fire of user made maps, and is working diligently on a user friendly menu driven editor. Hopefully they realize many good maps will not be made with such a complex editor. I will of course continue to monitor the editor’s evolution and continue to ticker with it.

[Humakt]

You forgot to mention no scripts in multiplayer which is very bad decision on Nival's part.

I'd create maps for this game if the editor would have a lot better performance. The game works fine on my computer, but editor is whole different matter. It's very bad thing if even quarter of time goes to waiting for the editor to gain you up. Editing terrain is pain and the tools for it are rather unintuitive.

As it is now, I can't think of making map until they address the performance issue.

[omegaweix]

Indeed, one significant flaw (which was mentioned in several other threads... and the post above of mine) is the editor performance, therefore the lack of an animations on/off button appears very painful to me.
An option to reduce the graphics detail for the map editor beside the settings ingame would be nice too.
On large already decorated maps placing even a simple tree can really stretch the patience of the mapmaker!

In general i'm disappointed that we still have to wait for a major editor overhaul and nothing crucial changed with the first addon. How many expansions we'll have to buy until the editor doesn't look and feel like an beta version anymore?

[vulnevia]

If the homm5 map editor was a piece of paper, i'd use it in the bath room...

[jeff]

First I did forget multiplayer maps, because I don't play them, but I recognize their importance for the survival of the series. I had hoped that a more user friendly editor would have been released by now and perhaps that is what is taking patch 1.5 so long before its released. Hopefully the campaign feature will still be included in that patch. As far as using the fan mode for campaigns, I am against all fan modes (except the cheats) until the game has matured, no point in using something that the next patch inactivates. Anyway I'll comment again after 1.5, hopefully with good news. I am currently working on a sequel to Dragon's Fate and have a duel storyline one that supports H-V item set and one that supports the Equilibris 3.51 item set. However the only maps that have been made are for Equilibris.

[jeff]

Bump

As I said I would make another comment about the editor after the campaign capability was added. First off I want to thank UBI for adding that capability; it was too long in coming.

Now it seems to be very easy to add and remove maps from your campaign, and this is a good thing, as stated in the documentation “If you modified in the Map Editor any map already integrated in the campaign, you should select this map (mission) in the Campaign Editor, remove and add it again, in order to make it work properly in the campaign mode.” WTF you mean every time I make a slight adjustment to the terrain or a script I am going to have to remove the map and then reinsert it.

You can migrate a total of four heroes through your campaign, that’s a brilliant innovation. When I did Dragon’s Fate I had six characters and another four carryover variable heroes. It’s so much easier to have only four, and the story would have been a lot easier and shorter. Well so much for doing a Heroes V version of DF, I refuse to have any of my characters eliminated because of an under capable editor. However I must congratulate them for the further simplification “Spells and Artifacts cannot be transported by this way.” Ok how are they transported? I am sure your hero's spells and skills must transport with them (though I have no way of knowing for sure), but what of the artifacts? The documentation does not indicate any way of doing that. How do you keep artifacts from optional quests? I am sure you can add a script to give the heroes any artifacts that were gained by required quests. So are we restricted to having a linear game with only required quests and then add scripts later to award those artifacts in subsequent maps? What about quests that have multiple choices which might award a different artifact depending on your choice. The current campaign I am working on after you make a choice at the end of the first map, the next 5 maps all play differently, several quest are different, different artifacts are awarded, how I would I do a campaign like that with this editor. I guess they never looked at the H-IV editor. While it lacks many capabilities of the H-V editor, it has become apparent that if you want a complicated quest heavy RPG campaign, then H-IV is the one to choose. It is obvious that even though they bought it, UBI never bothered to look at what they got. This just further adds to my frustration and disappointment with UBI’s stewardship of the Heroes and Might and Magic franchises.

Having said all of that I do repeat my thanks for their releasing the campaign editor, as I am sure there are several people out there that will make good use of it. As much as I wanted to make H-V versions of DF and the one I am currently working on, that is just not going to happen now.