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Worst race in Heroes 5
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Which race do you look at and think 'hahaha it's week 1 day 1 GG!'
Haven
10%
 10%  [ 6 ]
Sylvan
8%
 8%  [ 5 ]
Inferno
31%
 31%  [ 18 ]
Dungeon
7%
 7%  [ 4 ]
Academy
28%
 28%  [ 16 ]
Necropolis
8%
 8%  [ 5 ]
Fortress
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 57

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aulfgar
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 7:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all of the towns are relatively balanced. The twon I like playing the least is Haven though... its just so boring.

Dungeon is not weak, it is a massivly nasty force on either side of the battle field. However Dungeon is really an endgame type Army like Academy, if you let them build up they will be very nasty but if you attack early you can often win early too.
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Jolly Joker
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 8:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee, people seem to have an obsession with ranged units.
I think it's a lot more fun to cripple or neutralize the opposing shooters and massacre them hand-to-hand than to kill them boringly, unpersonnally out of a distance. smile
If you are Inferno, that is. Probably nothing like a little maiming to lighten up an otherwise boring day.Ah, well, except maybe seen from the pov of those oh so subtle Succubi.
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Elvin
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 10:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jolly Joker wrote:

I think it's a lot more fun to cripple or neutralize the opposing shooters and massacre them hand-to-hand than to kill them boringly, unpersonnally out of a distance. smile


I wholeheartedly agree! For instance the image of warlords using rune of battlerage, attacking three or more units while the lightning rushes through them all each time is a very pleasing spectacle. devil No wonder I prefer melee classes in rpgs! smile_teeth

As a weakest faction maybe academy for now. An inferno with a frontal assault can outmaneuer it, haven still has crazy marksmen stacks, dungeon is quite good with artifact enhaning spells or not, sylvan has avenger which is overlooked and can cause havoc later in the game and necros which either early or late game they have a good stack of skellies. Maybe oversimplicated but my experience tells me academy is a bit inferior. It requires a successful MMR early or time to build up and make many-attribute arties. Which you'll have to change every little while to adjust to your enemies. Sylvan must change avenger too but it can manage better.
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Jolly Joker
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 10:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well as I said, Haven Training and Skelly gathering has been changed for 2.1/1.5 - and rather effectively I may add. For Haven there will be a weekly limit of possible training upgrades. The basic Training Grounds will allow only 7 training upgrades per week which is effectively killing the chance to use the initial starting money to train an army of marksmen. The Hall of Heroes will add to that limit - a good deal, but not overpoweringly (I think, at least).
The same is true for Necro. You won't be able to raise as much Skeletons as you like anymore, since your raising capacity will have a weekly limit. While that limit depends on Hero level, dwellings and so on it will be impossible to exceed a certain maximum, so that there won't be any insane skeleton gathering anymore. You could say that Skeletons got a maximum growth now, NOT depending on map size, stack sizes and so on which is a good thing, at least that's what I think.
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okrane
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 11:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds a little better.... still the balance relies on numbers mostly. Anyway, necro without their archers are pretty weak, so I hope the nerf isn't too strong...
when will we get the patch?
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Jolly Joker
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 11:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it seems there will be "enought", but it won't be possible anymore to exceed a certain number in any given time. Since somehow the hero level plays a role it shouldn't have an impact on campaigns, but on regular maps there will be a limit of what you can reasonably expect.
Patch 2.1 is definitely tested currently. I think they want to make sure this time the new patch won't bring about new bugs.
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RK
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 14:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

uh i really hate inferno early game cheapness with gating, their neutral encounters are virtually low risk affair. Add in Beleb with that FB Ballista I haven't really been challenged by Neutral stacks unlike some other faction that require tight micro to avoid casualty.
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val-gaav
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 15:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jolly Joker wrote:
The basic Training Grounds will allow only 7 training upgrades per week which is effectively killing the chance to use the initial starting money to train an army of marksmen. The Hall of Heroes will add to that limit - a good deal, but not overpoweringly (I think, at least).


Well it maybe because english is not my main language, but please elaborate .... Does this mean : 7 upgrades per week .... or 7 creatures upgraded per week ???...

