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>> It's coming ... <<
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| Which race do you look at and think 'hahaha it's week 1 day 1 GG!' |
| Haven |
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10% |
[ 6 ] |
| Sylvan |
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8% |
[ 5 ] |
| Inferno |
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31% |
[ 18 ] |
| Dungeon |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
| Academy |
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28% |
[ 16 ] |
| Necropolis |
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8% |
[ 5 ] |
| Fortress |
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5% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 57 |
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| aulfgar Peasant

 | | Joined: 10 Dec 2006 | | Posts: 60 | | Location: On the other side of a Tesseract |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 7:22 Post subject: |
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I think all of the towns are relatively balanced. The twon I like playing the least is Haven though... its just so boring.
Dungeon is not weak, it is a massivly nasty force on either side of the battle field. However Dungeon is really an endgame type Army like Academy, if you let them build up they will be very nasty but if you attack early you can often win early too. _________________ There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand Binary and those that don't.
e^(pi*i) -1=0 |
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| Jolly Joker Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 3484 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 8:38 Post subject: |
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Gee, people seem to have an obsession with ranged units.
I think it's a lot more fun to cripple or neutralize the opposing shooters and massacre them hand-to-hand than to kill them boringly, unpersonnally out of a distance.
If you are Inferno, that is. Probably nothing like a little maiming to lighten up an otherwise boring day.Ah, well, except maybe seen from the pov of those oh so subtle Succubi. |
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| Elvin Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 27 Aug 2006 | | Posts: 5329 | |
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| Jolly Joker Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 3484 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 10:40 Post subject: |
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Well as I said, Haven Training and Skelly gathering has been changed for 2.1/1.5 - and rather effectively I may add. For Haven there will be a weekly limit of possible training upgrades. The basic Training Grounds will allow only 7 training upgrades per week which is effectively killing the chance to use the initial starting money to train an army of marksmen. The Hall of Heroes will add to that limit - a good deal, but not overpoweringly (I think, at least).
The same is true for Necro. You won't be able to raise as much Skeletons as you like anymore, since your raising capacity will have a weekly limit. While that limit depends on Hero level, dwellings and so on it will be impossible to exceed a certain maximum, so that there won't be any insane skeleton gathering anymore. You could say that Skeletons got a maximum growth now, NOT depending on map size, stack sizes and so on which is a good thing, at least that's what I think. |
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| okrane Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 01 Sep 2006 | | Posts: 1796 | | Location: Paris |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 11:00 Post subject: |
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Sounds a little better.... still the balance relies on numbers mostly. Anyway, necro without their archers are pretty weak, so I hope the nerf isn't too strong...
when will we get the patch? |
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| Jolly Joker Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 3484 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 11:11 Post subject: |
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Well, it seems there will be "enought", but it won't be possible anymore to exceed a certain number in any given time. Since somehow the hero level plays a role it shouldn't have an impact on campaigns, but on regular maps there will be a limit of what you can reasonably expect.
Patch 2.1 is definitely tested currently. I think they want to make sure this time the new patch won't bring about new bugs. |
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| RK Peasant

 | | Joined: 28 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 63 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 14:30 Post subject: |
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| uh i really hate inferno early game cheapness with gating, their neutral encounters are virtually low risk affair. Add in Beleb with that FB Ballista I haven't really been challenged by Neutral stacks unlike some other faction that require tight micro to avoid casualty. |
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| val-gaav Peasant

| | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 81 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 15:44 Post subject: |
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Jolly Joker wrote:
The basic Training Grounds will allow only 7 training upgrades per week which is effectively killing the chance to use the initial starting money to train an army of marksmen. The Hall of Heroes will add to that limit - a good deal, but not overpoweringly (I think, at least).
Well it maybe because english is not my main language, but please elaborate .... Does this mean : 7 upgrades per week .... or 7 creatures upgraded per week ???...
If this is the second then it may actually work (at least for marksman), though I think Paladins will still be a major problem in late game ....
Anyway thanks for sharing this inside info it's really interesting  |
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| Elvin Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 27 Aug 2006 | | Posts: 5329 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 15:50 Post subject: |
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Hmm, that would certainly leave money for training priests and the cap actually encourages that since training lesser tiers won't be as effective.
I hope the caps for each tier are different but one can only guess. At least things will be better now. _________________ Let the good times roll. |
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| Banedon Round Table Knight

