Second Expansion officially announced

[Jolly Joker]

I just read in the news thread that the orcs won't be able to cast spells in combat.

Hmm. THat means no use for 5 of the 12 normal skills, no use for 1 of the four primary stats, and very little for another. Doesn't fit quite right with me.

I didn't read anything like that. If so "Orc Shaman" would be a rather strange unit - you'd think that was a spellcasting unit, right?

[Monteniger]

Hmm. THat means no use for 5 of the 12 normal skills, no use for 1 of the four primary stats, and very little for another. Doesn't fit quite right with me.

Maybe just units won't have magic and heroes will?

I didn't read anything like that. If so "Orc Shaman" would be a rather strange unit - you'd think that was a spellcasting unit, right?

Maybe it will sacrifice some units to ressurect others or smth... Magic is not an imperative.

[watcher83]

I think the hero won't be able to cast spell in combat, that doesn't mean that some units can't (like the shaman).

[PhoenixReborn]

I agree with what watcher83 said.

Here's the source:

Some new information from here.

Orc creature lineup:
level 1: goblin;
level 2: centaur (with horns);
level 3: orc warrior;
level 4: orc shaman;
level 5: orc warlord;
level 6: pao kai;
level 7: cyclops;

One of the orc town's special buildings adds bonus to Rage;
Orcs will be able to cast only adventure spells;

I got that from Eternor's post in the news thread.

So I see that as applying to the hero, the units could cast spells. Do you have different info?

[watcher83]

in h4 the barbarian couldn't cast any spells but the ogre mage could cast blood lust

[Agnus Dei]

In H4 the Barbarians also had 2 times bigger weekly creature growth than the others.

[Zamolxis]

I heard (but might be just a Russian forum rumour) that they have the ability to counter (at least partly) the magic.

Now help me understand this: how come a dumb orc, so dumb he cannot figure out the simplest lvl.1 spell for casting, has such a deep knowledge of the magic mechanism, that is able to counter the effect of some spells? I'd more expect a wizard to have such a skill...

The Wizards HAVE such a skill.

Yeah, I know they have (I've played this game before, remember? :p). It's my mistake though - as I was writing that at 3 AM - I meant sth else, but indeed I see now how it reads. A wizard has to gain that skill, and even then, of all the armies you have, the effect will only work on the army under that particular wizard. While if for the barbarians the magic resistance will be natural, or based just on a building in town (like in H4), then it would probably apply on your creatures, which makes their magic resistance superior to the wizards.

So, to get back, what I meant (again, only my fault for making myself misunderstood), was that I would more expect the wizards to have the ability to build a Magid Damper (or anything similar), to induce some sort of magic immunity in all allied creatures, than to have some barbarians able to do that. IMO Barbarians could have some basic knowledge of magic, but not enough to be able to counter more expert spell casters. For the rest, they should compensate through brute force.

Anyway, maybe we just are wasting time on this, as we actually have no idea how it'll work. I'd prefer not to debate it anymore untill we have more official information.

[Agnus Dei]

Something bugs me about the whole magic resistance. Orcs were created by the wizards as "shock troops" to counter demons so they probably have some sort of fire magic resistance. On the other hand, wizards would have probably been unable to control them without using some sort of mind control and magic.

[Monteniger]

wizards would have probably been unable to control them without using some sort of mind control and magic...

.
.. which in the end they become immune to,and broke free?

[ThunderTitan]

@Zam:

It's obvious, they're so stupid that they don't know magic is supposed to work on them... so it doesn't.

[okrane]

now I get it... it's an expansion... well... who cares... ?

[Mytical]

I'm taking a wait and see on this one. HoF was an improvement over the original, but I will wait to see price, feedback, and such before diving in. Twice bitten once shy and all that. I am hopeful this new expansion will be a huge step forward and manage to nix all the bugs. Since they made some cash they should take their time and iron out most of the issues before releasing. Even if it pushes the release date back a couple times. After all, if they win back the ones who have given up in frustration, then H 6 will be much more profitable. Money is a strong driving force.

[watcher83]

since I presume the orc hero class is barbarian he will have 4 att, 1 def, 0sp, 0kn; what is your opinion?

[Omega_Destroyer]

Seems reasonable. They might have 3 to both Attack and Defense to compensate for the almost complete inability to cast spells. Makes me wonder if they'll create new skills, seeing as how the Orcs will be out 5 options for development.

[Jolly Joker]

Does someone really think the orc heroes will make only direct attacks? Or have some meager ability like Mark of the Orc? Can't imagine that.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

since I presume the orc hero class is barbarian he will have 4 att, 1 def, 0sp, 0kn; what is your opinion?

You are probably right. I suspect that even though he won't have what they call spells he might have abilities they'll call "war cry", "bloodlust", or whatever that will esentially function like spells.

GOW

[goblinking]

One route Nival might decide to take is to offer the four classes of magic at a reasonable % - say 8%. They would not receive any of the regular secondary skills (such as mass spells, freezing/stunning etc.) but instead 2 or 3 special abilities that counter the magic for that school (like suppress light and dark for Wizard). Perhaps something like +15% resistance vs destructive or something. Or perhaps only one special, so they focus skill points elsewhere. That could be what Nival meant by orcs being able to disrupt enemy spells. Otherwise, we are looking at having 6 skills at a 2% chance (4 magics, sorcery, and probably enlightenment).

On another note, if the rumour about orcs stats being decreased if they don't attack is true, then I thing war machines with catapult speciality would be a compulsory pick. With only one flyer, no teleportation spell and maybe a couple of shooters, they will have a tough time in castle assaults. What does everyone else think?

[Jolly Joker]

I think you have some good points there.

[Elvin]

But if they had zero magic stats what would be the point of using adventure spells? It would look funny if they had to get a major knowledge artifact to cast town portal

[Apocalypse]

Maybe the Orcs should have Spellpower and Knowledge, but make use of it. Say, they have special abilities that increase with Spellpower (much like spells) and certain things increase with Knowledge (like Wizard's mini artifacts). This way the 0 mana for adventure spell won't be a problem, and those artifacts/map object that give SP and KN won't be useless for the orcs. Also, sorcery could work for the orcs' special abilities (like the Runes or something, who knows?) that, as I said above, increase with Spellpower (though these abilities won't cost any mana, and thus Arcane Training and such will be useless)