If this is the second then it may actually work (at least for marksman), though I think Paladins will still be a major problem in late game ....

Anyway thanks for sharing this inside info it's really interesting smile
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Elvin
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 15:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, that would certainly leave money for training priests and the cap actually encourages that since training lesser tiers won't be as effective.
I hope the caps for each tier are different but one can only guess. At least things will be better now.
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Banedon
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 15:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really remarkable in my opinion how Inferno has four votes, tied with Academy. I mean I can understand why people would vote Academy, but Inferno...? Inferno has that mass Gating effect that's so very powerful and devastating. It allows Inferno to increase his army size by a tremendous amount late-game and for casulaty-free battles early. Odd, but to each his own.

The v1.5 change is a good one for Haven, not so good for Necropolis. I've yet to see truly stupendous Skeleton Archer stacks that cannot be neutralized in some way ([EDIT: Yes Confusion doesn't work on Skeletons - what was I thinking?], Deflect Missiles, sacrificing units to block them, etc) outside of the 4k Skeleton Archers in the campaigns. I personally don't think Necropolis needs that limit to be balanced, but then seeing how Necropolis gains power as the game progresses (at least until they run out of food) perhaps one is in order. Shouldn't be a low limit though. Haven's training getting capped is natural, otherwise there're always way too many Marksmen on the battlefield.

No one agrees with my assessment of Dungeon as weakest, but I'm all OK with that smile I find Dungeon's main problems stem from their abject difficulty at clearing neutrals early, when the Blood Furies die or the hero uses spell points. Later their power doubles and trebles and is totally ferocious before ebbing again, but I've found the other races can compensate with their superior farming capabilities. Oh well, it's just me.


Last edited by Banedon on Fri Jan 19, 16:34; edited 1 time in total
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val-gaav
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banedon wrote:
It's really remarkable in my opinion how Inferno has four votes, tied with Academy. I mean I can understand why people would vote Academy, but Inferno...? Inferno has that mass Gating effect that's so very powerful and devastating. It allows Inferno to increase his army size by a tremendous amount late-game and for casulaty-free battles early. Odd, but to each his own.


Well gating would be good bonus for hero who would have defense as his main atribute and no attack .... It's a first thing ... the second is that Infernal units are generally either medium or weak. Devils and their upgrade is a joke for the price you pay for them. The 6 level is a killer but low initiative + gating = game over before they move.
and still gatting is nice but other races have good bonuses too ... runes or warlock destruction specialization are in my book better then gatting ....

Quote:
I've yet to see truly stupendous Skeleton Archer stacks that cannot be neutralized in some way (Confusion, Deflect Missiles, sacrificing units to block them, etc) outside of the 4k Skeleton Archers in the campaigns. I personally don't think Necropolis needs that limit to be balanced, but then seeing how Necropolis gains power as the game progresses (at least until they run out of food) perhaps one is in order.

Well ImHO a limit will be ok as long is not too low ... and it is needed .... also necropolis is not that bad without the archers ... the thing is it would need to be able to catch +3 dragons early and with current ridiculous mercury and ore demand it's not possible.

Quote:

No one agrees with my assessment of Dungeon as weakest, but I'm all OK with that smile I find Dungeon's main problems stem from their abject difficulty at clearing neutrals early, when the Blood Furies die or the hero uses spell points.

Well it gets some work to get the trick rolling but dungeon is not that bad at the start. It's not the worst town ... personally if I where to choose I would say that either Academy or inferno is the weakest. It's hard to tell which of those two but other races are better and for me if there was no Daleb in inferno then clearly it would be the worst town.


Last edited by val-gaav on Fri Jan 19, 16:25; edited 1 time in total
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PhoenixReborn
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banedon wrote:
I mean I can understand why people would vote Academy, but Inferno...? Inferno has that mass Gating effect that's so very powerful and devastating.

Skeleton Archer stacks that cannot be neutralized in some way (Confusion, Deflect Missiles, sacrificing units to block them, etc)

Necropolis needs that limit to be balanced, but then seeing how Necropolis gains power as the game progresses (at least until they run out of food) perhaps one is in order.