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 1461 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 15:56 Post subject: |
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It's really remarkable in my opinion how Inferno has four votes, tied with Academy. I mean I can understand why people would vote Academy, but Inferno...? Inferno has that mass Gating effect that's so very powerful and devastating. It allows Inferno to increase his army size by a tremendous amount late-game and for casulaty-free battles early. Odd, but to each his own.
The v1.5 change is a good one for Haven, not so good for Necropolis. I've yet to see truly stupendous Skeleton Archer stacks that cannot be neutralized in some way ([EDIT: Yes Confusion doesn't work on Skeletons - what was I thinking?], Deflect Missiles, sacrificing units to block them, etc) outside of the 4k Skeleton Archers in the campaigns. I personally don't think Necropolis needs that limit to be balanced, but then seeing how Necropolis gains power as the game progresses (at least until they run out of food) perhaps one is in order. Shouldn't be a low limit though. Haven's training getting capped is natural, otherwise there're always way too many Marksmen on the battlefield.
No one agrees with my assessment of Dungeon as weakest, but I'm all OK with that I find Dungeon's main problems stem from their abject difficulty at clearing neutrals early, when the Blood Furies die or the hero uses spell points. Later their power doubles and trebles and is totally ferocious before ebbing again, but I've found the other races can compensate with their superior farming capabilities. Oh well, it's just me.
Last edited by Banedon on Fri Jan 19, 16:34; edited 1 time in total |
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| val-gaav Peasant

| | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 81 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:21 Post subject: |
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Banedon wrote:
It's really remarkable in my opinion how Inferno has four votes, tied with Academy. I mean I can understand why people would vote Academy, but Inferno...? Inferno has that mass Gating effect that's so very powerful and devastating. It allows Inferno to increase his army size by a tremendous amount late-game and for casulaty-free battles early. Odd, but to each his own.
Well gating would be good bonus for hero who would have defense as his main atribute and no attack .... It's a first thing ... the second is that Infernal units are generally either medium or weak. Devils and their upgrade is a joke for the price you pay for them. The 6 level is a killer but low initiative + gating = game over before they move.
and still gatting is nice but other races have good bonuses too ... runes or warlock destruction specialization are in my book better then gatting ....
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I've yet to see truly stupendous Skeleton Archer stacks that cannot be neutralized in some way (Confusion, Deflect Missiles, sacrificing units to block them, etc) outside of the 4k Skeleton Archers in the campaigns. I personally don't think Necropolis needs that limit to be balanced, but then seeing how Necropolis gains power as the game progresses (at least until they run out of food) perhaps one is in order.
Well ImHO a limit will be ok as long is not too low ... and it is needed .... also necropolis is not that bad without the archers ... the thing is it would need to be able to catch +3 dragons early and with current ridiculous mercury and ore demand it's not possible.
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No one agrees with my assessment of Dungeon as weakest, but I'm all OK with that  I find Dungeon's main problems stem from their abject difficulty at clearing neutrals early, when the Blood Furies die or the hero uses spell points.
Well it gets some work to get the trick rolling but dungeon is not that bad at the start. It's not the worst town ... personally if I where to choose I would say that either Academy or inferno is the weakest. It's hard to tell which of those two but other races are better and for me if there was no Daleb in inferno then clearly it would be the worst town.
Last edited by val-gaav on Fri Jan 19, 16:25; edited 1 time in total |
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| PhoenixReborn Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 24 May 2006 | | Posts: 2017 | | Location: US |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:23 Post subject: |
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Banedon wrote:
I mean I can understand why people would vote Academy, but Inferno...? Inferno has that mass Gating effect that's so very powerful and devastating.
Skeleton Archer stacks that cannot be neutralized in some way (Confusion, Deflect Missiles, sacrificing units to block them, etc)
Necropolis needs that limit to be balanced, but then seeing how Necropolis gains power as the game progresses (at least until they run out of food) perhaps one is in order.
The main advantage of inferno that I see is in assaulting castles because you can get inside the walls easier.
Confusion doesn't work on skeletons. You can't block a skeleton out because something else will be blocking you from blocking them. After all skeletons are the strength of the army. Deflect missile is nice if you have it.
Try playing against Necro on heroic on War of the Worlds...let me know what happens. |
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| Elvin Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 27 Aug 2006 | | Posts: 5329 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:30 Post subject: |
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Banedon wrote:
No one agrees with my assessment of Dungeon as weakest, but I'm all OK with that  I find Dungeon's main problems stem from their abject difficulty at clearing neutrals early, when the Blood Furies die or the hero uses spell points.
They are better than most against walkers and many in a row too as spells are not required. They have problems against ranged and there will be sacrifices if you plan on attacking them early. Except against ranged and very fast creatures the furies will rarely have casualties unless you can't handle them. But you can save mana just for these situations. Intelligence, arcane training and the obligatory secrets of destruction are a big boost in the first weeks and fairly easy to get.
No surprise I upg furies in day 2. _________________ Let the good times roll. |
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| Banedon Round Table Knight

