"Forums for the Might & Magic enthusiast"
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| Which race do you look at and think 'hahaha it's week 1 day 1 GG!' |
| Haven |
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10% |
[ 6 ] |
| Sylvan |
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8% |
[ 5 ] |
| Inferno |
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31% |
[ 18 ] |
| Dungeon |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
| Academy |
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28% |
[ 16 ] |
| Necropolis |
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8% |
[ 5 ] |
| Fortress |
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5% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 57 |
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| Elvin Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 27 Aug 2006 | | Posts: 5329 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:48 Post subject: |
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Sylvan doesn't have a great earlygame but heck you can build hunters and druids in week 1. Too bad it's so hard to upg hunters early...Ranged can disrupt things a bit unless you get Wyngaal. _________________ Let the good times roll. |
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| Jolly Joker Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 3484 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 17:59 Post subject: |
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val-gaav wrote:
Jolly Joker wrote:
The basic Training Grounds will allow only 7 training upgrades per week which is effectively killing the chance to use the initial starting money to train an army of marksmen. The Hall of Heroes will add to that limit - a good deal, but not overpoweringly (I think, at least).
Well it maybe because english is not my main language, but please elaborate .... Does this mean : 7 upgrades per week .... or 7 creatures upgraded per week ???...
If this is the second then it may actually work (at least for marksman), though I think Paladins will still be a major problem in late game ....
Anyway thanks for sharing this inside info it's really interesting
What I mean is that with the basic Training grounds you'll be able to train only 7 single units per week, for example, 7 peasants to Archers. |
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| val-gaav Peasant

| | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 81 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 18:04 Post subject: |
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Banedon wrote:
Well the Devils are weak but you do have another stack of them who are totally expendable and you can move wherever you want  Inferno's creatures have to be weak or the race would be imbalanced.
i totally disagree .... You almost never have the extra devil stack, because chances that you will find this one artifact is very low(you need ultimate gating). Unupgraded devil is mhmm ... to low on hp to be serious unit... it's in fact the worst from all 7 level in my opinion. Archedivls bonus ? they get a little hp and small statistic bonus... summon pitlord ? yeah it would be nice if it would not need the dead enemy stack .... before you can use it your devils will be dead. (I'm not sure if it needs a dead stack ? any patch changed that ? ).... anyway I'm sure that devils wins the contest for worst level 7 unit.
Quote:
[quote="Jolly Joker"][
What I mean is that with the basic Training grounds you'll be able to train only 7 single units per week, for example, 7 peasants to Archers.
thanks for clarification ... well it will work for the marksman rush that's for sure.... |
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| 86wyp Leprechaun

| | Joined: 28 Nov 2006 | | Posts: 30 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 18:07 Post subject: |
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From my exprience, the rank would be:
1. Necropolis
If one could creep fast in the first two weeks and play it right, this faction is almost unstopable in most maps. Unfortunately many couldn't.
2. Academy
Another great faction, and very fun to play.
3. Fortress
Like necropolis, this faction can be developed in either might-oriented way or magic-oriented way. I just happened to find that Erling with sorcery+enlightenment+light magic+destructive magic can be very strong.
4&5. Dungeon&Haven
Weak point is as obvious as strong point.
6. Inferno
Iron Maiden is almost the only thing that shines in Inferno.
7. Sylvan
There are so many ridiculous things in the faction: The wood cost, the avenger, the hero attributes, etc. |
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| ThunderTitan Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 9826 | | Location: Now/here |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 18:41 Post subject: |
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86wyp wrote:
7. Sylvan
There are so many ridiculous things in the faction: The wood cost, the avenger, the hero attributes, etc.
The hunters insane dmg if you use the right... the huge boost to dmg luck gives... _________________ Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves. — Henry Kissinger
Alt-0128: €
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| Caradoc Round Table Knight

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 1771 | | Location: Horseshoe Bay Texas |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 19:53 Post subject: |
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Jolly Joker wrote:
Well as I said, Haven Training and Skelly gathering has been changed for 2.1/1.5 - and rather effectively I may add. For Haven there will be a weekly limit of possible training upgrades. The basic Training Grounds will allow only 7 training upgrades per week which is effectively killing the chance to use the initial starting money to train an army of marksmen. The Hall of Heroes will add to that limit - a good deal, but not overpoweringly (I think, at least).
Seven does not sound like enough. With the relative weakness of the Counterstrike racial skill, it seem that Haven may now be at a disadvantage. I guess we'll have to wait and see. If it were my call, I think I'd have made the limit one week's growth, which would then scale with the creature level.
BTW, JJ: What else can you tell us about the contents of the patch? _________________ Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes. |
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| Shauku Pixie