The main advantage of inferno that I see is in assaulting castles because you can get inside the walls easier.

Confusion doesn't work on skeletons. You can't block a skeleton out because something else will be blocking you from blocking them. After all skeletons are the strength of the army. Deflect missile is nice if you have it.

Try playing against Necro on heroic on War of the Worlds...let me know what happens.
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Elvin
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banedon wrote:

No one agrees with my assessment of Dungeon as weakest, but I'm all OK with that smile I find Dungeon's main problems stem from their abject difficulty at clearing neutrals early, when the Blood Furies die or the hero uses spell points.


They are better than most against walkers and many in a row too as spells are not required. They have problems against ranged and there will be sacrifices if you plan on attacking them early. Except against ranged and very fast creatures the furies will rarely have casualties unless you can't handle them. But you can save mana just for these situations. Intelligence, arcane training and the obligatory secrets of destruction are a big boost in the first weeks and fairly easy to get.
No surprise I upg furies in day 2.
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Banedon
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well gating would be good bonus for hero who would have defense as his main atribute and no attack .... It's a first thing ... the second is that Infernal units are generally either medium or weak. Devils and their upgrade is a joke for the price you pay for them. The 6 level is a killer but low initiative + gating = game over before they move.


Well the Devils are weak but you do have another stack of them who are totally expendable and you can move wherever you want smile Inferno's creatures have to be weak or the race would be imbalanced.

Quote:
Well it gets some work to get the trick rolling but dungeon is not that bad at the start. It's not the worst town ... personally if I where to choose I would say that either Academy or inferno is the weakest. It's hard to tell which of those two but other races are better and for me if there was no Daleb in inferno then clearly it would be the worst town.


I find Dungeon and Sylvan to be the two races who has it hardest early, and hence they're the two weakest. Sylvan however has easy availability of Sprites as well as Ossir's 10+ Hunters, so I think they take the upper hand. Inferno of course has Deleb while Academy mages have more mana. They have an easier time early, that's for sure.

Quote:
Confusion doesn't work on skeletons. You can't block a skeleton out because something else will be blocking you from blocking them. After all skeletons are the strength of the army. Deflect missile is nice if you have it.


Yeah what was I thinking (edited out Confusion). Yup you won't be able to block them for a while, but then if you're taking half damage it isn't that bad while Mass Deflect Missiles is quite the killer spell here. I've never found Necropolis imbalanced, but then again I've never played War of the Worlds either.

Quote:
They are better than most against walkers and many in a row too as spells are not required. They have problems against ranged and there will be sacrifices if you plan on attacking them early. Except against ranged and very fast creatures the furies will rarely have casualties unless you can't handle them. But you can save mana just for these situations. Intelligence, arcane training and the obligatory secrets of destruction are a big boost in the first weeks and fairly easy to get.


Agreed, but there're a surprisingly large number of creatures that can kill some Blood Furies early. Marksmen would for Haven, Familiars might for Inferno, other Assassins / Blood Furies would for Dungeon, Sprites / War Dancers for Sylvan, Skeleton Archers for Necropolis and Master Gremlins for Academy. Oddly enough I find there to be at least some stacks against whom you are bound to lose Blood Furies early, and if you don't lose Blood Furies you must lose Assassins and some spell points. That's why I think Dungeon has a bad start and they, with Sylvan, are the two weakest races.
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PhoenixReborn
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5CH - Worst race in Heroes 5Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elvin wrote:
They [dungeon] are better than most against walkers and many in a row too as spells are not required.


I would have to disagree with this statement. No faction has trouble against walkers.

Academy=fire trap/gremlin/golem
Dwarves=skirmishers
Inferno=gating
Knight=marksmen
Necro=raise dead
Sylvan=wasp swarm

Or whatever strategy. When you add in the brain dead a.i. that will chase a single creature while your ranged hammer them it's no contest. Flying troops are more of a danger because they will go after your shooters even if a single creature is in range. I killed some rakshasa's with fire trap. Even higher level walkers aren't a threat to any faction.
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