 | | Joined: 06 Jan 2006 | | Posts: 1461 | |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:42 Post subject: |
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Well gating would be good bonus for hero who would have defense as his main atribute and no attack .... It's a first thing ... the second is that Infernal units are generally either medium or weak. Devils and their upgrade is a joke for the price you pay for them. The 6 level is a killer but low initiative + gating = game over before they move.
Well the Devils are weak but you do have another stack of them who are totally expendable and you can move wherever you want Inferno's creatures have to be weak or the race would be imbalanced.
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Well it gets some work to get the trick rolling but dungeon is not that bad at the start. It's not the worst town ... personally if I where to choose I would say that either Academy or inferno is the weakest. It's hard to tell which of those two but other races are better and for me if there was no Daleb in inferno then clearly it would be the worst town.
I find Dungeon and Sylvan to be the two races who has it hardest early, and hence they're the two weakest. Sylvan however has easy availability of Sprites as well as Ossir's 10+ Hunters, so I think they take the upper hand. Inferno of course has Deleb while Academy mages have more mana. They have an easier time early, that's for sure.
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Confusion doesn't work on skeletons. You can't block a skeleton out because something else will be blocking you from blocking them. After all skeletons are the strength of the army. Deflect missile is nice if you have it.
Yeah what was I thinking (edited out Confusion). Yup you won't be able to block them for a while, but then if you're taking half damage it isn't that bad while Mass Deflect Missiles is quite the killer spell here. I've never found Necropolis imbalanced, but then again I've never played War of the Worlds either.
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They are better than most against walkers and many in a row too as spells are not required. They have problems against ranged and there will be sacrifices if you plan on attacking them early. Except against ranged and very fast creatures the furies will rarely have casualties unless you can't handle them. But you can save mana just for these situations. Intelligence, arcane training and the obligatory secrets of destruction are a big boost in the first weeks and fairly easy to get.
Agreed, but there're a surprisingly large number of creatures that can kill some Blood Furies early. Marksmen would for Haven, Familiars might for Inferno, other Assassins / Blood Furies would for Dungeon, Sprites / War Dancers for Sylvan, Skeleton Archers for Necropolis and Master Gremlins for Academy. Oddly enough I find there to be at least some stacks against whom you are bound to lose Blood Furies early, and if you don't lose Blood Furies you must lose Assassins and some spell points. That's why I think Dungeon has a bad start and they, with Sylvan, are the two weakest races. |
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| PhoenixReborn Round Table Hero

 | | Joined: 24 May 2006 | | Posts: 2017 | | Location: US |
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CH - Worst race in Heroes 5 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 16:46 Post subject: |
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Elvin wrote:
They [dungeon] are better than most against walkers and many in a row too as spells are not required.
I would have to disagree with this statement. No faction has trouble against walkers.
Academy=fire trap/gremlin/golem
Dwarves=skirmishers
Inferno=gating
Knight=marksmen
Necro=raise dead
Sylvan=wasp swarm
Or whatever strategy. When you add in the brain dead a.i. that will chase a single creature while your ranged hammer them it's no contest. Flying troops are more of a danger because they will go after your shooters even if a single creature is in range. I killed some rakshasa's with fire trap. Even higher level walkers aren't a threat to any faction. |
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