 | | Joined: 15 Jul 2006 | | Posts: 149 | | Location: Finland |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 19:56 Post subject: |
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Statistically Inferno is CLEARLY the weakest. They have lowest overall attack rating (this is really weird), lowest HP, lowest overall defence and lastly lowest minimum damage. Their damage range is 400-818, which means a Bless will do them wonders. However this range doesn't help them one bit, as they are not heavy at learning light magic neither will bless be found in their guild often. So the huge damage range is again a negative thing.
However, they have a lot of hidden damage potential not counted there. Cerberi, Succubus Mistress and Pit Lord all have abilities to increase the damage output (Cerberi and Succubi dealing double the normal damage, Pit Lords possibly even more). And then they have the second highest initiative and they have fast walkers. And the racial ability gating to boost not only damage but HP as well.
But if i had to choose the weakest, Inferno would be my choise, the main reason being the annoying damage range. I guess it is as they are chaotic in nature, so they have it therefore. But I like to be able to get over those weaknesses... In case of Inferno, Mass Weakness is there to stay. |
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| ThunderTitan Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 9826 | | Location: Now/here |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 21:29 Post subject: |
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Shauku wrote:
And the racial ability gating to boost not only damage but HP as well.
But if i had to choose the weakest, Inferno would be my choise, the main reason being the annoying damage range.
Free creatures should make up for the dmg range pretty well imo. _________________ Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves. — Henry Kissinger
Alt-0128: €
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| lisqr Leprechaun

| | Joined: 22 Dec 2006 | | Posts: 10 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 1:15 Post subject: |
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ThunderTitan wrote:
Shauku wrote:
And the racial ability gating to boost not only damage but HP as well.
But if i had to choose the weakest, Inferno would be my choise, the main reason being the annoying damage range.
Free creatures should make up for the dmg range pretty well imo.
Also their racial doesn't require any building unlike most other races. |
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| sylvanllewelyn Pixie

| | Joined: 11 Jun 2006 | | Posts: 105 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 4:01 Post subject: |
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Sylvan is clearly the weakest. Everything just seems to be misplaced. They rely on initiative and speed, but the hero skills are defense followed by knowledge. Although everyone has their tanks and damage dealiers, for sylvan, damage and hitpoints are so seperated, even the idiot knows who to pick on (as in, not treants).
They suffer the same creature problems as dungeon, namely low numbers, but without a usable creeping creature until hunters, which costs too much wood and doesn't have enough hp to even fight other shooters. Blood furies can at least rush up to shooters, and warlords can blast flyers. Sprites get wiped out by slow melee with a random morale boast.
Druids you get way too late, and when you get it, they aren't even useful in large numbers (mages are a lot more dangerous). Whoever came up with the idea of a logarithmic scale to damage spells... mana feed is a joke, destructive magic on a low-spellpower hero is even funnier. Avenger is not even that amazing even if you do choose your enemy's creatures, because three skill points could've been spent somewhere else.
Which is a real shame, because I firmly believe that emerald dragons are by far the best level 7 creature. Plus their units feels so much like Asian gangsters. Level 1-4: prostitute, crack dealers holding knives, assassins and killers, old "big brother" (triad leader) with a walking stick... |
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| PhoenixReborn Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 24 May 2006 | | Posts: 2017 | | Location: US |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 4:16 Post subject: |
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Shauku wrote:
Statistically Inferno is CLEARLY the weakest. They have lowest overall attack rating (this is really weird), lowest HP, lowest overall defence and lastly lowest minimum damage.
And what about the most important stat initiative? Cerberi, Nightmares, and imps all have very good initiative. Nightmares can hit several times before they go down...even the succubi have decent initative. Admittedly the horned demons and pit lords are weak in initiative but who uses them? |
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| winterfate Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 26 Nov 2006 | | Posts: 6194 | | Location: Puerto Rico |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 4:27 Post subject: |
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Quote:
Sylvan is clearly the weakest. Everything just seems to be misplaced. They rely on initiative and speed, but the hero skills are defense followed by knowledge. Although everyone has their tanks and damage dealiers, for sylvan, damage and hitpoints are so seperated, even the idiot knows who to pick on (as in, not treants).
They suffer the same creature problems as dungeon, namely low numbers, but without a usable creeping creature until hunters, which costs too much wood and doesn't have enough hp to even fight other shooters. Blood furies can at least rush up to shooters, and warlords can blast flyers. Sprites get wiped out by slow melee with a random morale boast.
Druids you get way too late, and when you get it, they aren't even useful in large numbers (mages are a lot more dangerous). Whoever came up with the idea of a logarithmic scale to damage spells... mana feed is a joke, destructive magic on a low-spellpower hero is even funnier. Avenger is not even that amazing even if you do choose your enemy's creatures, because three skill points could've been spent somewhere else.
Which is a real shame, because I firmly believe that emerald dragons are by far the best level 7 creature. Plus their units feels so much like Asian gangsters. Level 1-4: prostitute, crack dealers holding knives, assassins and killers, old "big brother" (triad leader) with a walking stick...
Who dares say that Sylvan is weak?
It all depends in how you use them. Of course Hunters cost a lot of wood (I'm a Sylvan fanatic and I have to admit that if they were cheaper, they'd be overpowered), but then again, they hurt a LOT (when you upgrade, they become the most damaging level 3 unit in the game, AFAIK).
Low numbers? You make 7 Hunters per week (on par with Scouts/Assasins, which are marginally weaker than Hunters/Master Hunters). In a maxed out town, you can make 5 treants/week (that's actually broken, IMO).
And I meant no offense, but I get kind of tense when people talk negatively about Elves . _________________ The Round Table's birthday list!
Proud creator of Caladont 2.0!
You need to take the pain, learn from it and get back on that bike... - stefan
Sometimes the hearts most troubled make the sweetest melodies... - winterfate |
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| PhoenixReborn Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 24 May 2006 | | Posts: 2017 | | Location: US |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 4:29 Post subject: |
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sylvanllewelyn wrote:
Sylvan is clearly the weakest. Everything just seems to be misplaced. They rely on initiative and speed, but the hero skills are defense followed by knowledge. Although everyone has their tanks and damage dealiers, for sylvan, damage and hitpoints are so seperated, even the idiot knows who to pick on (as in, not treants).
Druids you get way too late, and when you get it, they aren't even useful in large numbers (mages are a lot more dangerous). Whoever came up with the idea of a logarithmic scale to damage spells... mana feed is a joke, destructive magic on a low-spellpower hero is even funnier. Avenger is not even that amazing even if you do choose your enemy's creatures, because three skill points could've been spent somewhere else.
Knowledge and destructive magic are intended for use with Imbue arrow which ties in nicely with Avenger. It's a skill combination that makes sense. I'm not sure what you mean about the treants, but the unicorns aren't bad damage dealers and they are pretty sturdy.
Doesn't the logarithim apply to the mage as well? In late game Druids shoot well and often get luck.
Any way I agree that emeralds are excellent level 7's, they are so fast. I just wish they had more hit points. |
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| Mytical Round Table Knight

 | | Joined: 07 Aug 2006 | | Posts: 3769 | | Location: Mytical's Dimension |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 5:25 Post subject: |
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Sylvan for me is way up there on the food chain, and the reason is overall balance. Their creatures almost all are in the top end (damage, hp, ect) of their tier and never at the low end. Sure some of them may not be the very top of the tier, but they always are in the top 3. Now add in Avenger and they can even top out over the others. Not only can it add damage to the creatures, but it can save Sylvan mana. Or better yet, those creatures that they face that is magically immune, they can still do a tremendous damage too. Now beginning of game the path for Sylvan is a bit rough but even ranged units can be taken down with sprites (they have a decent initiative and some decent speed, and once they reach the ranged units it is all over.) Sure they die like flies, but they repopulate just as fast. You move a bit slower then others until you have druids, but once you have both MH and druids, you can make up ground fast. _________________ Warning, may cause confusion, blindness, raising of eybrows, and insanity.  |
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| Shauku Pixie

 | | Joined: 15 Jul 2006 | | Posts: 149 | | Location: Finland |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 6:28 Post subject: |
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PhoenixReborn wrote:
Shauku wrote:
Statistically Inferno is CLEARLY the weakest. They have lowest overall attack rating (this is really weird), lowest HP, lowest overall defence and lastly lowest minimum damage.
And what about the most important stat initiative? Cerberi, Nightmares, and imps all have very good initiative. Nightmares can hit several times before they go down...even the succubi have decent initative. Admittedly the horned demons and pit lords are weak in initiative but who uses them?
Yep, they do have the second highest initiative, which counts. But they have the most stats that are lowest of all. Like HP, attack, defence, minimum damage. Thats too many for one faction IMO. I am not saying thay cannot compete, for they sure can. They have a lot of hidden potential, just to name few Succubus chain shot, multiple attack of Cerberus, great overall heroes, Vorpal Sword... those cannot be seen in the statistics. Neither can gating.
But I pointed out a weakness, lower stats. Everything is not about them, but the creatures can't take about any damage. And that i can understand. But why do they need to have the lowest attack rating too? That doesn't make sence. And the other part is the damage range, which is completely a negative thing. Haven is another faction which damage range where maximum is double of minimum, but they've got Bless written all over their face. Even the frigging Inquisitors have it.
Well, I do like Inferno very much, thats not it. Just giving some statistics.. They need to find their potential to come on top of other faction. Can be done, but to me it feels like they are starting as an underdog.
Oh, about Sylvan. They have a huge damage output. They are funny in a way, couse the faction is really "out of balance". The treants have 1/3 of the entire factions HP... Now thats insane. And I also am of the opinion that Emeralds are the best level 7.. With that initiative (and not counting the breath attack, thats double the damage) they can score the most damage from level 7. [/b] |
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